Yeah it's the ol participation trophy argument
"you showed up! Great job!"
His vindictive and mocking stage show almost ended their act before Teller's final scenes defined it. His style nearly deprived Teller of his greatest accomplishment and Simmons own greatest success as a teacher. He could have deprived the world of "Bird" in giving Teller the bird as payback.
Where you see a smile of validation, I see a smirk at the irony.
Oh right.
I'm still wondering at that point for Simmons where the vindictive anger was genuine or when it was just as shtick to push him to hit that Charlie Parker moment.
hmmmm. again, I appreciated how the movie left it open for the audience to fill in the blanks.
But I'm not sure that Simmons realized he almost destroyed Teller. I think he realized that Teller had the drive to push on and that his (Simmons) methods worked.
Yeah, but we know that Simmons has no problem with risking having people quit. He knew Teller had talent but he never begged him to stay.
almost an officer and a gentleman "i got no where else to go" type thing
I recall when I was a know-nothing as a photography student and I received an A- for an image that I knew was not very good despite my best attempts. I literally refused the grade. I said "you're doing me no favors in telling me this is not garbage. I refuse your grade. Tell me what is wrong and what I need to do to improve."
Within two years from that date I was a published photographer teaching at the university level. Students who accepted the feigning praise were not doing anything in photography.
But at no point would I throw at students, or slap them in the face, or call them names.
Treat them like humans, not ups, and typically you'll establish the rapport that allows you to critique and offer feedback without them shutting down.
I've not had my Ansel Adams, but I've had students who knew nothing of photography earn money in the industry, and even win awards.
This doesn't mean I'm "good job". I'm "You can do more".
No chance. He wanted to destroy Teller. Rewatch the end scene. He was pissed, not happy, when Teller came back and annoyed, not thrilled that Teller stole the show. Then, midway through, his rage became complicity, and he became involved in the success of the student.
Yeah. I agree. I thought your comments earlier implied that Simmons felt guilty (realizing he destroyed Teller). As opposed to realizing that he achieved his goal (to destroy Teller).
His friendly talk with Teller was a way to gain Teller's trust so he could publicly destroy Teller for destroying him and not being man enough to take it, unlike even the kid who committed suicide who took it, survived it without ing out and filing emotional charges against him.
He didn't want Teller to be his Bird. He wanted to remind Teller he is without him, and Teller blinks momentarily, giving Simmons endless delight as he kicks him not having it before the audience. He is surprised when Teller comes back and likely figures it will add to the tale, when it takes a turn you see the cognitive dissonance on Simmons face as he grudgingly is complicit to increasingly involved in the success.
Another reason why the movie is great, is that in all that happens, the why of it happening is open to individual perception and interpretation.
Simmons can both realize he almost destroyed Teller, therefore denying the world art and feel conflicted over it, and simultaneously rejoice he didn't.
He was never sad he destroyed Teller. In fact I'd say he was gleeful. But in the end he can absolutely realize he almost cost himself, Teller success while also not giving a since in the moment he's involved in said success.
The irony I mention is that if he had his initial way, Teller would have been great, but ended up destroyed, while in having his destructive way, Teller ended up great despite intentions.
The destruction didn't get Teller over the hump. It almost denied it. But it triggered something in Teller than fueled Teller to overcome the destruction. In those instances, you can't do anything but smile.
I think he really did want Teller to be his Bird. But at some point early on (possibly the first scene when he walks away from Teller), I think he realized that he wasn't going to be. And maybe with Simmons makeup, no one was going to ever live up to what Simmons thought the "Bird" level was. And in reality he was on some Quixotic mission that tore up anyone thinking they actually could receive Simmons ultimate praise.
But yeah...awesome movie. And the more I think about it, the more I appreciate it.
I think that's a great point if you meant it the way I'm seeing it. Teller didn't continue on because of Simmons methods. He didn't come back to please Simmons. He came back to shoot the bird at him. It was ultimately his hate for Simmons and not his desire of praise that took him to the next level. But in Simmons eyes, it was the total opposite. Maybe.
Simmons " you!" lead to Teller " you!" and the pair in vindictive exploits against the other ended up vindicating the pairs existence.
Irony
Symmetry as well. Like Stevie Wonder and Paul McCartney singing together even though Paul was a notorious slave owner. And Stevie's blindness takes on a symbolic role in addition to possibly being the major force behind his musicality.
I thought Teller finally got the approval of Simmons at the end of the movie when JK smiled after the performance.
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