was Nagin out of line?

[ididnotnothat]

Way to speak up my brother.

[The Ressurrected One]

Manpower.

FEMA and DHS had its maximum resources deployed all over the Gulf region. Each of the affected States had already order their respective National Guard forces into a readiness state and positioned them.

What other resources would you have deployed and where would you have staged them? The area of destruction (New Orleans isn't the only place affected) is the size of Great Britain.

The storm came and went and on Monday all seemed fine. Had the President staged 50,000 active duty troops outside the levees of New Orleans, he would have been ridiculed by noon for wasting our resources. In addition, he would have been blasted for pushing the States around.

Every available federal resource was deployed at the time of the hurricane. Does anyone not remember the collective sigh of relief when the levees held? I guess not...

And, besides, they weren't requested by the States.

What part of "the States have primary responsibility for Emergency Preparedness, Mitigation, and Response" do you not understand?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

what a stateman.....right up there with churchill, FDR, lincoln.....

dumbass committed political suicide today.

every canidate that runs against him in any election will use that sound bite to show that he is a bit unstable and cannot handle leadership responsibilty.

i can see other people taking this speech he made and becoming a strong supporter of his

his statements make me think he IS a man of leadership, hes stepping out of the norm to try and get things done NOW, hes not taking precautions to suck up to Bush hes flat out saying whoever is responsible ing help us now

[The Ressurrected One]

National Guard units were mobilized immediately; 7,500 troops from four states were on the ground within 24 hours of Katrina — a commendable response given the disruptions to the transportation infrastructure. The DOD response is well ahead of the 1992 Hurricane Andrew timetable. Back then, the support request took nine days to crawl through the bureaucracy. The reaction this time was less than three days officially, and DOD had been pre-staging assets in anticipation of the aid request from the moment Katrina hit. DOD cannot act independently of course; the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) is the lead agency. Requests for assistance have to be routed from local officials through FEMA to U.S. Northern Command and then to the necessary components. In practice, this means state officials have to assess damage and determine relief requirements; FEMA has to come up with a plan for integrating the military into the overall effort; DOD has to begin to pack and move the appropriate materiel, and deploy sufficient forces. This has all largely been or is being accomplished. Seven thousand mostly Navy and other specialized assets are currently in the area directly supporting hurricane relief, and a much larger number of other forces are en route. The process has been functioning remarkably smoothly under the cir stances.

It is hard to understand what more should, or realistically could have been done up to this point.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

let me clarify

when i said 'whoever is responsible' i meant whoever is responsible for the delayed and inefficient help right now

not responsible for the hurricaine or responsible for not evacuating

we're talking about what Nagin said, and what he was mostly trying to say is that NOW right NOW (not prevention, not days ago)
nowwww...the assistance is inefficient and whoever is responsible for this inefficiency is who i was talking about

[Cant_Be_Faded]

TRO if he had not mentioned "the president" (his words) i think you'd be less emphatic in trying to make him seem outta line.

[The Ressurrected One]

let me clarify

when i said 'whoever is responsible' i meant whoever is responsible for the delayed and inefficient help right now

not responsible for the hurricaine or responsible for not evacuating

we're talking about what Nagin said, and what he was mostly trying to say is that NOW right NOW (not prevention, not days ago)
nowwww...the assistance is inefficient and whoever is responsible for this inefficiency is who i was talking about

And I'm saying that his ill-preparation has made the job of rescue and recovery infinitely more difficult and that the additional resources brought to bear since the collapse of local, parish, and state government functionality have performed admirably.

[The Ressurrected One]

TRO if he had not mentioned "the president" (his words) i think you'd be less emphatic in trying to make him seem outta line.

He's way out of line...and, I know why. He knows he ed up and now, he's trying to shove the blame everywhere but where it belongs.

The President had to plead with those bozos to order a mandatory evacuation...and, by then, it was nearly too late. What else did this screamin' meme do, prior to the storm, that prepared his city for disaster?

Did he move emergency resources out of the city? No.

Did he make sure hospitals had enough emergency supplies to last for 72 hours (as is the standard in emergency preparedness)? Apparently not.

Did he muster his troops and, if so, why did 40% of his police force walk off the job? Nope.

You know, the President isn't the king of the country. He can't just order local and state government officials around and tell them how to protect their own cons uencies... He has to wait until he's asked and then, he has to direct his resources as the local officials want them directed...unless and until that system breaks down which, obviously, it now has.

Now, you're going to see how President Bush handles a disaster.

[The Ressurrected One]

Oh, yeah. Who remembers this?

A year ago after Hurricane Charley, the president was accused of responding too quickly, allegedly to curry favor with Florida voters.

"Even before the storm hit, the president declared four counties disaster areas to speed federal money to victims. But that quick response fueled su ion that he is using disaster politics to help his campaign in one of the most critical battleground states,..."

[spurster]

TRO claims to be a libertarian, but he is a pure Bush apologist.

[The Ressurrected One]

TRO claims to be a libertarian, but he is a pure Bush apologist.

Just stating the facts... Besides, I don't think he's acting counter to libertarian principles in this instance.

[Guru of Nothing]

Just stating the facts... Besides, I don't think he's acting counter to libertarian principles in this instance.

TROll, you are NOT a Libertarian. Drop the facade.

AND, last I inquired, God is pissed your nose is stuck up his ass.

[The Ressurrected One]

TROll, you are NOT a Libertarian. Drop the facade.

AND, last I inquired, God is pissed your nose is stuck up his ass.

Whatever gets you through the night....

But, nice rebuttal to all my points.

[Guru of Nothing]

nice rebuttal to all my points.

You fail to comprehend. If you write 100 sentences, I read two.

That's twice as many as I read from NBA Dan.

[The Ressurrected One]

You fail to comprehend. If you write 100 sentences, I read two.

That's twice as many as I read from NBA Dan.

Well, that solves the mystery of your user name.

[Nbadan]

He's way out of line...and, I know why. He knows he ed up and now, he's trying to shove the blame everywhere but where it belongs.

The President had to plead with those bozos to order a mandatory evacuation...and, by then, it was nearly too late. What else did this screamin' meme do, prior to the storm, that prepared his city for disaster?

Did he move emergency resources out of the city? No.

Did he make sure hospitals had enough emergency supplies to last for 72 hours (as is the standard in emergency preparedness)? Apparently not.

Did he muster his troops and, if so, why did 40% of his police force walk off the job? Nope.

You know, the President isn't the king of the country. He can't just order local and state government officials around and tell them how to protect their own cons uencies... He has to wait until he's asked and then, he has to direct his resources as the local officials want them directed...unless and until that system breaks down which, obviously, it now has.

Now, you're going to see how President Bush handles a disaster.

We've seen enough of how W handles a disaster.

The state of Louisiana begged for help on Sunday August 28
by John in DC - 9/02/2005 10:19:00 PM

And Bush had no idea Louisiana needed help until after his vacation Wednesday night, at least that's what the GOP is now trying to spin. The state government NEVER said they needed federal help. Oh yeah, well here's the letter begging for it on SUNDAY, four days before Bush ended his vacation.

Here's the memo: Link

[Nbadan]

FEMA News Releases

Notice that there are two Emergency Declarations made on Aug 28th for Alabama and Mississippi, but none for Louisiana. Rather there is Emergency Aid Authorized For Hurricane Katrina Emergency Response In Louisiana on Aug 27 which says in part:

FEMA will mobilize equipment and resources necessary to protect public health and safety by assisting law enforcement with evacuations, establishing shelters, supporting emergency medical needs, meeting immediate lifesaving and life-sustaining human needs and protecting property, in addition to other emergency protective measures.

Did FEMA help NOPD with evacuations? Did FEMA provide emergency medical needs, meet immediate lifesaving and life-sustaining human needs, or protect property??

The only difference between an Emergency Declaration and Emergency Aid Authorization appears to be Emergency Declarations include "federal funds...for public safety debris removal and emergency protective measures at 75 percent of approved costs."

So why is there no FEMA Emergency Declaration for Louisiana?

[whottt]

He was out of line and he was passing the buck. I can't believe anyone thinks what this guy is doing remotely resembles leadership. He's covering his ass.

I think he is genuinely upset at what is happening to his citizens...don't get me wrong...but this guy ed up worse than anyone in this entire deal...and he is definitely covering his ass in a predictable and cliched fashion...but it'll sell with the right heavyweight Democrats and get him off the hook....so therefore I give him points for a saavy political manuever...but he's going to get hung out to dry when it is all said and done...and it's going to be his citizens that do it...

Smart politician...probably sincere and well meaning as well...but saying this guy is a leader is a ing joke...a huge one. It takes more than releasing 3 memos, pointing fingers, and cussing, to make a leader.

[Nbadan]

He was out of line and he was passing the buck. I can't believe anyone thinks what this guy is doing remotely resembles leadership. He's covering his ass.

Covering his ass for what? His cons uents dieing in the streets? I think we are well beyond that. TRO posted all this hogwash about how the Mayor and the Governor deserve a lions share of the blame for not asking for help quick enough, but I posted a letter that showed the Mayor asked for assistance from FEMA on Sunday. Sunday. What could FEMA have done?

Here are just a few Executive Orders associated with FEMA that would suspend the Cons ution and the Bill of Rights. These Executive Orders have been on record for nearly 30 years and could be enacted by the stroke of a Presidential pen:

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication media.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997 allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005 allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051 specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310 grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to ins ute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional ins utions, and to advise and assist the President.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11049 assigns emergency preparedness function to federal departments and agencies, consolidating 21 operative Executive Orders issued over a fifteen year period.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11921 allows the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency to develop plans to establish control over the mechanisms of production and distribution, of energy sources, wages, salaries, credit and the flow of money in U.S. financial ins ution in any undefined national emergency. It also provides that when a state of emergency is declared by the President, Congress cannot review the action for six months.

911review.org

Let's cut the BS, this was a FED -up from the start and now it has grown into a cluster- . Why am I not surprised?

[smeagol]

According to TRO, Bush can do no wrong.

No surprises there.

Next.

[smeagol]

You fail to comprehend. If you write 100 sentences, I read two.

That's twice as many as I read from NBA Dan.

[gameFACE]

Most of the attention is being focused not on the local and state officials who have responsibility for disaster preparedness, but on the federal government.

Not true. This can be answered in the very first sentence of the article you linked. Thanks.

Acknowledging that large numbers of people, many of them stranded tourists, would be unable to leave, the city set up 10 places of last resort for people to go, including the Superdome.

In the face of a catastrophic Hurricane Katrina, a mandatory evacuation was ordered Sunday for New Orleans by Mayor Ray Nagin.

Th criticism of the federal government is aimed at the response "after" damage. And that is for the remaining population. Most of the city evacuated. This was a national disaster even before the levees failed.

How is this all President Bush's fault and none of the State of Louisiana's?

Where in the interview transcript does it say that? You must have missed this quote from Nagin:

Now, I will tell you this -- and I give the president some credit on this -- he sent one John Wayne dude down here that can get some stuff done, and his name is [Lt.] Gen. [Russel] Honore.

I would recommend actually listening to the interview as well.

Who's idea was it to use the Superdome? Who's ideas was it not to stage critical emergency services and potential rescue and recovery resources outside the "bowl" of New Orleans until it was certain the levees would not fail? Who's to blame for filling up the Convention center with refugees without communicating this to those who are attempting to coordinate a cogent rescue and recovery plan? Why have 40% of the New Orleans Police Department walked off the job since Saturday?

Those were areas of last resort. Warnings were issued prior to their use as your article also indicates. If there is a chance that the idea of using these areas of refuge might save a few more lives instead of having ALL of the remaining population die, then it is more successful than if the state and local governments totally abandoned them after giving them appropriate warning.

Your analogy is a bit silly but............
If your son accidentally cuts his arm off you risk him not able to have it reattached. He won’t have his arm because it rotted but he might live just well without it. But if you ask a neighbor to help you out by driving him to the hospital your son might have full use of his arm. But if your neighbor waits until he finishes playing his X-Box and finally hears you or your wifes cry for help then either the rot might set in rendering the arm useless or your son bleeds to death.

You should buy a cheap Yugo or Citroen.

We were able to drop supplies in two days after the Tsunami.

But I could be mistaken. I'm not blamin' Bush but the reaction time and the fact that he himself said that the response was "unacceptable" leads me to believe that it doesn't take a genius to figure out that this was a cluster .
It could have been done quicker and faster because we've seen it done.

On a slightly different note: I have gained a huge respect for the police, firemen, and people of New York City and their initial response to 9/11, essentially with no federal help. They held together and helped each other. They were truly a class act compared to NO.

The entire city of NO is paralyzed. They have no power, no potable water or working sanitary and storm sewer systems. There is not a direct comparison to 911 although it's also a tragedy. NYC’s damage was isolated and there were working hospitals, communication and transportation available and with adequate surrounding infrastructure. Another comparison is in the willingness of your neighbor to help out. What a commie idea!

The key word Nagin used in his warning is “unprecedented”. Mother nature is capable of destruction far more than any group of terrorists can think of.

Nagin isn't afraid to say what he really thinks at this point. I applaud him for not masking supposed "leadership" qualities with terrible political sound bytes or photo ops.

[JoeChalupa]

I give props to Bush for kickin' some ass.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

According to TRO, Bush can do no wrong.

No surprises there.

Next.

hahahahaha

so true....i swear, TRO has never EVERRR admitted Bush doing anything remotely wrong....and the second you point out something you think is wrong, he calls you a lefty leftist, unamerican, unpatriotic
its like listening to Sean Hannity

i've never seen TRO ever admit Bush has done anything wrong
at least I admit he can and has done things right

but TRO thinks he belongs on mount rushmoore!

[scott]

Somethings never change.

Facts of life:

TRO will defend anything Bush does.

Joe is TRO's .