Cavs: Phil Jackson: LeBron James travels half the time he catches the ball

[Killakobe81]

Rings is what matters, but you are assuming that Phil is the only one who can make things happen with those rosters, and that is not true.

In fact, an argument could be made that Jackson cost the Lakers rings by further dividing the rift between Shaq and Kobe, ending in the breakup of the team. Shaq still had a couple of good years left, and Kobe was starting to peak, if they managed the ego correctly, the Lakers may be able to squeeze a couple more rings from it.

His work in 09 and 10 was great though, not too many people have the ability to really run the offense through the oversized frontline and giving all the credit to Kobe, making Kobe think that he was the main reason for the wins and satisfy his ego that way. Perhaps he learned from the Shaq-Kobe feud.

You always ruin a good post with bull at the end ... a piece of advice. When you make a good basketball post and you are closing with a Kobe dig ... don't. Save those for the troll thread because it makes what come before it, .

I agree he did cost us in 2004 and beyond by feeding in to the bull . Butthat same ego also helped get shaq to refocus for 2000. Bottomline is a lazy unmotivated shaq needs Riles or Phil to win. He had brilliant X and O coaches liek SVG and Del harris and he couldnt win that way even with talented team-mates. Hate him or Love him Phil gets results. Pop, Riles and RC are only 3 coaches that gets close to the 5 Phil won in L.A. he was also the best at reining in Kobe's bad shot selection. he alsoe found use for past his prime ron Harper and Derek Fisher. Successfully managed rodman and Artest.

A true HO'er a asshole but still the ring master.

[Killakobe81]

If what West says is true then he's weaker than I thought. I'm under the impression that he wanted to be compensated for rebuilding the team by adding Shaq, Rice and Kobe. But even worse... Dr. Buss was leaning towards transitioning the teams responsibilities to his sorry ass children. West was a visionary... but I'm not buying the story about him claiming he left the team because PJ didn't speak to him in the morning and kicked him and Mitch out of the locker room.

West has ego like all successful men do ... getting emasculated by Phil in front of team as he grows in power and is banging Jeanie ...I would have left to. Not saying PJ in iated his outster but he made it uncomfortable ...

[Buddy Mignon]

West has ego like all successful men do ... getting emasculated by Phil in front of team as he grows in power and is banging Jeanie ...I would have left to. Not saying PJ in iated his outster but he made it uncomfortable ...

Killa... you're missing the whole point. Logo is using PJ as a scapegoat. Logo wanted to be compensated. But even more-so... he didn't want to take orders from Jerry's incompetent kids. The daughter was ing the newly hired coach and the loser son Jim, had just came aboard. I don't blame Logo for leaving, but his excuses are dishonest. Mitch got kicked out of that same locker room... he didn't complain. There is no great coach worth his salt that will allow upper management to hover over him while he's doing his job.

[whitemamba]

Pjax with the zen like wisdom. but hes right tbh, lebron does pack his bags quite often.

[hitmanyr2k]

So Jackson was complaining about individualizing the sport with four guys standing around when Lebron had a regular season high usage rate of 33.8, postseason at 37.6, and the last series vs. Cleveland at 40.8, when
- Kobe, under the coaching of Phil Jackson, had usage rates of 38.7, 35.7, 35.1 in three separate seasons.
- Jordan, under the coaching of Phil Jackson, led the league in usage rates 7 times (including usage rates of 34.7, 33.7 twice, and 33.3), led the league in post season usage rate 5 out of the 6 times they rung (with a high of 38), and a usage rate of 38.9 vs. the Suns in the finals?

Eh, usage rate really doesn't give the whole story about the way someone plays. That's where stats can be deceiving. The way Jordan and Lebron scored and assisted on shots is night and day really. I think what Phil Jackson is getting at is Jordan wasn't holding the ball while his whole team cleared to the weakside so he can go one on one over and over and over again unless it was late in the 4th. He wasn't constantly shaking and baking at the top of the key for an eternity like James Harden. Jordan was a great one on one player and all but if people paid attention to the way he scored they would see he had a great off ball game and many of his points came on catch and shoots and moving within the offense...something the ISO coaches/stars of today can't seem to grasp. That's something usage doesn't take into account which is why these stats people like to cite are flawed.

[Killakobe81]

Killa... you're missing the whole point. Logo is using PJ as a scapegoat. Logo wanted to be compensated. But even more-so... he didn't want to take orders from Jerry's incompetent kids. The daughter was ing the newly hired coach and the loser son Jim, had just came aboard. I don't blame Logo for leaving, but his excuses are dishonest. Mitch got kicked out of that same locker room... he didn't complain. There is no great coach worth his salt that will allow upper management to hover over him while he's doing his job.

sorry but west is different. and in essence he was the boss of both guys or at least should have been ...maybe West did want to place blame but dont act as though PJ is innocent here. Like I said the results are what ultimately matters but Phil is a asshole, period and has shown that many times over. I dont mind assholes Kobe is one too but just calling a spade a spade. But I do stop when West is getting disrespected by Pjax ...

[Killakobe81]

Eh, usage rate really doesn't give the whole story about the way someone plays. That's where stats can be deceiving. The way Jordan and Lebron scored and assisted on shots is night and day really. I think what Phil Jackson is getting at is Jordan wasn't holding the ball while his whole team cleared to the weakside so he can go one on one over and over and over again unless it was late in the 4th. He wasn't constantly shaking and baking at the top of the key for an eternity like James Harden. Jordan was a great one on one player and all but if people paid attention to the way he scored they would see he had a great off ball game and many of his points came on catch and shoots and moving within the offense...something the ISO coaches/stars of today can't seem to grasp. That's something usage doesn't take into account which is why these stats people like to cite are flawed.

All stats are flawed ... without context. Solid post, hitman.

[Franklin]

same for another James tbh (James Harden), superstar prerogative.

[John Petrucci]

Funny. I've always thought Melo was one of the worst offenders when it comes to traveling before he ever dribbles.

[DMC]

Phil is a real nowhere man sitting in his nowhere land thinking of his nowhere plan for nobody... except Melo.

[dbestpro]

Jordan was a great player and fun to watch, but in truth he ushered in the age of the superstar travel.

[therealtruth]

I thought they were making an effort to enforce traveling a while ago.

[Tuddy]

It's true, but then he goes onto say we've individualised the game You're 25 years late there buddy

[dg7md]

Jordan was a great player and fun to watch, but in truth he ushered in the age of the superstar travel.

Seemed a bit like an inevitability anyway. Nobody really wants a game full of traveling violations and it's very clear that superstars get favorable treatments.

I'm not concerned about it, traveling should always be a rule, but it should be hardly enforced unless it's entirely egregious (often when fans groan at seeing it, for example), LeBron doesn't really do it in a way that is something that I'd call constant.

[Strange Love]

Water is also wet.

I wonder why the league allows this to happen? Not only with James but pretty much anyone these days gets a pass. It's kind of becoming the norm.

I remember this game where Duncan hit a game winner where he traveled big time

[DMC]

Phil ing about iso and PnR. Didn't he have Kobe for a few years?

[Infinite_limit]

Phil NUKED the current game. We all knew it: just like in the NFL: the product has declined. Dumb Americans keep eating it up

[DMC]

Phil NUKED the current game. We all knew it: just like in the NFL: the product has declined. Dumb Americans keep eating it up

Phil has no room. He has a team at his disposal who cannot even make the playoffs in the East.

[Infinite_limit]

Phil is a real nowhere man sitting in his nowhere land thinking of his nowhere plan for nobody... except Melo.

Hahah. BEATLES!

[Chris]

Phil is a real nowhere man sitting in his nowhere land thinking of his nowhere plan for nobody... except Melo.

[Killakobe81]

Hahah. BEATLES!

Couldnt place it but knew it came from somewhere ... LOL

Still was a good retort by DMC ...

[ambchang]

You always ruin a good post with bull at the end ... a piece of advice. When you make a good basketball post and you are closing with a Kobe dig ... don't. Save those for the troll thread because it makes what come before it, .

I agree he did cost us in 2004 and beyond by feeding in to the bull . Butthat same ego also helped get shaq to refocus for 2000. Bottomline is a lazy unmotivated shaq needs Riles or Phil to win. He had brilliant X and O coaches liek SVG and Del harris and he couldnt win that way even with talented team-mates. Hate him or Love him Phil gets results. Pop, Riles and RC are only 3 coaches that gets close to the 5 Phil won in L.A. he was also the best at reining in Kobe's bad shot selection. he alsoe found use for past his prime ron Harper and Derek Fisher. Successfully managed rodman and Artest.

A true HO'er a asshole but still the ring master.

No question he is the ring master, 11 rings are 11 rings, there really isn't any way around it. But to say that he is a better coach than Pop, Larry Brown, Chuck Daly, Red Auerbach and other great coaches strictly because of his 11 rings is misleading. There's context around it, and Jackson really didn't bring anything revolutionary to the game like Pop (minutes management, pass-oriented game that's stolen from Europe/Suns/Kings) Chuck Daly (bench usage and tough nose defense), Red Auerbach (using coloured players, fast break using Russell as the center-piece), Jack Ramsay (Physical fitness), Larry Brown (incredible knowledge of the game) did. The only thing Jackson was known for was the triangle, and it was brought in by Tex Winter.

[ambchang]

Eh, usage rate really doesn't give the whole story about the way someone plays. That's where stats can be deceiving. The way Jordan and Lebron scored and assisted on shots is night and day really. I think what Phil Jackson is getting at is Jordan wasn't holding the ball while his whole team cleared to the weakside so he can go one on one over and over and over again unless it was late in the 4th. He wasn't constantly shaking and baking at the top of the key for an eternity like James Harden. Jordan was a great one on one player and all but if people paid attention to the way he scored they would see he had a great off ball game and many of his points came on catch and shoots and moving within the offense...something the ISO coaches/stars of today can't seem to grasp. That's something usage doesn't take into account which is why these stats people like to cite are flawed.

That's the difference between having Pippen as your wing man vs. having JR Smith as your wing man? Who is going to pass the ball to Lebron for a catch and shoot?

Note that Lebron didn't have to pull what he pulled vs. the GSW when he was with the Heat.

[Infinite_limit]

No question he is the ring master, 11 rings are 11 rings, there really isn't any way around it. But to say that he is a better coach than Pop, Larry Brown, Chuck Daly, Red Auerbach and other great coaches strictly because of his 11 rings is misleading. There's context around it, and Jackson really didn't bring anything revolutionary to the game like Pop (minutes management, pass-oriented game that's stolen from Europe/Suns/Kings) Chuck Daly (bench usage and tough nose defense), Red Auerbach (using coloured players, fast break using Russell as the center-piece), Jack Ramsay (Physical fitness), Larry Brown (incredible knowledge of the game) did. The only thing Jackson was known for was the triangle, and it was brought in by Tex Winter.

Phil deserves extra respect for being a rotation guy for a 2-time Champion (Knicks)

[Killakobe81]

No question he is the ring master, 11 rings are 11 rings, there really isn't any way around it. But to say that he is a better coach than Pop, Larry Brown, Chuck Daly, Red Auerbach and other great coaches strictly because of his 11 rings is misleading. There's context around it, and Jackson really didn't bring anything revolutionary to the game like Pop (minutes management, pass-oriented game that's stolen from Europe/Suns/Kings) Chuck Daly (bench usage and tough nose defense), Red Auerbach (using coloured players, fast break using Russell as the center-piece), Jack Ramsay (Physical fitness), Larry Brown (incredible knowledge of the game) did. The only thing Jackson was known for was the triangle, and it was brought in by Tex Winter.

PJ's way was vastly different than Pop's way. I think Pop is the better strategist and also proven he could adapt to different styles ...so I have no issue with POP's place as a top 3 all-time coach.
But to be fair the Phil, not sure Pop could have manged Rodman, Artest as well as Phil. We will never know but I think a case can be made that Pjax was better than Pop at that ...