There's more than one type of transition three. Most of the time, the term refers to a set shot from a flanker on the wing or from a trailer at the top of the key. That's a far cry from a pull-up three on the break, which is not an easy shot at all.
Anyway, Green can make non-transition threes off the dribble as well, but he rarely gets opportunities, since he's not a handler like Mills is.
No its clear your the one who doesn't understand basketball since you :
a) Describe a transition 3 when trying to give an example of how Danny can create 3's off the dribble
b) Thinks that a transition 3 is a difficult NBA shot
Fact is that Danny Green cannot create three's off the dribble.
On the spurs these type of shots come from Patty and occasionally Manu.
They are also considered as a more difficult attempt then a catch and shoot or set shot 3.
Starks and Danny Green is not a good comparison at all. They are very different players...
Last edited by G-Dawgg; 09-24-2014 at 04:14 AM.
Not all "transition threes" are set shots or catch-and-shoot attempts. In fact, almost none of Green's transition points are assisted. They are pull-up attempts, which are the same ones that Mills (but not Manu) usually takes, with the difference being that Mills' are in the half-court more often (though not nearly always) and Green's are on the break.No its clear your the one who doesn't understand basketball since you :
a) Describe a transition 3 when trying to give an example of how Danny can create 3's off the dribble
b) Thinks that a transition 3 is a difficult NBA shot
Fact is that Danny Green cannot create three's off the dribble.
On the spurs these type of shots come from Patty and occasionally Manu.
They are also considered as a more difficult attempt then a catch and shoot or set shot 3.
Gary Payton minus playmaking, minus leadership, plus 3ptshooting, minus ballhandling, minus finishing at the hoop, minus clutchness.
...and on a different position.
Chinook what are you are trying to argue?
All ive been trying to say since I joined this thread is that Danny is primarily a set shot / catch and shoot 3pt shooter and that he cannot create three's off the dribble. The reason why we are talking about transition threes is because your mate exstatic incorrectly described that shot when trying to give an example of Green creating an off the dribble 3.
since we are on the topic though transition three's (yes pullup or otherwise!!) are considered a much easier attempt
Transition threes that aren't assisted are by definition shots Green creates for himself. Anyway, you didn't bring up creating shots until later. You originally said Green can't shoot off the dribble. Those transition threes are examples of that. He also had numerous examples of pull-ups and step-backs in the half-court. Just because you don't remember them doesn't mean they didn't happen. Just look for Green's season highlights on YouTube. There's a long video that has plenty of examples of his offense.
Also Thompson doesn't create threes off the dribble any better than Green. He's merely slighty better inside the arch. The only thing he has over Danny is volume. I don't remember the last time Allen created a three for himself. Curry's really the only one who takes tough threes, and he's perhaps the best shooter ever.
As far as transition goes, you're dead wrong, honestly. I can't see a single way you can justify your position that transition threes are easier than their half-court counterparts. Even set threes on the break are hard as to make, which is why Pop hates them so much.
No a player dribbling up the court and shooting a three does not cons ute creating a 3 off the dribble. You are smarter then that and know that this is a transition 3
Green gets his 3's in catch and shoot and transition. That's his meat and potatoes, everyone knows it. To argue that they come off the dribble is ludicrous
Its common knowledge but if you want me to break it down a transition 3 is normally an open shot and contested far less then a player shooting a 3 off the dribble.
Once again:
Danny Green is one of the best catch and shoot / set shot players in the L but off the dribble is not one of his strengths
Last edited by ceds; 09-24-2014 at 05:29 AM.
When you're dribbling the ball, and then you shoot it, you've shot the ball off the dribble. It doesn't matter if it's in the half court or on the break. Sorry if that makes your position that Danny can't shoot off the dribble untenable.
Is this ceds dude is re ed or something ?
The goods
Spot on. He's as good a role player as you could ask for now.
why would you consider "not being able to create threes off the dribble" as a minus, when it's a textbook bad shot selection type of move..
No, as usual, not acknowledging his point is not equivalent to him not having one. I'm sure that him having 190 posts doesn't have anything to do with the arrogance in ignoring his point. You're arguing over semantics, but the gist of what he is saying is inherently valid and obvious. I love me some DG, too but it's an over-zealous defense of him. Equating him having the ball in his hand, dribbling down the court and pulling up and nailing the three (difficult or not) doesn't equate to a lot of basketball afficionados as "creating off the dribble", just because he technically dribbled it two times to get his feet under him for the three while the defense was reeling backwards on their heels, in transition, versus no defender or a scrambling unsettled defense, sure. He can knock down the three with the best of them. Lumping that into "shots off the dribble" or especially "creating off the dribble", is generous? Specious? Disingenuous? It's a slightly more frenzied set shot, that yes, he dribbled into, to set his feet, instead of setting his feet and having the ball passed to him. But, it's not exactly creating a shot off the dribble versus an engaged defender which is what Ced is referring to, I'm sure.
Technically, you're right, though! Got Ced on a zinger, there! He was dribbling before he pulled up and took a wide open 3. (Not that that isn't a skill to be praised unto itself.)
Ced just should have used "creating" off the dribble, instead of "shooting" maybe. Maybe he did. But, he's right in the meaning of his argument. Danny doesn't create his own shot well. On fast breaks, you don't have to create it. It's there. You just have to be confident enough to pull up and take it, and good enough a shooter to make it at a clip that won't get Pop on your ass. And he does a fantastic job of that.
Saying that an open three in transition, because it wasn't assisted, is a shot that he "created for himself" is abusing the word "created". You create something from a defensed position. If I walk into an open field and say, behold, I have created open spaces, I am pretty sure I haven't created .
Reductio ad absurdum: If Parker dribbles the ball upcourt, and passes back to a trailing Splitter at the mid-court line, and he dribbles it a couple of times and pulls up and launches a three. It goes in, we say Splitter just created a shot off the dribble under your definition. If he could do that every time, we would have to say that Splitter was one of the best off the dribble shot creaters in basketball. It wouldn't make any ing sense, but we would have to say that.
Against a set defense, Danny is weak off the dribble. That's just plain and simple truth. It's not a horrible knock on Danny. Even Superman has Kryptonite. Steph Curry, Kobe, etc are good at it. Danny is not. Maybe you could be an optimist and say he's mediocre at it, whatever the assessment, it's an area where he is not on par with the best in the league, whereas his 3 point shooting is on par with the very best in the league, and his defense is on par with the very best in the league.
His offense off the dribble. Is. Not.
His inlet pass to the post player has made me cry out loud at least once or twice, too. Bad, lazy, dumb, distracted, or unfocused, I don't know which, but not good. Another poster mentioned Ritalin. Maybe. And, the article that someone posted regarding his floater misses. One of the worst floater misses I have ever seen came out of Danny's hand. Not Matt Bonner's hand, whose off the dribble offense is maligned to no end. Although, Danny did later redeem himself with some nice floaters. It looks like it's gotten better, but maybe it was always good (no), and he just was slumping more when I was paying attention. I think he's developed an improved floater.
But when Danny puts the ball on the floor, the first thing that comes to my mind is not: Here we go, this is Danny's strong suit. Instead, I cross my fingers, and it has seemed to work more, recently.
^ I'm sure nobody is arguing that DG can create his own shots consistently
I'm saying ceds is re ed or something on this quote:
"No that's called a transition 3 and yes Danny has that in his repertoire although its one of the easiest shots in basketball.
I was talking about shooting or creating a three off the dribble (Patty mills)"
so now transition three is one of the easiest shots in bb ? duh...
BTW at times dude is capable of that with batum on him:
Chinook did not use the word "consistently", but he stated exactly that those pull-ups were Danny creating his own shot. And what Ced said was a stretch, but not re ed. It would depend upond how we defined "one of the easiest". A transition/breakaway layup is easier, a set/assisted three, free throws, yes, there are several that are easier. However, Manu Ginobili is quoted in an interview explaining why he likes that pull up three, because it's easier than going against a set defense and settling for a harder shot than what they were given to start with. They aren't saying the same thing, but not so dissimilar that one rises to the level of re ation.
The notion that Danny is "creating" that shot is closer to re ed to me, but you didn't call ol' Chinook out for that.
Of course, outside of this...all three Chinook, you, and Exstatic are all great posters, of course. Just not beyond reproach.
At times. He's pretty damn good. And, Batum wasn't exactly on him...he got caught curling behind Tim...BTW at times dude is capable of that with batum on him:
I did not call out Chinook because he is right he "creates" his transition 3s opportunities. He steals / catches a ball then he dribbles the ing ball, deals with transition defense and set his shot while in motion, not sure what you are arguing. At the same time he is perfectly aware Green is no Manu.
For the difficulty of transition 3s you are saying it all "there are several that are easier" I'd add there are more easier shots than more difficult
well he deserves credit to take advantage of batum mistake and to use perfectly Tim screen, he handled the ball well, dribbled in traffic and used a nice floater to finish.
he is capable of creating his own shot but not consistently
Might be the best 3 point shooter in the league right now. Excellent at D, one of the best perimeter defender, one can argue he's better than Kawhi but that's a good problem for us to have.
I think he's reached his best form and oh it's very good and beautiful to watch with the Spurs system.
I do agree he reached somehow his "peak" but he is adding some stuff every year, he is getting better at finishing at the rim. It's not stand out progress but slowly he is becoming more capable converting his lay up attempts.
As a whole, he is imo quite underrated by Spurs fans. We have much more than a catch and shoot 3 guy....
Yeah. No argument there. He did a great job and took advantage of a mistake when Batum got OFF him. He didn't dare put the ball on the floor when Batum was ON him, as stated, which proves the point about his ability to create on his own off the dribble. I wouldn't argue how many shots are easier or harder, only that his statement is not "re ed" and is similar to what a very non-re ed Manu Ginobili has said.
and the fast break you describe where Danny blocks the ball...steals it...and dribbles all by himself to the three point line are a fraction of them. Many others are where an outlet is made to him and he pulls up and makes an uncontested three. Not this more heroic situation where he's staving off a maurauding transition D.
I didn't mean to underrate him or ignore his improvements imho but he has not been making significant steps in those areas( driving, finishing) for me to consider them as additions to his already elite basketball repertoire. I also don't think that "3&D" is a disgraceful label imho, it best describes DG's game and he's one of the best if not the best ever in the Spurs franchise with Bowen in the same discussion.
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