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I just want this guy to dunk on Kobe and make Sportscenter.
His ballhandling is bad enough that he will not be able to be your PG. Its better for him to have someone else handle the ball under pressure and get the set started and just get the ball to him so he can go right into attack mode. The good thing is that once Simmons is in attack mode, if his opportunities are closed, he can find open guys. He would be the perfect wing system player, but I really doubt he can be your PG. His ballhandling is very rudimentary, even by d'league standards he struggled under pressure and when trapped. As I have said before, maybe its something he can improve on, particularly if we consider him a late bloomer and a guy who didn't have good coaching until recently, but truly he's 26 I would not assume big leaps in his ballhandling. The good news is that the Spurs can make it work with a shooting/gunner PG by his side like Mills and Jimmer.
I just want this guy to dunk on Kobe and make Sportscenter.
Can't dunk on a guy who isn't trying to defend, lol.
Not saying he should or could be. Just saying that "if" he develops his ball handling skills, it at least takes away a liability on defense with Parker, Mills or McCallum. At this stage, he probably is better than Danny Green. But that is a really low bar.
I just noticed though that there is a problem with the 2nd unit in that there are very few decent size and fast players:
Simmons
Everyone is slow:
Ginobilii
Diaw
Anderson
West
Marjanovic
Bonner
Fredette
or two small:
Mills
McCallum
Even guys like:
Butler
Thomas
are also slow!
Simmons is a guy that handles the ball well for an off guard & has a very good court vision. He is better than someone like Klay Thompson/Re in both categories.
I don't know about that but come on, those guys are shooters and gunners at an elite level, which Simmons is not. Very different games, those two guys aren't PG either and play next to some of the best of the best. Simmons has to find his own niche, and defense/passing is it. If he can get to the rack or run in transition, he's money though, and an excellent cutter bc of his ability to catch lobs. I love many things about him, just not delusional thinking this guy is better than Klay or JJ.
He really hasn't shown anything to support this claim so far. Dishing a couple of assists in summer league is not proof he's better at this than established NBA vets.
Ball handling & court vision are two skill-sets that you can spot by just observing a pick-up game. Some player just have a natural feel to the game somewhat like a 6th sense (both on offense/defense) that can't be taught & Simmons has it. That doesn't mean he isn't prone to making bad decisions trying to hit a home run instead of making the simple play. Now he's in the big league those small mistakes are going to be magnified & the other team is going to make him pay for it. He also has to be in sync w/ his teammates b/c it takes two to tango. Compared to Simmons I would say CoJo was almost robotic when it came to his playmaking skills.
He has good court vision but bad ballhandling. I hope he truly improves it. Maybe he was nervous, and we'll see him get more comfortable next game. He has athleticism to blow by guys, he didn't bc his handles are poor. Kyle on the other hand is not athletic, but he got to his spots bc his handles are nice for a guy his size and plays under control. Still I have hpoes for Simmons though and I think he makes the team. Not only does he fill a need, but he could get better.
I'm not saying Simmons is better than Klay since being an elite shooter & an above average defender makes Klay a rare specimen. But when his shot isn't falling Klay isn't much better than the likes of Shumpert b/c he's a one trick phony. If Simmons has better handles & court vision that the so called "second best shooting guard in the league" then I wouldn't complain too much since those are two important skill-sets for the position. It's not like he going to be playing backup PG like Roger Mason or Gary Neal which was the equivalent of watching a ship sink. IMO, Simmons is more comparable to George Hill except he has better court vision but isn't as good a defender & spot-up shooter.
Messina wasn't putting him in sets where he could do his thing which is PnR from the top of the key just like most slashers. He was at the corner plenty of times which is an awkward spot for slashers. He wasn't a point guard in college so he isn't used to bringing up the ball but he has decent handles for an off guard, change of direction skills & the euro step in his repertoire which is all you need to attack off the PnR as a slasher. He knows how to maneuver his way into the paint & is very efficient w/ his dribbles. You can't expect him to clear the side & try to go one-on-one on an island like Harden which is overkill anyways.
I don't remember George Hill having better handles than Simmons & he did just fine playing alongside Manu despite not being an elite shooter nor a better slasher than Simmons. If Simmons can knock down the corner 3 then it's going to open up his game.
Last edited by Kawhitstorm; 10-09-2015 at 03:59 AM.
Simmons ball handling is good enough for the coaching staff to give him a green right to bring the ball up the court even with defenders.
You don't see Green bring the ball up like that.
That's why I'm saying that Simmons on the PG is not bad an option when you have other good ball handlers in the 2nd team (can't say the same about the first team). With Simmons at PG, you plug a hole in defense and get a very quick and long defender at the PG positions.
They used to let Danny run the point in his first year on the Spurs. Seems unthinkable now, but it happened. The coaching staff wants to see Simmons in every situation possible to evaluate his strengths and weaknesses. I don't think there's any chance Simmons plays PG outside of maybe a couple of possessions with Anderson, Leonard and Green on the floor with him.
When you look at the roster, you have to ask what three guys will most often be in a suit or d-league.
Duncan, LMA, Leonard, Green, Parker, West, Diaw, Anderson, Manu, Mills, Boban, and McCallum are the primary 12.
Simmons makes the roster, but will spend a lot of time going between Austin and SA. Bonner will be in a suit.
The final roster spot is best used for a player who can play in Austin too. That does not work for Jimmer, Williams or Butler.
If Thomas does not show, then I think they go with 14 players and eat Jimmer's contract.
Simmons at 1, Green at 2 and Kawhi at 3 for certain situations in a game is fine with me... Only say in the second quarter to spark a defensive run... Like said above, Simmons prob has same handles or better than George Hill....
No.
Just no.
I think Simmons might have better court vision. Ball-handling is debateable. Klay's not good at it, so I don't know why you're taking such a strong stance. Anderson has a better handle, for example. Don't think Simmons does, though.
I'm hoping Simmons can provide some solid bench minutes at shooting guard this season, but last night he didn't look like anything more than an elite D-league player.
That is the point, he doesn't have better handles. You have seen Klay in the NBA. Simmons has played dleague games to the tune of 7-8 TO per game in a few games last season. His game emphasizes plays off the dribble, when the other guys are shooters who will make a play off the dribble as a second or third option, second option after shooting it, being passing. You are comparing apples to oranges and dleague apples to NBA oranges at that, so no can't agree with you there. I really want Simms to succeed bc he has things to his game I like and he's a team player, but you saying he has good ball handles is like saying Kyle is athletic--which he's not.
The issue for Kyle is can he play his game despite his lack of athleticism. The issue for Simms is can he improve those handles, an If he can't how can he be effective at doing other things if you don't want him to dribble in traffic or he's risky out of PnR?
I think you are downplaying Simmons ball handling skills too much. I agree that it isn't NBA point guard material, however it is good enough for him to bring the ball up the front court with pressure defense. You saw it in the first pre-season game. He was designated to bring the ball up.
If I were to rank the Spurs players in ball handling skills, it'll be like this:
Parker
Mills
McCallum
Fredette
Ginobili
Anderson
Simmons
Diaw
Leonard
Green
Aldridge
Duncan
Bonner
West
Marjanovic
Better than Diaw, but not better than Anderson. That's good enough for PG if you got Diaw, Anderson and Ginobili on the 2nd team.
I don't agree. Simmons may not have elite handles but he may have same or better handles than Klay which is average in that regard. Actually, last night 2 defenders (twice) trapped Jonathon at half court and he found a way to outwit and sneak between them dribbling.
Klay Thompson has the same handles as Gary Neal meaning all he has is an escape dribble or a straight line drive otherwise he gets himself in trouble when he's pressured. Dude can't split a trap nor does he possess change of direction or hesitation moves in his repertoire so you might as well say he's Danny Green w/ a post-up game. Tony Allen made him look silly in the postseason when he tried to take him off the dribble.
Last edited by Kawhitstorm; 10-09-2015 at 09:10 PM.
Several other times he forced shots when he had trouble getting to his spots, twice turned the ball over and not on passes, the TO were on dribble actions, one a carry, the other he dribbled into traffic and had the ball poked away. A few other times didn't turn it over, but he had trouble getting to his spots. To some fans here he didn't even looked like an NBA player, but fine, it's not like I want this guy to fail, so I don't feel like continuing to prove the point. He will hopefully improve TBH. The comparison to SG who are premier shooters is misplaced bc they have different games and Simms relies on plays off the dribble whereas the other guys do not. Rather they are forced to dribble as that is not their strength Simms is not that kind of player. Also, we have not seen Simms get the defensive attention those other guys do get. But, I have said my piece and will just leave it at that. Let's just enjoy his play bc I do root for him.
If you are expecting him to play 20 minutes a game then you are expecting a bit too much. Simmons & Ray are most likely going to split CoJo's minutes (3rd string guard minutes) & Butler/Kyle could split Marco's minutes. Patty is back so he's going to get his 2013-14 minutes so the only left over minutes are going to be when Manu/Tony are resting in which case Simmons/Ray will get increased playing time. In any case, I don't expect Ray or Simmons to play more than 10 minutes a game as long as the rest of the rotation player are relatively healthy.
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