I Hope I Am Wrong: But Spurs 13/14 = Utah Jazz 97/98

[Kidd K]

I am sorry but a few flaws in there, Duncan got there six times but won 4-5 times? And went through Ming? He never met Ming in the playoffs! I know you must be tired and typing and made sense on alot but those two there were way off.

I'm including this season when I say Duncan got there six times and won 4-5 times. We're not losing to OKC and we have a strong chance at a le. I'm not tired at all.

[Sean Cagney]

I'm including this season when I say Duncan got there six times and won 4-5 times. We're not losing to OKC and we have a strong chance at a le. I'm not tired at all.

Okay if you mean this season I can see that, it would be winning 5 out of 6 times then! Because IMO this year they would win if they made it. Ming though they never met in the playoffs, Rockets were not that great at the time and never got out of the first round.

BTW he has to get to the finals this year to be there 6 times, we still have 2 games left to do that! Lets not get ahead here and let the Spurs focus on their business

[Prose]

[Arcadian]

Naaaaaahhh....It's a somewhat interesting comparison, but it's way too simplistic to think they are direct analogs.

The main difference is, Spurs are winning this .

Edit: That and, I don't recall the 97 Finals being a 7-game epic thriller where the team that should have won lost.

[Prose]

Spurs have more athletic perimeter players than the jazz ever did then. Plus in think spurs are a litter younger as a whole than them and the leagues rules have changed a bit to favor jump shooters since then.

[Prose]

Chalmers, Wade, Allen, James, Bosh is the only lineup that the Heat could presumably throw at the Spurs for which SAS will not have an easy solution defensively.

spurs could match with this line up...1.parker/mills 2.green 3.manu 4.leonard/Diaw 5.duncan/splitter

[G-Dawgg]

I see some similarities.. Sloan played a flex/motion offense. Popovich adopted Jerry Sloan's motion type offense.

[Kidd K]

Okay if you mean this season I can see that, it would be winning 5 out of 6 times then! Because IMO this year they would win if they made it. Ming though they never met in the playoffs, Rockets were not that great at the time and never got out of the first round.

BTW he has to get to the finals this year to be there 6 times, we still have 2 games left to do that! Lets not get ahead here and let the Spurs focus on their business

We'll get there. OKC only beat us before because of atrocious officiating and stellar play by a player they don't have anymore. Westbrook has never played us well enough to make up for it either

[Malik Hairston]

OP has been way off on his takes since the first week of the playoffs, he's trying to cover his bases and take different angles, tbh, taking the "hater" route..

[pgardn]

History determines the outcome of games that have not been played.

A common theme on ST and in movies. The desperation to predict future results is so strong, , black cat...

[MaNu4Tres]

Spurstalk is just not the same anymore.

[Purch]

Jazz fan here.

This is an absolutely re ed thread. By makings this thread you're completley discrediting the fact that the Spurs have an up an coming young star on their roster.

[313]

Such a stupid comparison.

[Jimcs50]

Bulls> Heat

[hitmantb]

Jordan never took more than 6 games to win any of his finals, Jazz for all intents and purposes were the toughest opponents they faced with the possible exception of Suns. Jordan's teams were also extremely stacked, four all-stars during the first repeat, Jordan/Pippen/Rodman for the second.

It is also not fair to compare Malone's situation vs Duncan's, Malone did not get drafted into a 59-wins team that only went into the lottery due to injuries. Malone did not have a GOAT coach/organization that built a big three around him. Championship is honestly a team thing. If LeBron stayed in Cleveland and never won a le, he would be ranked where KG/Dirk is. But now he is tied with Duncan with 4 MVP + 2FMVP vs 2 MVP + 3 FMVP and will most likely exceed him. All I am saying is true fans of the game should not compare with number of championships alone, would you rank Parker ahead of Nash, Kobe ahead of Duncan?

Now obviously the gap between Bulls/Jazz is greater than Heat/Spurs, but the comparison is legit. The game's biggest star, destined for a three-peat, against a past-the-prime team desperately trying to make one last swing in the era of super teams and fought all the way back after losing in the previous year. All the league has to do is keep games close until the final minutes and LeBron's individual talent will win.

[Johnny RIngo]

It is also not fair to compare Malone's situation vs Duncan's, Malone did not get drafted into a 59-wins team that only went into the lottery due to injuries. Malone did not have a GOAT coach/organization that built a big three around him. Championship is honestly a team thing. If LeBron stayed in Cleveland and never won a le, he would be ranked where KG/Dirk is. But now he is tied with Duncan with 4 MVP + 2FMVP vs 2 MVP + 3 FMVP and will most likely exceed him. All I am saying is true fans of the game should not compare with number of championships alone, would you rank Parker ahead of Nash, Kobe ahead of Duncan?

Nobody's ranking Duncan ahead of Malone because of rings. We're putting him ahead because Malone's a poor playoff performer. His performance sees a huge drop from regular season to post-season. Duncan, on the other hand, is remarkably consistent from RS(regular season) to PS(post-season). Throw in Duncan's superior defense and Malone doesn't really have an argument. Karl did have some amazing longevity though, which is probably the only thing he had in his favor. Even then, TD's looked pretty good in his old age as well.

24.6 - Duncan PER RS
24.7 - Duncan PER PS

.211 - Duncan WS/48 RS
.196 - Duncan WS/48 PS

55.1% - Duncan TS% RS
54.7% - Duncan TS% PS

110 - Duncan ORtg RS
110 - Duncan ORtg PS
-----------------------------------------------------------
23.9 - Malone PER RS
21.1 - Malone PER PS

.205 - Malone WS/48 RS
.140 - Malone WS/48 PS

57.7% - Malone TS% RS
52.6% - Malone TS% PS

113 - Malone ORtg RS
106 - Malone ORtg PS

[hitmantb]

Nobody's ranking Duncan ahead of Malone because of rings. We're putting him ahead because Malone's a poor playoff performer. His performance sees a huge drop from regular season to post-season. Duncan, on the other hand, is remarkably consistent from RS(regular season) to PS(post-season). Throw in Duncan's superior defense and Malone doesn't really have an argument. Karl did have some amazing longevity though, which is probably the only thing he had in his favor. Even then, TD's looked pretty good in his old age as well.

24.6 - Duncan PER RS
24.7 - Duncan PER PS

.211 - Duncan WS/48 RS
.196 - Duncan WS/48 PS

55.1% - Duncan TS% RS
54.7% - Duncan TS% PS

110 - Duncan ORtg RS
110 - Duncan ORtg PS
-----------------------------------------------------------
23.9 - Malone PER RS
21.1 - Malone PER PS

.205 - Malone WS/48 RS
.140 - Malone WS/48 PS

57.7% - Malone TS% RS
52.6% - Malone TS% PS

113 - Malone ORtg RS
106 - Malone ORtg PS

What about comparing stats people actually look at? Points, rebounds and assists?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...malonka01.html

At age 38 he averaged 22.4 points and 8 rebounds, 38 minutes per game and played all 80 games. He simply had to do a lot more for the Jazz than Duncan needs to do today for the Spurs. 18 years career he averaged 25 and 10 on 51.6% field goal.

A huge part of Duncan's success is being at the right place at right time. Granted, I think Duncan would achieve even more if he was drafted by the Lakers and got stacked teams for most of his careers (cough, cough, Kobe). But you can't say Malone is not in the same league because he just didn't have the good luck of being supported by Popovich/Buford. I would rank him ahead of say, Kevin McHale for sure. If you put someone with Malone's longevity on that Celtics team they would have won more les period.

There are too many "player X chokes in the playoffs after stunning regular seasons". The truth is everyone including Duncan (2005 finals bailed out by Horry after being shutdown by Wallace brothers) needs help, unless their team is flat out more talented than the opposition (Jordan/Pippen Bulls, Shaq/Kobe Lakers etc). A lot of the times we ask a superstar to carry a team for 38-40 minutes a night through the entire regular season, they were running low on gas and in the playoffs, the opposition can take advantage of the lack of talent by creating very specific defenses to shut one guy down and leave everyone open. It is the same reason I don't consider Robinson/Hakeem series in 1995 a true indication of their strength.

Post-prime Duncan Spurs have won as many championships as Utah Jazz, so my prediction stays: no better opponent to prove the greatness of the chosen one, but sorry, you are not the main character of this book . . .

I really really hope I am wrong and you can all laugh at me, but that is what I saw from reading stars/crystal ball/tea leaves . . .

[FvckMavs]

This place is turning into trash with Timvp still hurting and stupid post like this.

[Horse]

Remember Jazz also had Karl Malone in his twilight years (I honestly believe the difference between Malone and Duncan is much smaller than the number of championships indicates), played way better than his age, they lost to the Bulls in the finals because they did not have home court advantage, they fought back and gained home court advantage the following year. They were taken to the final game against veteran rival Rockets (Mavericks of this year), beat young Spurs 4-1 (Blazers of this year, Duncan's game was much more mid-range then, similar to Aldridge), and swept superstar Lakers (Thunder of this year, the team NBA wanted to see in the finals), they carried home court advantage into the finals, won game 1 and lost 4 of next 5 games.

I hope I am wrong, but too many similarities between the current pick-and-roll happy Spurs team and Utah Jazz in 1997-1998. The resilient veteran team that relied on passing over athleticism everyone respected, the ultimate test for every young team trying to take it to the next level.

It is fate, it is the ending of the GDP book. The league needs the story of LeBron topping Jordan and the three-peat is inevitable. Refs will make balancing calls to slow momentum on either side and keep the games close until final minutes, GDP will tire out and LeBron will dominate with individual star power. Spurs has more consistency than anyone else, but against a more talented team with an actual system instead of "free style", individual ISO power will prevail.

Spurs in GDP's twilight years is exactly like Utah Jazz, the perfect opponent for heroes to overcome, but will never be able to beat the main character of the story book because the writer won't allow it.

Big difference we were the better team last season and we're even better now where they have fallen off a little. lebron is even talking about how tired he is this season. No one ever liked that jazz team, but this Spurs team winning will be like a disney movie. I had no problem with the refs in the finals. They don't seem to clearly favor miami when we play them. If that remains the same we win easy. Who is gonna protect the rim for them?

[testies]

our offense is so much more complex than "pick n roll happy" Jazz, its not even funny

also, Jazz weren't moral champions, they just got outplayed by Bulls. We "won" last year

[testies]

I see some similarities.. Sloan played a flex/motion offense. Popovich adopted Jerry Sloan's motion type offense.

lol Pop uses obradovic/duda style basketball not jerry sloan

basketball exists outside of US you know?

[pjjrfan]

If you think there isn't a big difference between Duncan and Malone, I don't know what to tell you. You are on an island with a bunch of Jazz fans.

what he said goes for me too

[phxspurfan]

[ezau]

History doesn't matter so I don't really care about the comparison. I think a Heat-Spurs matchup this year is worlds different than it was last year.

In the 2014 playoffs, Tiago Splitter is averaging 8 points, 9 boards, and 2.4 assists.

In the 2013 finals, Tiago Splitter & Boris Diaw collectively averaged 9 points, 4 boards, and 2 assists.

People seem to forget that in the Finals Boris engaged in a level of passivity that we haven't seen from him all year, making him basically unplayable. This year (and especially during this series) he's turned into a small ball killer. He's shooting 30% of his shots from 0-3 feet and he's killing it from there, shooting better (.800) than anyone on the team that's taking those shots often. And these aren't transition layups. I don't think it's a stretch to say that at this point, Boris Diaw is our best back to the basket player. Miami's small ball caught us off guard last year, but this year Boris will eat Shane Battier for breakfast. Their only hope will be to put their best defender Lebron on a Spurs role player and tire him out down banging down low.

As for Tiago I think it's safe to say that if he was able to keep Dirk and LMA in check, he will have no trouble against Bosh. Last year he routinely got his pounded on offense, and his Euro layup was basically just beach volleyball for the Heat. This season he's made a change not in his shot selection or strength going to the hoop, but in the way he sees the court and helps his teammates succeed. His playoff PER is 19.6, his TO% is one of the lowest on the team, he's giving us career high numbers in assists, and his ORtg is a stunning 139 in the playoffs. Thats 32 points better than the 2013 playoffs. I'm as shocked as anyone, but on offense Tiago has turned into one of the smartest BBIQ guys we have. He would be the best passing big on basically any team that doesn't have Boris Diaw.

In short, Tiago and Boris each averaged a pathetic 15 minutes in last year's finals. We have every reason to believe this year will be completely different. Having these two in their current form makes the Spurs a stunningly versatile team. If the Heat go big we can put Splitter on Bosh and shut him down without help, giving TD a break on Haslem so that he can help at the rim, allowing Green and Leonard to play Wade & Lebron straight. If the Heat go small, Boris allows us to stay big and will punish whoever they put on him; it would be foolish of them to put LBJ on Boris for fatigue and fouls, but it will be their only recourse.

Chalmers, Wade, Allen, James, Bosh is the only lineup that the Heat could presumably throw at the Spurs for which SAS will not have an easy solution defensively. Any of their other players at the 2-5 spot will give the Spurs exploitable advantages.


This is the lineup that spaces the floor so that Lebron can do that thing where he bullrushes the rim and gets a layup or a foul call. I think our best bet would be to put Boris on LBJ and make him a jump shooter, play everyone else straight, switch screens for LBJ, and hope that TD/Boris can punish their bigs on offense. I like the Spurs' versatility in this series a lot.

Impressive take.

[Darius McCrary]

Nah man, the Thunder are the Jazz. Ref protected all throughout the WC playoffs and then blitzed when they play the league's glamour team in the Finals and don't get that ridiculous whistle.

TRUTH