Amateur: Players Who's Career Would Have Suffered If Not For Playing With The Same Coach...

[Mitch]

Gold medals are team accomplishments.

Duncan contributed to a failure, then. Being that he was the most talented player on the team, he takes the lions share of the responsibility.

[midnightpulp]

Duncan contributed to a failure, then. Being that he was the most talented player on the team, he takes the lions share of the responsibility.

So if a car's engine is running fine but the tires are flat, the engine is also responsible for the car not being able to run?

Might want to rethink your logic there.

[Mitch]

Don't act like you don't know, bait..

Kobe Bryant declined to play in the 2000 Olympics due to getting married in the off-season.^[250] He also decided not to play in the 2002 FIBA World Championship.^[251] Bryant was originally selected for the FIBA Americas Championship in 2003, but withdrew due to surgeries and was replaced by Vince Carter.^[252] In the following summer, he had to withdraw from the Olympic team because of his legal case.



Tim lost

Kobe raped and was ankle monitored

Kobe = winner

His legal issues were a valid reason to step down, chubs. As far as 2000 is concerned, I don't see him not playing as a big deal.

Kobe played when USA was desperate to recover from the 2004 abomination headed by Duncan, so he gets his dues for being there when needed.

[Mitch]

So if a car's engine is running fine but the tires are flat, the engine is also responsible for the car not being able to run?

Might want to rethink your logic there.

The engine doesn't have influence over the tire's durability, the reigning 2x MVP and FMVP has influence over a team's performance and the result of the matches against far less talented squads.

[DMC]

His legal issues were a valid reason to step down, chubs. As far as 2000 is concerned, I don't see him not playing as a big deal.

Kobe played when USA was desperate to recover from the 2004 abomination headed by Duncan, so he gets his dues for being there when needed.

lol "valid reason"

Since when is rape more valid than winning a bronze medal in the Olympics? This is gotry even for you. Your hero quit 4 consecutive times. He's back at it, just FYI.

[Mitch]

lol "valid reason"

Since when is rape more valid than winning a bronze medal in the Olympics? This is gotry even for you. Your hero quit 4 consecutive times. He's back at it, just FYI.

I never claim Kobe as my hero, chubs.

Kobe was dealing with personal baggage and that's a reason to step down from playing for the US. Nobody is defending his assumed transgressions off the court here. It's not a matter of being "more valid", rather it is a valid reason for missing the Olympics while losing to 2nd rate foreign squads like Puero Rico is simply unforgivable.

[midnightpulp]

The engine doesn't have influence over the tire's durability, the reigning 2x MVP and FMVP has influence over a team's performance and the result of the matches against far less talented squads.

I don't think you know how cars work if you think that And a good engine can power a car with parts that are less than standard elsewhere (like bad tires). Duncan was basically the engine, but he couldn't work miracles with Allen Iverson pouring sugar into the gas tank.

In any event, I've already taken apart Kirby's FIBA efforts:

FIBA:

Not in the Gold Meda gamel, but the semi-Final matchup against Argentina was a huge game for the "redeem team," so it essentially had Gold medal game importance and pressure:

http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fe/08/...t_boxScor.html

Kobe was outplayed by a 6'2" shooting guard named P. Quinteros, who held Kobe to 35% shooting.

The '08 Gold Medal Game, often cited by Laker fans as an example of his "clutch."

http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fe/08/...t_boxScor.html

Kobe had a nice scoring effort, but his "Doberman Defense" was slaughtered by Rudy Fernandez (Kobe played SF in that lineup, LBJ at PF, Wade at SG, Paul at point) who dropped 22 points in 18 minutes on Kobe's head. Unacceptable.

2012 Gold Medal Game:

http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/gam...statistic.html

Luckily for Kobe he got to play his natural position here (Durant was moved to PF, LBJ to SF) so he didn't have to face his nemesis Rudy Fernandez. But Juan-Carlos Narvarro proved to be a difficult matchup and outscored Kobe. Navarro has always seemed to get the best of the Mamba when they've played. Here's him dropping 34 at Staples against Bryant:

In these scenarios, Kirby was basically a passenger seat (and not a very comfortable one), much like he has been throughout his career.

[Kawhitstorm]

There is no debate that Tony Parker is the luckiest SOB in modern NBA history. Dude would have been Ty Lawson if he was drafted by the Nuggets.

[midnightpulp]

There is no debate that Tony Parker is the luckiest SOB in modern NBA history. Dude would have been Ty Lawson if he was drafted by the Nuggets.

I'd still put Kobe over him. We saw how he does without Phil + elite frontline in 2004-5 (predictably missed the playoffs) and the same thing has happened over the past 3 seasons. Luva, Kool, Mitch etc, predicted the Lakers to make the playoffs, with a rejuvenated Kobe leading the way, the Lakers are once again one of the worst teams in the NBA with Kobe shooting 32%.

Biggest fraud in NBA history. He would've been a poor man's Vince Carter, something like a Desmond Mason, if he weren't drafted by the Lakers.

[phyzik]

I'd still put Kobe over him. We saw how he does without Phil + elite frontline in 2004-5 (predictably missed the playoffs) and the same thing has happened over the past 3 seasons. Luva, Kool, Mitch etc, predicted the Lakers to make the playoffs, with a rejuvenated Kobe leading the way, the Lakers are once again one of the worst teams in the NBA with Kobe shooting 32%.

Biggest fraud in NBA history. He would've been a poor man's Vince Carter, something like a Desmond Mason, if he weren't drafted by the Lakers.

just playing devils advocate...

Kobe wasn't drafted by the Lakers... he was drafted by the Charlotte Hornets with the 13th pick, then went mode and immediately demanded a trade. Even back then, he knew he had to coat tail.

[LkrFan]

We all know how a different coach worked out for Timmy

[Mitch]

I don't think you know how cars work if you think that And a good engine can power a car with parts that are less than standard elsewhere (like bad tires). Duncan was basically the engine, but he couldn't work miracles with Allen Iverson pouring sugar into the gas tank.

In any event, I've already taken apart Kirby's FIBA efforts:



In these scenarios, Kirby was basically a passenger seat (and not a very comfortable one), much like he has been throughout his career.

Can't say I'm a car expert, but tire durability is predominantly driving tendencies and conditions I figure.

Duncan couldn't "work miracles"? They aren't miracles, it was simply a matter of earning respect. If you came from a dominant le run, winning MVP and FMVP the same year, you should earn the respect of just about everybody sans maybe Iverson. With that he should have lead the team to be able to defeat D-league level compe ion. I mean Kobe earned the respect of the players on the two US teams even though he wasn't the best on the team and he has all the shortcomings you constantly bring up.

But he didn't, he was shown to be a system player and excelled only when pop was pulling the strings.

[SpursforSix]

Matt ing Bonner

[Xevious]

Had he played for a different franchise under a different coach, Kobe wouldn't even be considered on Iverson or Mcgrady's level. Just a low-percentage volume shooter that misses the playoffs every year.

[DMC]

I never claim Kobe as my hero, chubs.

Kobe was dealing with personal baggage and that's a reason to step down from playing for the US. Nobody is defending his assumed transgressions off the court here. It's not a matter of being "more valid", rather it is a valid reason for missing the Olympics while losing to 2nd rate foreign squads like Puero Rico is simply unforgivable.

'step down"



btw, wasn't Timmy's coach the same guy who pushed your in the same year? You know, the year you made Chauncey ing Billups a Finals MVP?

[Mitch]

'step down"



btw, wasn't Timmy's coach the same guy who pushed your in the same year? You know, the year you made Chauncey ing Billups a Finals MVP?

Yeah, that's the coach - a wonder why Timmy couldn't come through with him. What a failure to this nation he was... Couldn't come through even with the guy who took that Piston team all the way.

[DMC]

Yeah, that's the coach - a wonder why Timmy couldn't come through with him. What a failure to this nation he was... Couldn't come through even with the guy who took that Piston team all the way.

Still, Kobe couldn't beat the guy who couldn't beat "Puerto Rico". That has to mean something.

[Mitch]

Still, Kobe couldn't beat the guy who couldn't beat "Puerto Rico". That has to mean something.

Sorry Chubs, this one has Timmy with the lion's share of the failure. You don't even need a coach to beat puerto rico, it was just helpful to have a hof coach. Not like coach K did anything more than manage egos.

[DMC]

Sorry Chubs, this one has Timmy with the lion's share of the failure. You don't even need a coach to beat puerto rico, it was just helpful to have a hof coach. Not like coach K did anything more than manage egos.

Philo clone^

So now LB is a HOF coach yet your entire point here is Tim does worse with a lesser coach.

1. LB loses to Puerto Rico
2. Kobe loses to LB
3. Manu wins the gold

Kobe = no ring, no gold, but one ankle bracelet

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...be+bryant+2004

Shaquille O’Neal, Jermaine O’Neal and Ben Wallace all cited fatigue; Kevin Garnett, Vince Carter and Ray Allen are getting married; Kobe Bryant’s trial for sexual assault is slated to begin this month; Jason Kidd, Karl Malone and Elton Brand are injured; and Mike Bibby and Tracy McGrady cited security concerns.


Sure...