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So the man likes sources. Guess I don't get the joke.
I thought that was SW whisphering sweet nothings into my ear again.How do you source "the voices in your head"?
So the man likes sources. Guess I don't get the joke.
LOL...you don't get a lot of things, but exactly what do you want me to do about it? Pay for your ticket to Kooba?
the only opinion that matters to a liberal is theirs...
Heaven forbid an African American politian be held responsible for demonstrating a complete lack of leadership in the face of this mess. Go ahead and blame it on Whitey.
What many of the poor folks are saying when asked why they didn't get out, is they were trying to saving the little they had and owned.
However, the simple fact is that these good people weren't trying to save their few belongings from storm damage, but their trash neighbors they were sure would break-in and steal their stuff.
It's sad but it's not Whitey that Blacks fear most.
Yeah..because whites never steal, rape or murder...
You just called black people trash, in a round a'bout way, pretty trashy wouldn't you say.
A debate, good, but why must we keep beating the same communist drum. I never, at any point said that I was a communist, but I do think it can be a good thing. Can we stick to the topics at hand so every topic doesn't end up as "why is cecil a commie." Thanks.
Forget it Dan! It's probably not moveon.org.
No only the trashy neighbors they ultimately feared would rob them in their absence. Today they reported that many of those raped in the Superdome were babies; It appears they did so, knowing in the safety of the darkness, they wouldn't get caught. These assholes are basically Trash defined.
I'm confused. Lots of insults but no link.
Sigh. Any one of you could have googled the story if you cared that much.(I think the fact that it's referenced as a CNN interview would give you a friggin' clue where to look- especially Jedi Googlers like Dan)
Normally, I provide links, but I forgot this time. So shoot me.
The original link was from Newsmax, but I found the actual transcript here-
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...05/ltm.01.html
It's a Soledad O'Brien interview. Here's an extended version...
S. O'BRIEN: There are people who say your evacuation plan, obviously in hindsight, was disastrous.
MAYOR RAY NAGIN, NEW ORLEANS: Which one?
S. O'BRIEN: Your evacuation plan before -- when you put people into the Superdome. It wasn't thought out. You got 20,000 people in there. And that you bear the brunt of the blame for some of this, a large chunk of it.
NAGIN: Look, I'll take whatever responsibility that I have to take. But let me ask you this question: When you have a city of 500,000 people, and you have a category 5 storm bearing down on you, and you have the best you've ever done is evacuate 60 percent of the people out of the city, and you have never issued a mandatory evacuation in the city's history, a city that is a couple of hundred years old, I did that. I elevated the level of distress to the citizens.
And I don't know what else I could do, other than to tell them that it's a mandatory evacuation. And if they stayed, make sure you have a frigging ax in your home, where you can bust out the roof just in case the water starts flowing.
And as a last resort, once this thing is above a category 3, there are no buildings in this city to withstand a category 3, a category 4 or a category 5 storm, other than the Superdome. That's where we sent people as a shelter of last resort. When that filled up, we sent them to the Convention Center. Now, you tell me what else we could have done.
S. O'BRIEN: What has Secretary Chertoff promised you? What has Donald Rumsfeld given you and promised you?
NAGIN: Look, I've gotten promises to -- I can't stand anymore promises. I don't want to hear anymore promises. I want to see stuff done. And that's why I'm so happy that the president came down here, because I think they were feeding him a line of bull also. And they were telling him things weren't as bad as it was.
He came down and saw it, and he put a general on the field. His name is General Honore. And when he hit the field, we started to see action.
And what the state was doing, I don't frigging know. But I tell you, I am pissed. It wasn't adequate.
And then, the president and the governor sat down. We were in Air Force One. I said, 'Mr. President, Madam Governor, you two have to get in sync. If you don't get in sync, more people are going to die.'
S. O'BRIEN: What date was this? When did you say that? When did you say...
NAGIN: Whenever air Force One was here.
S. O'BRIEN: OK.
NAGIN: And this was after I called him on the telephone two days earlier. And I said, 'Mr. President, Madam Governor, you two need to get together on the same page, because of the lack of coordination, people are dying in my city.'
S. O'BRIEN: That's two days ago.
NAGIN: They both shook -- I don't know the exact date. They both shook their head and said yes. I said, 'Great.' I said, 'Everybody in this room is getting ready to leave.' There was senators and his cabinet people, you name it, they were there. Generals. I said, 'Everybody right now, we're leaving. These two people need to sit in a room together and make a doggone decision right now.'
S. O'BRIEN: And was that done?
NAGIN: The president looked at me. I think he was a little surprised. He said, "No, you guys stay here. We're going to another section of the plane, and we're going to make a decision."
He called me in that office after that. And he said, "Mr. Mayor, I offered two options to the governor." I said -- and I don't remember exactly what. There were two options. I was ready to move today. The governor said she needed 24 hours to make a decision.
S. O'BRIEN: You're telling me the president told you the governor said she needed 24 hours to make a decision?
NAGIN: Yes.
S. O'BRIEN: Regarding what? Bringing troops in?
NAGIN: Whatever they had discussed. As far as what the -- I was abdicating a clear chain of command, so that we could get resources flowing in the right places.
S. O'BRIEN: And the governor said no.
NAGIN: She said that she needed 24 hours to make a decision. It would have been great if we could of left Air Force One, walked outside, and told the world that we had this all worked out. It didn't happen, and more people died. (END VIDEOTAPE)
S. O'BRIEN: The mayor making it clear that much politicking was going on, even as people here were continuing to suffer. The mayor clearly thinking that the governor did way too little, way too late for her part.
We put a call into Governor Blanco's office. They declined to come on our show this morning and talk to us. Her spokesperson did say, though, that it was a -- this was a tragedy now that was being reduced to politics.
I think, though, Miles, there is certainly lots and lots and lots of blame to go around. The mayor, of course, for his part, advising elderly people to be sure to grab an ax and be able to climb out on your roof and cut your way out. Obviously, not going to be feasible. Many of the people, it is believed, who perished in the subsequent flooding were elderly.
And we've seen entire neighborhoods where the bulk of the population is elderly. No way they're going to grab an ax and stand on their fridge and cut their way out of their house, and then lift themselves up and flag down a chopper as it flies overhead. That's just not going to happen.
Today, we're seeing a lot of blame, again, going around. And I think there's enough blame for everybody to share, frankly -- Miles.
And if you still doubt the accuracy of the story, there's always a video you can download so you can watch the Mayor's lips form the actual words.
How's that for accuracy and authenticity?
Unfortunately, there are predators who would take advantage of a situation like this in every section of society, not just New Orleans. It was the lawless ness in the Superdome that we should really be concentrating on. Why weren't there enough police and National Guard troops in the Superdome to protect the 30,000 evacuees from each other? Why were more bathroom facilities not put into the Superdome just in case the Stadium facilities overflowed? Why weren’t there enough food, medicine, and water stocked to last more than a couple days?No only the trashy neighbors they ultimately feared would rob them in their absence. Today they reported that many of those raped in the Superdome were babies; It appears they did so, knowing in the safety of the darkness, they wouldn't get caught. These assholes are basically Trash defined.
I don't think anyone is completely exonerating Governor Blanco from any responsibility here. She did what she was supposed to legally CHA and that was it. Clearly, the State could have done much more. Her unwillingness to let in the Red Cross into the city of NO was just bazaar. The State could have, and should have, provided more resources to the evacuees in the Superdome and demanded more National Guard troops immediately, even active duty troops.And what the state was doing, I don't frigging know. But I tell you, I am pissed. It wasn't adequate.
They knew what they were dealing with here, even with a CAT4 hurricane. Watch this Quicktime simulation of a CAT4 Hurricane simulation made by NOAA. Very eerie.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...0301653_4.html
FEMA's response time on the low side, and something that all state and local governments knew ahead of time, was 72 hours.
A larger quote:
I guess the "city" didn't know that 80% of the city was flooded, and I guess the "city" was wasting its time rescuing people. Just another FEMA official applying their superior stupidity.Other federal and state officials pointed to Louisiana's failure to measure up to national disaster response standards, noting that the federal plan advises state and local emergency managers not to expect federal aid for 72 to 96 hours, and base their own preparedness efforts on the need to be self-sufficient for at least that period. "Fundamentally the first breakdown occurred at the local level," said one state official who works with FEMA. "Did the city have the situational awareness of what was going on within its borders? The answer was no."
More like you reading too much into his quote.
Another view of FEMA's "cooperation".
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/09/07/fema/
Why FEMA failed
Ideologically opposed to a strong federal role in disaster relief and obsessed with terrorism, the Bush administration let a once-admired agency fall apart.
By Farhad Manjoo
Sept. 7, 2005 | Days before Hurricane Katrina struck the Gulf Coast, the city of Chicago drew up a list of resources it was willing to make available for relief efforts in areas that might be hit by the storm. Chicago told the Federal Emergency Management Agency that in the event of disaster, it could spare more than 100 Chicago police officers, 36 Fire Department personnel, eight emergency medical experts, more than 130 staff from Chicago's Department of Public Health, 140 staff from the Department of Streets & Sanitation, dozens of trucks and two boats. These teams, Chicago Mayor Richard Daley told federal officials, could work in affected areas independently, bringing their own food, water and other supplies with them. But FEMA apparently wasn't interested. Despite the host of resources Chicago offered, and despite the televised lack of resources in New Orleans, as of late last week, FEMA had requested only one thing from Chicago -- a single tanker truck. "I was shocked," Daley said at a news conference on Friday. "We are ready to provide considerably more help than they have requested. We are just waiting for a call."
Daley wasn't the only generous donor to be rebuffed. Throughout last week, various local and state governments, corporations and nonprofit organizations across the nation attempted to help in the relief effort, only to be snubbed by federal officials -- officials who were themselves providing precious little aid to those in need. Citing security concerns, the Department of Homeland Security barred the American Red Cross from entering New Orleans with food (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05246/565143.stm). Five hundred Floridian airboaters were ready to rescue people stranded in inundated homes, but FEMA turned them down (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/orl-c...home-headlines). Twenty sheriff's deputies from Loudoun County, Va., suffered a similar fate (http://www.zwire.com/site/tab1.cfm?n...d=506035&rfi=6). And Aaron Broussard, the president of Jefferson Parish, La., said on "Meet the Press" on Sunday that FEMA declined to let him accept three tanker trucks of water donated by Wal-Mart, as well as 1,000 gallons of diesel fuel stored in a Coast Guard vessel docked in his district.
...
Sunday's Washington Post cited an anonymous Bush administration official who explained that one reason that the federal government didn't intervene more quickly in Louisiana was because Kathleen Blanco, the state's Democratic governor, failed to declare a state of emergency there, a necessary step for federal help to flow (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...301680_pf.html). An article in Newsweek repeats the same claim (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9179587/site/newsweek/).
But there's a problem with the White House's excuse: It's patently false. As Josh Marshall points out, Blanco declared a state of emergency on Aug. 26 -- a day before Bush declared a federal emergency in Louisiana (http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/arc..._04.php#006415). (You can see Blanco's official declaration in PDF format here (http://gov.louisiana.gov/2005%20%20p...aneKatrina.pdf); the Washington Post has corrected its article.) On Aug. 28 -- the day before Katrina made landfall -- Blanco followed her declaration with an official letter to Bush that requested all manner of emergency supplies her state would need for the aftermath (http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20...%20Request.pdf).
Haddow [George Haddow served as the deputy chief of staff at FEMA during Clinton's administration] says that these requests should have been enough -- more than enough -- to prompt a full-scale federal response. Under the Clinton administration's FEMA, with Witt as the head, a storm of Katrina's magnitude would have prompted federal and state officials to actually meet in order to coordinate their response. "You were all working together to anticipate needs," Haddow says. "You're all sitting in the same room when the things happened -- the Midwest flood, the Northridge quake, the Oklahoma City bombing and all the disasters we responded to. We were in the same room together and nobody had to point fingers."
Close coordination with state officials was key to the Clinton administration's capacity to act quickly in the heat of a disaster, Haddow says.
...
The Bush administration's distance from local disaster-relief officials is by design. From the moment Bush stepped into office, he's been determined to move away from the coordinated state/local/federal disaster-relief approach used by Clinton. Instead, as Joe Allbaugh, Bush's first FEMA dirctor, told a congressional panel in 2001, Bush wanted to pull the federal government out of the disaster-relief business and aimed to "restore the predominant role of state and local response to most disasters."
...
Never mind I didnt see the second page of this thread.
Thats just about the truth of it!
You know, just a few years ago a bunch of the tin-foil hat crowd thought that FEMA was going to take over and run the country...
That's nuts.
Nbadan, another point well taken. Where was the leadership at the city and state level? Regardless of what happened afterwards, the tradegy of what happened was that a bunch of politicians let their consitutients down. Its not a democratic thing, its not a republican thing, its a holistic human failure thing. Everybody FU -- Citizens, local, state, AND federal.
Not sure what the fix is. Seems CA, NY, AL, GA, OH, FL and everybody else, less Texas, is acting like a bunch of French assholes. Here is Texas debating whether to sack up with $1B in surplus money that everyone knows could easily and wisely be spent on our schools, not to mention buying down the cost of a college education.
Anybody notice how cheap a college education is around Texas if your a resident of a surrounding state llike LA, NM, AZ, OK, AR, etc/
Not looking for a fight, just some Leadership -- other than the dumbasses present.
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Last edited by The Ressurrected One; 09-07-2005 at 03:48 PM. Reason: Unsubstantiated rumor.
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