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exactly
plus, he blocks Waiters' game
Trade Irving. Seriously, trade him while he still has some value. Teams like the Knicks and the Lakers will give up more than he is worth because of his flashy game and recognizable name. Get a whole bunch of picks and more cap space out of him and plan for the future.
exactly
plus, he blocks Waiters' game
This might come back to bite me, but they should probably get Jabari. Since they're the Cavs he's probably the hardest out of the 3 to up.
lol Lakers.
Crazy luck. They need to move Waiters get a pure shooter and a elite defender Wiggins or Embiid probably make the most sense but maybe they draft Parker hoping the Duke connection keeps Kyrie?
still dont see a le unless Lebron returns. Props to Cleveland fans exciting drafts in both NFL and NBA.
DMC was hoping for a top 3 pick but did not expect it and I am still not sold on any of these guys.
I would of traded #1 straight up for Anthony Davis. None of these dudes are true superstars.
Gordon, Smart Vonleh Randle could easily end up better than Parker/wiggins/Embiid
Not a Durant/Lebron or even unibrow in this bunch I see Paul George/Hibbert ceiling.
1.) Kevin Love wouldn't sign an extension in Cleveland in a million years.
2.) If when the smoke clears Kyrie Irving is still the best player on this team, they're not winning anything.
That's pretty obvious, considering Davis is the best player to enter the league since Durant. What years in recent history other than 2003 and 2007 would you not want to draft Davis #1?
Amazing how this draft has suddenly become "overrated" to Lakerfan after getting a ty pick..... kind of like how the NBA has suddenly become a " ty product" to Lakerfan now that the Lakers suck
Nope. Go back check my history son.Amazing how this draft has suddenly become "overrated" to Lakerfan after getting a ty pick..... kind of like how the NBA has suddenly become a " ty product" to Lakerfan now that the Lakers suck
Can find posts where I said there was no Lebron or Durant nor even Adavis or Blake. Way before the draft.
If you want to troll me, I was irritated we did not move up. I wont even try to lie about it.
This draft is deep. and I think it it is overrated only the top players imho.
I was on the Jabari bandwaggon early and Wiggins late but the more I listen to them talk, the more highlights I watch I just dont see a "game changer".
Is it possible that the more pen NBA may prove to allow wiggins to ball? Absolutely possible. But Inever wondered that about Durant (lebron did not go to college) or even Melo.
I just dont see superstars I see About 3 all-star locks and 5-6 potential all-stars. No way this draft produces 3 HOF'ers like the Lebron/Wade/Melo draft.
The NBa is not ty same as it ever was a star league and we lack stars ...
This might sound crazy or Spurfan hype but not sure I would trade anyone in this draft Except MAYBE a healthy
Embiid or Wiggins for Kiwi Leonard to be honest.
I think there are some very good players but is ANYONE here sure any of them will be better especially as two players better than KL?
Only reason I would take those two over him is because they have more trade value.
As for my team I think Smart, Randle, Vonleh, Gordon will be solid players wont change our fortunes
But we aint winning for 2-4 years minimum. Even if they got Melo a team of Kobe/Melo/smart even if they kept Pau ...
is NOT beating Lebron or OKC next year ...or even SA/Clips.
C'mon KK81, you are now underrating the draft. Sure the draft isn't going to produce like the 2003 draft with Lebron/Wade/Melo/Bosh or the 84 draft with Hakeem, Jordan, Barkley, and Stockton, but it is deep, and there are definitely going to be more than 2 players who will be better than Kawhi, and there really isn't any doubts about it.
If Wiggins can ever learn to be aggressive, he'd be a ridiculously good player in the area of a prime T-Mac or Carter, which is a pretty darn high ceiling.
People liken Embiid to Hakeem, but I see a Ibaka 2.0
Then there is Parker as Melo lite, Exum, and a host of other solid players.
It's a great draft, just not worth tanking for because there are so many very good players, but no great players, so getting a 1 vs. a 3, or a 4 vs. a 6 isn't that big of a difference.
How am I underrating? I said it was deep. You agree there is no sure- fire hof you say maybe with aggression he can be a under-achiever like TMac? That is not a franchise changer I hope the kid proves me wrong but I see more Paul George than TMac. A all- star SF that plays great defense or Iggy. Neither one can save the Lakers. If we missed on Anthony Davis, Blake or Durant I would be crushed. I already admitted being disappointed my ty season won't end with the top pick. But this is not the LeBron draft.
A prime TMac was a franchise changer. The fact that he couldn't win with crappy teams and was injured often doesn't mean much in terms of him underachieving. Remember Kobe in 05-07? He was in the same class as TMac, AI and Carter because the Lakers were losing, and when he had a great team with him, he was all of a sudden thrusted to the top 10 conversations, and is now finally settled in the top 15 conversations. Was 2008 to 2010 Kobe > 2005 to 2007 Kobe? No! Did 2005 to 2007 Kobe underachieve? No! But he did have a better team because of the work of management, and that shouldn't make him less of a franchise changer.
The same applies to TMac.
And saying the top player in this class will turn out to be Paul George or Iggy is underrating it. I see TMac and Carter level players.
Another way you underrated the class is saying how you wouldn't trade anyone other than the top 2 for Kawhi. I beg to differ.
You're right... I see Jabari Parker and Wiggins as all hype. They're going to be good players, but they're not the players that put you over the top or a player that you build your team around. They just don't have that mentality. Of course, a lot can change depending on the situation - If Jabari Parker was stuck in the Milwaukee Bucks for him to take as many shots as he'd like, he can test his ability to close games. But given the crappy locker room situation, it really just depends on a case by case basis. Either way, Wiggins and Parker have great raw potential, but they're not the next stars to put their team over the top. Neither are any other players entering this year's draft.
Be real. Nobody is going to trade an All Star on a rookie contract.
Who would play defense for them ?
unless they have a ton of expiring contracts to unload... but the cavs don't. I think Luol Deng is paid more than half the team combined lol
u on crack to be trading KL for any clown in that draft class, kawhi is probably playin at a high level now then waiting for some rookies to make the adjustment to the nba and panning out...
spurs are in win mode now, if its a rebuild...then im not even sure if its the correct move to trade kawhi...
is kawhi a franchise player? we never know cause his never been given the opportunity to go hero mode...but u dont trade a 2 way player for some unproven product
as for the league being a star league, league is made up of 450 players, theres at least 100-150 players who have no business being in the league, with the build of superteams and , diluting talents on teams and spread around the league forcing low tier players into bigger roles posting up empty stats...
That's unfair to say though... it's players that have the opportunities to post up empty stats that can give them confidence and boost them to the next level. Steph Curry, Eric Bledsoe, and Goran Dragic to name a few.
I am just harder on "superstars" I suppose. Of course you bring up Kobe, what does he have to do with this conversation? TMAC has some bad luck (Hill Yao injuries) sure, but doesnt change the fact he played with VC, YAo, Artest (IIRC) and did not win . heck he did not win a playoff series which all the other players you mentioned have as #1 option. No rings OK, players better than prime TMAC are ringless too but find me one star TMAC's level or better without a first round victory on their resume.
And all that being said I do not see even a TMAC. Wiggins reminds me of PG, Parker a bit of Pierce and if he is lucky then that would be amazing if he has 75% of the career of Pierce. Randle reminds me of David West with a dash of Blake's ball handling. Embiid a more athletic Hibbert. If they all meet those comparisons that is a very good draft. Not a great one and no franchise changer imho.
For example i dont even see harden as a franchise changer (Dwight when healthy, yes) and others killed me for it (especially Rox fans) they added Dwight to Harden and he still could not lead the Rox past the Blazers, non franchise changer in my book. Similar to TMAC.
I guess I am a "spoiled" Laker fan. Growing up watching Magic, James Kareem etc. I have very high standards for franchise players.
I brought up Kobe because he was the best in illustrating the concept of teams over individuals. You put him in a good team, he rings as a second option/equal. You put him on a bad team in his absolute prime, he struggles to make the playoffs. Same applies to every single other player in the history of the league.
As for TMac, he played with Carter before he broke through. That's like saying late 90s Dirk is the same as mid 00's Dirk, those are two different players. Yao got injured a lot, and Artest? Please. He was a 3rd or 4th option on a championship team, and you are expecting him to do what with TMac as the 2nd best player? Again, using the Kobe analogy, if he had a team like the 05-07 Lakers for his entire career, he wouldn't make it out of the 1st round at all throughout his entire career either, does that make Kobe any less of a player?
Paul George, when he has his mind set right and with the right coaching, can be a TMac level player. George is better defensively, and obviously not even close in terms of offense to TMac, but his overall impact on a team could perhaps one day approach TMac.
And if Parker can be like Pierce, he'd be a franchise player. Did you forget how Pierce destroyed the Lakers in 08? You put Pierce on a good team, he gets multiple championships, easy. The dude is clutch, has a huge repertoire of moves. He's like a wing version of Duncan.
And David West with Blake's ball handling is not good enough for you? You are talking about a borderline all star with a surefire all star trait.
Embiid is raw now, but I see him being a big Ibaka, which is really saying something as he can just dominate defensively. Embiid can possibly be what Oden was supposed to be.
Harden could be a franchise player if he plays some defense. Dwight already changed two franchises (Orlando for the better, Lakers for the worse), and he is now broken and lost a little of his athleticism, he would have to either regain that athleticism or work on other parts of his game (but given his brain, I doubt he can improve his game).
Come on man, Magic, Kareem and Worthy had each other and Riley. You stick them individually on crap franchises like the Clippers, they would have won a grand total of 0 championships between them (well, Kareem would have one with the Bucks).
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