Bird and Magic are 2 of the most overrated players of all-time, tbh..
Played in a league where 25% of the players were White Americans, and neither player had any impact on the defensive end..they benefit greatly from the hype of the 80s, as they were the faces of the league when it was revived following the NBA's embarrassing 1970's era..
Yes. Duncan is the greatest forward of all time, and that includes both SF and PF. His prime was better than any other forward's prime. Whether you base it on skill or accomplishments, it doesn't even matter. Either way he's the best.
Comparing Duncan and Bird specifically, the choice is easy because of Tim's 2-way dominance.
His contribution would have to be unpredictably high for it to push him up a few notches.
If Duncan rings again, he's gotta be considered for a top 4, and top 6 at worst. Insane longevity matched only by Kareem. He is still the anchor of one of the best defenses in the NBA.
This Finals won't define Duncan's career, but it could put him in ultra-elite company with the other top players. If LeBron wins, probably the same thing happens with him. One way or another, we're about to see someone vault into the Top 5 all-time of the NBA.
Disagree. He just has to be solid on D and have a few big scoring moments like he did in the overtime against OKC. Doesn't need huge numbers. He already done that in his career.
Going up a notch is moving canyons aside, he is below the likes of O'Neal who is his obstacle into the top 5. This will not change without a huge contribution or another very strong individual playoff run.
long ago. Bird is one of the most overrated players ever. Mainly because of his skin color tbh
You mean like shaqs finals contributions to #4?
Duncan's 2014 playoff run:
#1 on the team in PER
#2 on the team in on/off metrics(behind Splitter)
#1 on the team in WS
#2 on the team in PPG(behind Parker)
#1 on the team in Rebounds
#1 on the team in Blocks
#1 on the team in Minutes played
Doesn't really make sense to ignore this run if you're going to include Shaq's 4th, Kobe's 1st, etc..
if duncan rings this season
lebron has no chance of being top3, let alone top5...he will be forever be below duncan no matter what he does after this season
the current crop of players besides lebron has no business or unlikely foreseeable future of reaching top10
as for hakeem, his at the bottom half of top10, those 2 prime year championship runs is not enough to push him up into top5, its not like he played like that his whole career
gap between around 5-8 is not that much a difference
More like Shaq defending his le, multiple times at that.
So Bird defended his le? You have Bird above Duncan?
so ing dumb. bird literally put up lebron type numbers for most of his career. he was probably the best passer of all time who wasn't a PG. dude's defense is highly underrated..he was crafty, smart, and had quick hands and made clutch defensive plays. dude was twice the scorer duncan ever was and more efficient judging by TS% even as a perimeter player. i guess you could maybe make the argument for either player, but "bird is one of the most overrated players ever" just makes you look dumb. there literally isn't a measurable statistic that confirms your opinion.
is there a perception on this forum that Bird was a bad defender? weird
One must pass the immediate milestone to intercept the next. O'Neal and Duncan have existed in the same era, this means they are comparable in this way directly. Bird, however, existed at a different era and comparisons will have to change as well.
As it stands, O'Neal has shown he deserves his rank over Duncan and it's questionable if Duncan can even be directly after.
Man that's a lot of jibberish troll spinning to avoid the question.
O'Neal over Duncan is now trolling? What a world we live in.
Nope, you still haven't answered the question.
You made an argument that shaqs back to backs put him ahead of Duncan, which in itself is debatable. Based on your argument I said Bird never went back to back so is he ahead of Duncan, and you answered it by spinning it into Shaq is better than Duncan which is not what I asked.
I argued you compare Duncan to bird differently than Shaq because of era differences. A 80s championship says something different than a 2000s championship.
So more guys had jump shots, contained basketball IQs to run an actual offense and they cared night in & night out. No wonder it's referred to as the Golden Age.
So you can't compare players from different eras since championships have different meaning, but when compiling a list for comparison, Duncan is for sure in the back end on top ten all time and cannot climb.
So you can or can't compare? Which one is it
He can definitely climb up by doing the unlikely. That being said, he is behind O'Neal for the moment.
In terms of pure dominance at any single period of time, Shaq is Top 3. Along with MJ & Wilt
But judging his entire career. There are easy targets
- His free throw shooting
- One of the worst work ethics for Elite players
- He abandoned Orlando to run away from MJ and won les for a franchise that won before and after him
- 2 seasons with the Suns backfired and the final 2 seasons with Cavs & Celtics were downright embarrassing
- Yes we credit Shaq for his passing but ultimately how talented & focused was the guy? Or was he just the biggest body
Shaq really should have retired after the Suns. If not earlier. I also have a difficult time putting 4 Lakers in the Top 6-7 players of All Time. The franchise doesn't even have the most les. it could be 5 Lakers in the Top 8 depending on where you have Kobe.
^ No rational person would have Kobe in the top 8, so I wouldn't worry about oversaturating the list with Lakers. In their defense, they are an original NBA franchise and a close second to Boston in les. And Wilt and Kareem both played for the Lakers past their primes, so they only partially count.
Duncan passed Bird with his fourth le in 2007 tbh. Duncan won more les in a more compe ive era. He was a better defender than Bird. He was more durable than Bird. I'm not really sure where Bird trumps Duncan outside of nostalgia.
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