Why do you always feel the need to generalise and take things out of context? How in the world does "stafford has potential because he has arm strength" become "arm strength is the only measure for qb potential"? And yes, I see him improving a lot, when he'll have a decent coach and an offensive line of course.
because the only justification you've given for stafford is his arm. how is he any different than cutler. what does he have that, say, mettenberger, savage, mallet dont.
because he's not accurate, not a good decision maker, and not really athletic. nor does he have great intangibles or anything like that
1. Carr
2. Luck, Bortles
3. Dalton, Wilson, Mariota
4. Everyone else
not being really athletic is a trait. being a good decision maker and being accurate is directly proportional to the amount of time the qb gets. I mean, you don't need to go far to see the perfect example, your beloved Palmer is the perfect example.
not being athletic is a poor trait. while many great qb's aren't great athletes, whats the harm in being a good athlete like ben, rodgers, luck?
some qb's are better than others at making decisions in duress. some qb's have the ability to get rid of the ball sooner (its why elite qb's tend to murder the blitz), others hold the ball and need to see a guy get open before they release.
stafford has good mechanics and a quick release, but he's slow to make up his mind.
...and a cannon of an arm. And those 3 qualities are really what makes a good qb, the rest is what makes him great
except stafford isn't great. so nothing "makes him great"
besides, arm/mechanics/release are nothing if you dont make sound decisions, read defenses, and anticipate coverages
we were speaking about potential. If you have those 3 and those that you mentioned last, you are a hall of famer. Of course there are different levels of the latter qualities, but they also depend on experience and a good scheme.
i think potential goes out the door after 5-6 years as a full time starter. at that point (and possibly earlier) you are who you are. stafford hasn't shown an ounce of improvement for like 4 years now
same reason why people stopped talking about jamarcus russell's "upside" after 2 years
Is someone really arguing for Stafford?
hm, that's some comparisonexactly what did he have ?
not comparing the 2 as quarterbacks. just talking about how there is a point where you stop talking about somebody's "potential" or "upside" because he's been around long enoughhm, that's some comparison
its raven's shtick to jerk off to any pedestrian white pocket qb
he also loves glennon and foles
Well the way i see it, if you don't have arm strength, mechanics and a quick release, then you do not have potential. You cannot work on the more advanced technicalities, when you do not have the basis. You'd be surprised, how many starting qbs are average to bad in the basis.
those are obviously positive attributes, dont get me wrong
i'm just saying that after a certain amount of time, the "upside" talk becomes irrelevant for each player. look at the peyton/leaf thing. leaf obviously had a higher ceiling and more upside coming out. but its not like 5 years after the draft people were saying Leaf > Peyton because of the arm strength and upside
again, that is your opinion, just like you thought jamarcus russell had a high ceiling. Perhaps you even thought rgknee had a high ceiling.. And what I'm saying, is that there is not that much upside to the young qbs, so stafford still ranks pretty high.those are obviously positive attributes, dont get me wrong
i'm just saying that after a certain amount of time, the "upside" talk becomes irrelevant for each player. look at the peyton/leaf thing. leaf obviously had a higher ceiling and more upside coming out. but its not like 5 years after the draft people were saying Leaf > Peyton because of the arm strength and upside
lol its not "my opinion".... you said stafford has a high ceiling due mostly to his arm. similarly, guys like russell were considered high upside guys because of their big arms.
my opinion in all this is that we've seen the best of stafford. he's been in the league long enough to make that determination. he's an average QB who had an above average ceiling which he never realized
talk about "upside, ceiling, potential" are more relevant when a qb is younger, still developing and improving. not for vets
then i guess you'd trade palmer just like your team did at the time. and no, i don't believe we've seen the best of stafford. and also no at the first statement, you're going all dumb generalization again...
i wasn't a fan of trading for palmer when we did, but i especially wasn't a fan of trading him away. they ed up twice on that one
the difference is, palmer has been an above average QB and was playing well for the raiders
stafford is an average qb who hasn't played well in about 3 years
Like I said....Russell Wilson.
NFL record...4000/34/500....in the same season.
9th playoff game.
Most reg season wins in history in 4 seasons.
Last edited by Avante; 01-04-2016 at 05:30 PM.
Just how far gone is this guy?
Revised List:
Tier 1: Franchise QB's
Luck - gets benefit of the doubt after a disastrous/injury filled season
Wilson - closing the gap after putting up a career year with Lynch being a non-factor
Newton - still can be inconsistent from the pocket, following a great throw with an easy miss, but have to respect the year he's had. impressive in 4th quarters and probably the league's best goal line weapon
Tier 2 - Need another year of sustained good play to join tier 1
Dalton - unexpectedly solid year, though come playoff time he might be same old Dalton
Carr - 2nd half of the season nowhere near as good as his first half, but still overall a strong showing in his 2nd year
Bortles - still too interception prone for my liking, but makes a ton of big plays, carrying the jags at times this year. surprisingly good 2nd year, might warrant that #3 overall pick
Tier 3 - May have something here... guys who aren't bad enough to let go of
Jameis Winston - he and mariota outdid what i expected of them. looks like a true NFL qb who looks good throwing from the pocket. rebounded from his disastrous week 1
Matt Stafford - turned in a surprisingly efficient season, but he's not going to recapture that 2011 magic. we've seen the best of him already
Tyrod Taylor - VERY sheltered by the offense/coaches, but he did his job well. moved chains, ran well, throws a great deep ball, very efficient
Ryan Tannehill - failed to meet expectations, but with Jarvis Landry and Devante Parker he should put up solid numbers for a while. hopefully he gets a good offensive coach like Hue Jackson
Marcus Mariota - i thought he'd be a disaster, but he held his own. some still overrate him because of the week 1 game where he threw a lot of short passes that ended up becoming long YAC touchdowns. he needs a coach that will work with him, like harbaugh did for Kaep
Teddy Bridgewater - i'm tempted to put him in tier 4, but i think he has a future like alex smith did. Smith was barely hanging around in his first 5-6 years, constantly being switched from starter to backup until finally catching on
Tier 4: teams need to move on
Sam Bradford - i was a believer but it didn't work out... though Chip was running an offense that didn't fit his skill set.
Colin Kaepernick - his only chance of success is with a HC who will specifically tailor an offense to his skill set... i think he's a good backup though
Nick Foles - just a very talentless player who had a fluke/mirage good season a few years ago, but people need to move on. he was benched for case keenum
Tier 5:
Johnny Manziel -
Last edited by spurraider21; 01-04-2016 at 06:17 PM.
^lol
Kirk Cousins? Should be in tier 2 with the stats he put up this year.
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