Lakers: Who do we want: Simmons or Ingram?

[LkrFan]

This is proven throughout Lakers history. What rebuilding period have they gone through where they didn't reach out and acquire top level talent to get them over the hump?

Just in the last two decades you've had Shaq, Howard, Gasol, Artest, Nash, Malone and Payton signed as free agents. You didn't draft Kobe Bryant. Magic, Worthy, Baylor, West, those were all drafted and none of those are walking through that door in uniform.

So basically none of your success in the past 16 years has come as a result of drafting good players. You could argue that's because you weren't high enough in the draft to get one. I'd argue that there were only a few available and only one or two that could have made a significant difference.

1992 through the summer of 1996. The only flaw was trading Eddie and Seldom Campbell for Rice. Cost us another 2 chips with that trade.

[Thread]

This is proven throughout Lakers history. What rebuilding period have they gone through where they didn't reach out and acquire top level talent to get them over the hump?

Just in the last two decades you've had Shaq, Howard, Gasol, Artest, Nash, Malone and Payton signed as free agents. You didn't draft Kobe Bryant. Magic, Worthy, Baylor, West, those were all drafted and none of those are walking through that door in uniform.

So basically none of your success in the past 16 years has come as a result of drafting good players. You could argue that's because you weren't high enough in the draft to get one. I'd argue? that there were only a few available and only one or two that could have made a significant difference.

None of your success would exist if you didn't strike the tank template.

You've nary room.

[Killakobe81]

roflmao u think 6 of ur players in any package is worth a durant or lebron deal? the only chance of getting either player is through FA, no way some team is going to accept a trade for trash ... no.2 pick is not going to get a trade done... no player wants to go play with a rookie in a rebuilding mode, those top FA players are in win mode now

I agree with this ...
that is why I think we should go the slow rebuild ...
I know Harrison Barnes is overrated but right now our SF's are ... Anthony Brown and Swaggy P

Barnes 100x better than anything we have ...

[DMC]

None of your success would exist if you didn't strike the tank template.

You've nary room.

You don't draft well. We did. I have plenty of room.

[Killakobe81]

and I agree that durant/LeBron dreams are beyond fantasy ...

[RsxPiimp]

I'm torn. All we get are glimpses. I like Ingram so much, at worst he can be a Tayshaun Prince type of player but Simmons is an all world talent, if it wasn't for those whispers that he had a bad work ethic, he's a no brainer at #1. He can always work on his shooting.

[DPG21920]

I think LA doesn't have a choice. But I think they get Ingram. Simmons, although he has more bust potential (seemingly) than you'd like to have a #1 pick to have has too much of a ceiling to pass on imo.

Ingram has a higher floor & is safer and may end up being a better fit. Have to hope he turns into KD-lite

[DPG21920]

It doesn't matter what LAs off season plans are. They get who they get & there's no choice . It's not like they are going to change their plans based on who PHI doesn't choose.

Like every year, LA is going to go back to the well that's been dry. They will try to shortcut the process and sign whatever "names" they can. If they pull a Lebron/KD then they are in business. If they whiff on the difference makers (and they will) they will go after DeRozan types. It makes no difference who they draft - we know this is who LA is.

IMO laker fans just need to hope by dumb luck LA misses out on the mid tier FA and lucks into doing things the right way. They will have to be forced into it though. It won't be their plan.

[Thread]

You don't draft well. We did. I have plenty of room.

Who the did you draft?

[DJR210]

Who's "we" tbh? You're ashamed of the Lakers name, now it's "we" when you're holding the #2 pick

[Killakobe81]

Who the did you draft?

DMC is wrong ...
It's not that we dont draft well ...
We never draft is the problem ...
Trading future picks for the present

[DPG21920]

Who the did you draft?

Is this a serious question!? Spurs have had one lottery pick in the past 19 years and nailed it with Duncan. Since then they have never picked inside of the top 20 other than when they traded Hill for INDY pick and grabbed who? 2x DPOY "he's going to be a problem" and FMVP Kawhi. That alone is better than anything LA has done with their lottery picks.

But in between those picks? Only drafted Tony Parker. Manu Ginobili. Tiago Splitter. Cory Joseph. Ian Mahinmi. Luis Scola. Many of which won les with SA and others who have long actual NBA careers.

[DPG21920]

Kills a is partially right. LA had a built in advantage with FA and rode that wave and gave up their picks for the most part. But the past two years with their lottery picks? They certainly don't look as good as Kawhi (and obv not Tim). Randle & Russ may turn out well but doesn't look like La hit home runs despite being in the lottery and they get their 3rd chance in a row now.

SA hits homers in the lottery and outside of it.

[Buddy Mignon]

Is this a serious question!? Spurs have had one lottery pick in the past 19 years and nailed it with Duncan. Since then they have never picked inside of the top 20 other than when they traded Hill for INDY pick and grabbed who? 2x DPOY "he's going to be a problem" and FMVP Kawhi. That alone is better than anything LA has done with their lottery picks.

But in between those picks? Only drafted Tony Parker. Manu Ginobili. Tiago Splitter. Cory Joseph. Ian Mahinmi. Luis Scola. Many of which won les with SA and others who have long actual NBA careers.

We drafted Magic, Worthy, Eddie Jones, Van Exel, and Kobe. That trumps anything you have to offer. In fact... that starting five would win a le.

[RsxPiimp]

We drafted Magic, Worthy, Eddie Jones, Van Exel, and Kobe. That trumps anything you have to offer. In fact... that starting five would win a le.

Bynum was an AS talent too, unfortunately he was made of glass.

[The Gemini Method]

Whomever they pick or whatever they do in the offseason will make for an interesting summer. I think Philly wants to eradicate that bad taste in their mouth and win back a fickle fanbase. They haven't had the top pick since they drafted the Answer. I'm thinking they go Simmons with the overall top pick hoping they'll catch lightning in a bottle for a second time. That would me we'll more than likely draft Ingram. Both guys need a little bit of time to adjust to the Pro game. It won't be over night when we'll see dividends if we do indeed keep the 2nd pick. However, as evident through the brethren posters and the fanbase at large, Laker fans have next to little patience. That is the burden of the success they've become accustomed to over the years.

I don't see them landing a marquee superstar like KD or LeBron. Both are on the precipice of winning an NBA le. Why would they leave greener pastures for what has become a circus that is the Los Angeles Lakers. I'm weary of DeRozan and Whiteside. They're definitely quality pieces to have, but they don't scream playoffs with the talent around them. I, though, have to be real and admit that I didn't watch many Raptors' games or Heat games. That is due to my bias towards the Western Conference and the weakness of stomach that I developed watching the Kobe Chuck Retirement Party.

For a lifelong Laker fan, this is it though.

This is the last year that I will tolerate the incompetence of the Front Office. If we can't solidify the team and make them at least compe ive in the ultra-tough Western Conference, then I expect them to at least dispose of Jim as the head of Basketball Operations. I think Mitch gets a pass since they did keep their 2nd pick and they did hire Luke Walton. No sense in getting rid of Kupchak based on the new hire unless he flounders and we do worse than a 17-65 record. I am hoping for a 13-15 game improvement next year. While that may be a pipe dream, it's a step that needs to happen. So I think Ingram will be the choice.

[DPG21920]

We drafted Magic, Worthy, Eddie Jones, Van Exel, and Kobe. That trumps anything you have to offer. In fact... that starting five would win a le.

No. We are talking current years under current management. The ones who had Tim & Kobe and their ability.

[8FOR!3]

Ben Simmons is such a dominant athlete I don't really think his bust potential is all that high. But he can't shoot and there's a decent chance he'll never be able to. His shot is THAT bad. Might be worse than MKG coming out of college. I remember him at least being able to shoot the mid range (not good, but he still made a few.)

[DPG21920]

If he can't shoot and can't improve there that's a bust for a #1 pick unless he's a DPOY or something.

[Killakobe81]

Whomever they pick or whatever they do in the offseason will make for an interesting summer. I think Philly wants to eradicate that bad taste in their mouth and win back a fickle fanbase. They haven't had the top pick since they drafted the Answer. I'm thinking they go Simmons with the overall top pick hoping they'll catch lightning in a bottle for a second time. That would me we'll more than likely draft Ingram. Both guys need a little bit of time to adjust to the Pro game. It won't be over night when we'll see dividends if we do indeed keep the 2nd pick. However, as evident through the brethren posters and the fanbase at large, Laker fans have next to little patience. That is the burden of the success they've become accustomed to over the years.

I don't see them landing a marquee superstar like KD or LeBron. Both are on the precipice of winning an NBA le. Why would they leave greener pastures for what has become a circus that is the Los Angeles Lakers. I'm weary of DeRozan and Whiteside. They're definitely quality pieces to have, but they don't scream playoffs with the talent around them. I, though, have to be real and admit that I didn't watch many Raptors' games or Heat games. That is due to my bias towards the Western Conference and the weakness of stomach that I developed watching the Kobe Chuck Retirement Party.

For a lifelong Laker fan, this is it though.

This is the last year that I will tolerate the incompetence of the Front Office. If we can't solidify the team and make them at least compe ive in the ultra-tough Western Conference, then I expect them to at least dispose of Jim as the head of Basketball Operations. I think Mitch gets a pass since they did keep their 2nd pick and they did hire Luke Walton. No sense in getting rid of Kupchak based on the new hire unless he flounders and we do worse than a 17-65 record. I am hoping for a 13-15 game improvement next year. While that may be a pipe dream, it's a step that needs to happen. So I think Ingram will be the choice.

Well said ... although I cant agree with this is the last year part. I wish I could take a hardline like that but I can't. I have been behind this team so long. For me I just did not buy LP and refused to purchase any Laker related merch or tix. Last year was the least I have watched the Lakers in almost 30 years of fandom.

I wish the rest of the fan-base was as realistic as you are Gemini but they are not.
I have no problem watching a young team develop but the fan-base is star crazy ...
and the fan base demanding.

I am also weary of DD and Whiteside. Crazy thing is Barnes and Fezili have done even less and will also want max money ... I cannot agree to that tbh. But what are realistic alternatives?

As for Jimbo and Mitch not sure how one guy is blameless but the other is not?
Really i just want to see the Buss kids play nice, stay out of the media and let West's son and Mitch handle the basketball ops but Mitch is accountable same as Jimbo in my book.

We will land no big fish Laker fans need to be realistic.
Yesterday was a good day ... but we have so much more work to do
32-35 wins is a realistic goal depending on realistic signings.
I dont think we make playoffs for another year or two which is sad but reality.

[Thread]

Is this a serious question!? Spurs have had one lottery pick in the past 19 years and nailed it with Duncan. Since then they have never picked inside of the top 20 other than when they traded Hill for INDY pick and grabbed who? 2x DPOY "he's going to be a problem" and FMVP Kawhi. That alone is better than anything LA has done with their lottery picks.

But in between those picks? Only drafted Tony Parker. Manu Ginobili. Tiago Splitter. Cory Joseph. Ian Mahinmi. Luis Scola. Many of which won les with SA and others who have long actual NBA careers.

I'm not talking about the tank that enabled Duncan. And neither will you.

You traded for that pick on Parker.

I'll grant you The Pile. It was an electric pick.

The rest are pedestrian.

[DPG21920]

You're an idiot. Spurs made every single pick I listed. They didn't trade for anything.

[Thread]

You're an idiot. Spurs made every single pick I listed. They didn't trade for anything.

you then. Call me an idiot.

Stay away from me.

[Killakobe81]

Kills a is partially right. LA had a built in advantage with FA and rode that wave and gave up their picks for the most part. But the past two years with their lottery picks? They certainly don't look as good as Kawhi (and obv not Tim). Randle & Russ may turn out well but doesn't look like La hit home runs despite being in the lottery and they get their 3rd chance in a row now.

SA hits homers in the lottery and outside of it.

Of course but is the SAS bar realistic for LAL?
Has any other franchise consistently drafted THAT well?
Spurs get no bonus for Duncan he was KAT times ten ...everyone would have drafted Timmy.
Spurs get credit for Kiwi of course and Tony/Manu but how many years ago were those?

Of course the Spurs have drafted well from where they have and should be applauded for it but they have drafted 4 stars and 3 of those were drafted over a decade ago. The rest probably wont be much better than Randle/Russell tbh Splitter might be done already.

[DPG21920]

Of course but is the SAS bar realistic for LAL?
Has any other franchise consistently drafted THAT well?
Spurs get no bonus for Duncan he was KAT times ten ...everyone would have drafted Timmy.
Spurs get credit for Kiwi of course and Tony/Manu but how many years ago were those?

Of course the Spurs have drafted well from where they have and should be applauded for it but they have drafted 4 stars and 3 of those were drafted over a decade ago. The rest probably wont be much better than Randle/Russell tbh Splitter might be done already.

Randle/Russ were lottery picks though. Spurs consistently draft NBA quality players and this is what LA fans need to understand if they are serious about being ok with LA taking their time. They will need to not only value picks but draft well with them. Esp in the lottery.

When you don't nail a lottery pick it hurts badly if you can't overcome it in FA and it delays the climb back to the playoffs.