The Poor

[T Park]

i think thats more commendable then an abortion

point taken and I agree.

[T Park]

Sure it's easy to abstain when nobody wants to /makelove to you, but there are alot of people getting laid out there man.

Typical childish, "Yeah well its easy to abstain when you cant laid loser hahaha"

So, because your good looking, you cant abstain from having sex??

Uh,,,,, ok.

Makes NO sense....

[AFE7FATMAN]

Second annual Labor day pilgramage to the lake this year w/ my GF's dad went a lot better this year. He loves to preach about everything especially his liberal politics. We got to discussing Katrina and N.O. and how the people there were so poor. Then it got to poor people in general and that struck a chord with me.

Some background info. I'm 25 and i farm along with my brother and dad. Me and my brother bust our ass's. I don't waste much money. I'm thrifty and don't go out to eat that much, I have my luxuries but there more along the lines of PS2 and a couple of games rather than the common snowmobiles, newer vehicles, etc...

So were talking about the poor people and he says there's nothing for them, no jobs are available and if they are they don't pay much. I called bull on that one. I know the job market is differnt everywhere but i can find anyone $12 an hour jobs like its nothing. That might seem like a teen summer job but the cost of living is so cheap here, a decent, medium sized house in a small town can be found under 20K. I know damn well that truck drivers are in high demand all over the country and the pay's not bad.

I also know that most americans are spoiled. The reason you see a lot of those s on TV (not all) complaining about trying to support a family of 4 on a McDonalds job is beause its an easy job. People spend too much and don't think anything about it. Damn right i got jealous when i'd see kids at my HS driving corvettes and clasicc cars to school but there the same ones that are wasting money on hunting trips and new snowmobiles when they really can't afford it.

Her Dad agrees that i work hard and don't waste money but responded that he didn't think i ever had it rough (growing up we were pretty poor but that's my motivation). I had an ace in the hole to use on him but i bit my tongue.

I wanted to ask him if he's ever had it rough, which i knew he was poor before. When he answered yes i was going to ask him if that was before or after he wasted 6 years of his life in his 20's backpacking through europe.
I do have compassion for poor people, but only ones who have it rough through other cir stances, health problems, kids health problems, child support, etc...

I may never make alot in one year, but I probably will be well off when i'm older. And to me that's what matters, i'd much rather be 55-60 and taking it easy then working through my arthritis thinking i had fun when i was younger. I don't want to be Brooksie or Red.

The ONLY thing that stops these people from setting out and making a life is the stubborness to leave what is comfortable. I'm not arguing that part is tough but i'm arguing that's all thats' stopping them. There was an article in the local paper about the oil fields in western ND can't find workers, $25 an hour, 82 hour week, next week off. Its not a 9-5 job but hey, You do what you have to do, don't you? $200 should get you a bus ticket from anywhere and a week's motel to start you a new life. My GF's step dad i admire a lot, he was dirt poor growing up a white kid in a black ghetto in Chicago. He was a bigger guy and learned to box out of neccessity. He saw an ad for a Univerisity in North Dakota in the nutritional department. Free housing and free food, they want to test different foods and see what they help/hurt.
He took a one way bus not knowing a soul up there and made a life out of it.

Not much has changed in America in regards to success, if you work hard you can make it a go.

Great Article.

I am White, my wife is Mexican, we are in our 60's
I mention this only because I don't want to read anymore BS about race,
although one race may have more people, that are poor, than others.

We lived in Minnesota (Duluth) for two years when I was in the Air Force.

Without a f'n doubt We found Minnesota to be the lease prejudiced
state we have lived in.

We have lived in Minnesota, ND, Ohio, WVa, Ky, Colorado, California, Kansas, (Forgot Honolulu)
Washington and Louisiana. We currenly live in San Antonio Texas.

Overseas: France, Germany, Italy, Belgium, Vietnam, Mexico, Australia

The lease prejudiced was France (right on the German border)
* White people do not have a lock on being prejudiced.*


The only reason we are not living in Duluth is because while I love the
snow, I do not like to shovel it and I hate the extreme cold.

I would like to suggest that you take (One Year) I would normally suggest
after HS Graduation and Backpack in Europe/or just Have FUN.

You may not reach 55 and If you do, your health may not allow you
to go snowmobiling. Body Surfing, fishing, etc. If you don't have
a little carefree fun while you are young. You may become a Old man
with a regret.

My Grandfather-He was Very Poor. Orphaned at 9, raised 7 kids,
Worked at the nickle plant and on the farm. Retired when he was 70.
BTW, about your GF father being a liberal. I can remember when liberal
was not a dirty word. and for others that my read this post Republlican
does not always mean conservative.

Added
Poor is Poor
Some get out of it some don't
Some can, Some Can't
and some won't, and some
like to just say "Pity Me"

Rich is Rich
Some use the $ and help others
Some spend it wisely, and leave it to their kids.
SOme like to brag about how much they
have.
Some use it only to get more.
and some simply piss it down the drain.

If you take can goods and deliver them to poor people, please take them a can opener and don't make it electric.

I agree if you work hard you can have a nice life, maybe not rich, but nice.

[The sone]

Get off your high horse

ok which one of you bas s got my horse high?


just thought id lighten the mood...sheesh

[spurs=bling]

BRAVO SICK!!!!



I agree with everything but the child support.

In response to the child support, if you cant afford that, you couldn't afford the kid in the first place, therefore, keep the pantalones arriba brotha.

[boutons]

"if you cant afford that, you couldn't afford the kid in the first place"

So a family split into 2 households is just as affordable as one household?

A family living under one roof has lower living costs than split under two roofs, typically causing both parents to have a lower standard of living after divorce. ie, affording kids under one roof maybe just comfortable, but affording them under another roof can be very uncomfortable.

[sickdsm]

- George W. Bush, in yesterday's speech.

Since when do you give a damn what W says?

[sickdsm]

If you've ever been to Montana you would know that it is home of the largest Indian reservation in the country - The Crow.

Most Populous Indian Reservations, 2000
Reservation Population1
Navajo Nation (Ariz.-N.M.-Utah) 175,228
Cherokee (Okla.) 104,482
Creek (Okla.) 77,253
Lumbee (N.C.) 62,327
Choctaw (Okla.) 39,984
Cook Inlet (Alaska) 35,972
Chickasaw (Okla.) 32,372
Calista (Alaska) 20,353
United Houma Nation (La.) 15,305
Sealaska (Alaska) 15,059
Pine Ridge (S.D.-Neb.) 14,484
Doyon (Alaska) 14,128
Kiowa-Comanche-Apache–Fort Sill Apache (Okla.) 13,045
Fort Apache (Ariz.) 11,854
Citizen Band Potawatomi Nation–Absentee Shawnee (Okla.) 10,617
Gila River (Ariz.) 10,578
Cheyenne/Arapaho (Okla.) 10,310
Tohono O'odham (Ariz.) 9,794
Osage (Okla.) 9,209
Rosebud (S.D.) 9,165
San Carlos (Ariz.) 9,065
Blackfeet (Mont.) 8,684
Yakama (Wash.) 8,193
Turtle Mountain (N.D.) 8,043
Flathead (Mont.) 7,883


1. Population listed includes only the American Indian and Alaska Native population alone or in combination with one or more races. Total population of reservation, which includes non-Indians, is not given. A reservation's total population is sometimes significantly larger than Indian population.


Or better yet.

http://www.citizensalliance.org/Rese...y%20states.htm


Regardless which data you bend to support your views, pick any state you want and you get my drift, i wasn't singling out montana alone.

I can google too, but that must be because i'm white, right?

[sickdsm]

Look, I'm not busting your chops because I have much of the same at ude as you about hard work being its own reward, but let me take a wild guess here - your Caucasian and most of the jobs you have in mind for $12/hour are with local companies that hire other people who are 'like you'. I'm not trying to imply that employers in your area are rampant racist or anything, but it’s a fact that most people like to be surrounded by people whom they share similar experiences with; therefore, your culture, your ethnicity, your reputation and your background make you attractive to employers who are readily willing and able to pay you that much money.

However, that is not the case in most inner-cities. Unemployment among blacks is typically much higher than other races at all age levels. African-American also typically make much less in their lifetimes that most other races. When you combine the effects of low-job skills and a employers market of employees to choose from, you get a plethora of jobs with low wages and little or no benefits.

So Instead of relishing in your good fortune, whether you appreciate it or not, and lamenting the plight of the poor, you should instead be encouraging the companies that you know who pay $12/hour to consider hiring people who come from different ethnicities and from diverse cultures. Providing benefits like on the job training, insurance, and family services can make a world of difference to someone who needs a helping hand. That's how you can really make a difference in someone’s life.

Since your throwing assumptions at me, how about you? I'm guessing that you either went to college or have a desky/management job, more likely the former. When's the last time, other than a summer job, that you acually had to physicly work, hard? Because when we're talking about the poor with some of the stories we have here, its not very likely for someone to be able to support themselves long enough to make it through school. Have you done any hiring lately for physical work type jobs? Do you KNOW what the scenario is? Its hard as finding a hard/good worker. Employers, at least some of the more smaller, successful ones have resorted to paying higher wages in order to find a better employee. I find it laughable that you think that racism is above the net profit. , i mean, even us rich racist republicans (we're all rich and racist, right?) wouldn't mind a hard worker even if he had an I love Bin Laden tatoo and a Make 9-11 a National holiday bumper sticker.

But the most ironic thing when you mention jobs and racism is that road construction happans EVERYWHERE. Its some damn good money out here. A lot of girls do it for the pay but more so they can get a nice tan. Now i know that most of those girls end up doing little more than driving the pilot car or holding the slow sign. But your going to tell me that these guys won't hire a strong black man but will pay these women to hold a sign?

[bigzak25]

Why listen now? You have never paid attention to any of my posts before. And no I am not playing the ethnic victim card as you suggest, although if you've never been a minority in America WTF do you know about it? All you know is what white-Christian-Republican pundits tell you to think because its become quite obvious to me overtime that you have no opinion of your own.

Never have and never will.

Contrary to your beliefs, poor people aren't self-empowered by being condescendingly spoken too about their work ethic by those who have never walked a mile in their shoes. This only serves to give them a lesser opinion of themselves and feeds on stereotypes that aren't true.

What poor people really need is help.

They need to know that they have a support structure behind them - it takes a village to raise a child, they need to know that they have responsible child-care if they need it. People need to know that if they or their kids get sick, they will have insurance to help defray the costs. People need to know that if they work hard their efforts will be rewarded, no matter their education level or skin color. People need to know that they will send their kids to quality schools with certified teachers and adequate resources to help end the cycle of poverty.

They don’t need Politically correct rants by long-winded gas bags trying to lecture them about self-empowerment, especially when most likely they don’t even know what the term means.

By the way, I grew up poor and today my household income is nearly in the 6-digit catagory.

yes you are playing the ethnic victim card, it's your modus operandi, and apprently, so is denial...

and yes, i've never been a minority in america. you don't know me. but i'm not suprised you pull judgements out of your ass like so many of your viewpoints. i'm 3/4ths mex, born and raised in early childhood on the westside of san antonio...was a baby and small child in the courts...alizan apache...had a grandma that lived their her entire life and another that lives off of zazamora. my grandparents on my dad's side were fruit pickers from mexico. my 1/4 white blood comes from my grandpa from new jersey that had some strong in white blood in him and his ass was hitchiking to and from austin to provide for his family of 3 children after serving in korea...anything else you want to know einstein?

i was priveledged enough to be raised by my mom and stepdad who was an over authoritative puerto rican, but who was a provider and moved to northcentral sa in the 5th grade after a year on the southside by kelly afb in the edgewood isd. which i taught at as a subs ute teacher and permanant sub for a few months after college. i've actually been in the and tried to make a difference and not just talked about it you schmuck.

why are YOU SUCH A RACIST against white christians...did one of them hold you down your whole life? apparently not...how come you didn't make excuses...how come you are now enjoying a high salary...is it because whitey helped you out...cuz God knows your poor ignorant ass couldn't have made it by yourself, or without your precious village.

Bull . It takes ONE caring, loving parent or guardian to RAISE A CHILD. Granted it's easier with two...granted it's easier with a whole supportive FAMILY...but stop with the bull excuses. Your the one that's a in sheep, and i've never and would never speak to someone other than an idiot in a condescending tone. What part of empowering people to bring themselves out of their self made prisons don't you understand. I wouldn't berate, i would inspire. Get a clue.

PEOPLE, ALL PEOPLE, NEED TO LEARN TO HELP THEMSELVES AND NOT DEPEND ON ANYBODY BUT THE MAN UPSTAIRS. I don't expect your ass to snap to that fact right away, but in due time my brother, i have faith in you, believe it or not.

Hispanics have had moderate income success for some time, especially in SA. If he's not older than 35, then I really doubt Bigsack understands what it truely means to be poor, disadvantaged, and ethnically challenged.

i think i've adressed your ignorance here as well...are you racist against hispanics too...oh i'm sorry...just the ones 35 and under...cool, understood.