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There must be a damn daily quota for starting Parker threads.
and his defense isn't going to get better
There must be a damn daily quota for starting Parker threads.
Deron Williams is averaging 16 & 7 on 45%/40%/92% shooting for the past 15 games
Spurs have all the pieces that can win the le..
Size
Shooting
Versatility
Depth
Star Power
Only problem is unlike the other 2 top teams they've dealt with injuries and have had to deal with 7 new players and losing a Top 5 presence of all time..yet despite all that they're still in striking distance to own top record in league. The next measuring stick will be against Cleveland..if Spurs compete or beat them I think that puts this teams confidence to another level.
But SpursTalk will always be in full panic mode
Parker is not the only problem
Spurs still struggle against athletic teams and the starting front-court is soft and a complete liability defending the pick and roll. No wonder the Clippers have our number. This team simply can't afford having a single guy guy sucking during the playoffs in order to win another ring. GS can afford having one of their BIG 4 having a day and they can still win. Cavs totally rely on Lebron and the rest of the teams are ing fool's gold. SA is pretty much the only team that can screw another GS/Cavs Final. In a good day I think SA can beat anyone in the NBA. At the same, it wouldn't be a complete surprise if they lose to the Clips or even Houston in the 2nd round.
They need all their top dogs healthy and playing well. I think they are built to not be so vulnerable if Tony is injured or out but they are so much better when he is playing well and any team wants to be at their very best in the playoffs...
I think Parker still has to be better still but really I want to see Pau do better on D and on the boards. What good is Parker being good if other teams are getting offensive rebounds? Age is one thing but not doing your part on D or screening or boxing out is just bad. BTW, I like what LA is doing though in that area lately, which had been my complaint.
I think if one of GSW's big 4 has a bad game, one of them has to have a really good game to make up for it. I don't see Curry, Green, and Durant having mediocre games to their standards while Klay has a game and they still win easily. Obviously they can still win, but I think you're implying they could do it easily.
Last edited by Chews; 01-04-2017 at 10:38 PM. Reason: spelling
The numbers add up. The problem has been that this team has had two big weaknesses that could be exploited by top-tier teams - the 1 and the 5. Being weak at both of those positions is too much to overcome beyond the second round of the playoffs, IMO. There is no doubt that Tony has been playing a different game lately. The premise of the thread is that Tony is able to keep up this level of play indefinitely. Then, yeah, that changes the calculus.
Can he do it? That's a subject for a different thread. But at least it would give the team a shot at a path through the playoffs. It doesn't change the fact that Pau has been an absolute pylon on defense on a lot of nights. Maybe most nights. He's not just a weak spot on D - he is a huge gaping hole. So it's still possible for the right matchup to knock the Spurs out in the second round or WCF.
I stand by what I said since preseason. Without Parker playing at this level, plus Pau's lethargic defense? There's no realistic path through to a Championship, without key injuries to a couple of opponents. But Tony isn't the only bright spot. Danny has been hitting some 3's lately, and that makes a big difference. Manu has been playing some awesome minutes, when the team really needed him, and even last night he didn't have anyone calling him "Turnobili". That's a big plus. I won't even mention Kyle, Simmons, or Murray because I don't feel like getting into any pissing contests tonight. But none of the other guys would be enough to put them over the top. They either need Parker to play at a high level, or Pau to defend much better to have anything but a fluke shot at a championship.
No foresight needed here. If Tony doesn't play well, the Spurs have zero shot at a championship (see 2015 and 2016 season). Paddy stats doesn't change that narrative no matter how well he plays.
I am not that negative although I recognize the team's weaknesses and don't dispute them... but I have hope.
I see it a little differently. I think if this team was playing in the 90s they would be running teams completely off the court. I think the compe ion in the NBA has risen drastically (and the Spurs are still a 65 win team), meaning that our "weaknesses" only look like that in the current zeitgeist of the league.
Well I can't quote stats at other people, and then ignore them when they go against me. The win pace says that they are an exceptional team.
Personally, I don't think that the compe ion has risen dramatically in the NBA. I think the talent is concentrated even more at the top. And if you look at the Spurs' losses, near-losses, and even the games that they have had to come back from first half disasters? I think you see what could kill them in the playoffs. The Orlando game is a good example. Tony with 2 PTS, 3 AST, and 4 TO's. And Ibaka, Biyombo, and Vucevic owned the middle. And I think the top 3-4 teams in each conference will be able to exploit that, if something doesn't change.
Still... I can't deny that they have an .800 winning percentage. And they are just a couple of agonizing missed shots at the final buzzers from being tied with Golden State. You've got all the objective evidence on your side.
It's the wrong question, in a way, IMO. I think focusing on what Tony can give you setting up the offense is fair, but when it comes to the playoffs, the real issue is the mismatch, or better said, how can the Spurs effectively hide him on defense so he can still be there for the offense. And that's a puzzle that's much more complicated to solve with the current team makeup. The easiest, most obvious solution, which Pop has tried at times in previous seasons is simply play Manu. But then this becomes a Manu problem, and stops being a Parker problem.
This is not a new problem either, realistically the team has had it since Tim stopped being a phenomenal anchor many seasons ago. Against most teams or bad coaches (see Terry Stotts), you can find a guy to hide him on or don't even have to bother since they won't go at him, but against good coaches (see Carslile in '14, Doc in '15, Billy Donovan in '16), they're going to go mercilessly at him to break down the defense. Then you gotta hope Manu has at least something left in the tank on D, and that's a much more difficult question (lol 38 year old Manu defending Westbrook for long stretches last playoffs).
The fact that Pau hasn't really looked any better on defense than Tim without any legs just doesn't inspire much confidence either. But then again, the season is long, and per the usual, you always need a stroke of luck here or there to win a championship, so there's always a chance.
Last edited by ElNono; 01-05-2017 at 01:23 AM.
I mean, with the current flaws on defense, this team should be more centered towards an explosive offense and trying to outscore teams (a la Pringles), much like Pop tried to do from 2009 until Kawhi came around. Back then our obvious flaw was perimeter defense already, after Bowen's departure/retirement. Even though we were winning 50+ games a season, we really couldn't sniff a championship playing that way. Now you could shore up the perimeter a bit, but Manu is older and it's more difficult to orchestrate the offense with an all-defense lineup, and on top of that, rim protection is flaky. That's why I think Pop (wisely?) went more towards an ISO offense for Kawhi/LMA. It makes sense with the roster makeup, but it makes the team completely top heavy, and leaves much less room for error.
That's about as on-point as it gets.
But I will say that if Tim quit being a phenomenal anchor many seasons ago, he was still a pretty-damned-good anchor up until December of last season. He was really looking amazing on defense to start last season. And his defensive stand against the Clippers in the '15 Playoffs remains one of my favorite Duncan memories. I've mentioned it before, but he single-handedly held off those two big monsters on the Clippers, which shouldn't have been possible for a younger big man. It got overshadowed by the first round exit, but it was absolutely heroic.
I'd go so far as to say that Pau has not even been as good on D as the post-December Tim of last year. Tim was struggling to score, even before that injury. But afterward, he was still more of an anchor in the middle than Pau.
That's what I'm saying. It's not an indictment on Tim, it's the fact that this Pau doesn't even look like no-legged Tim post-December last year.
Then there's the Dedmon angle. But, will Pop go to him early and often enough when the situation arises? That's the million dollar question, and it's fairly unclear at this point.
IMO yes. This years Parker is playing much better consistantly. Saying it's impossible that he's better because he's a year older is idiotic. This years Parker is much more focused and positively aggressive.
Parker's defensive issues are being massively overstated here. If teams want to change their gameplans to go after Tony's man, more power to them. Like for GS, I'd love to see Klay get more touches than Curry or Durant. Gone are the days of having guys like Beli who the Spurs had to make sure stayed as far away from the action as possible. As I've said, Tony's actually done his job in the post-season recently, even if that job is to be the designated weakness to direct the flow of the opponent's offense.
As for Gasol (and LMA), it's still a matter of effort. Pau is a of a rim-protector when motivated. I think Pop needs to stagger Gasol and LMA as much as possible, but if Pau is truly locked in during the post-season, people are going to be surprised with how good he looks.
Pretty much this
The problem is the Spurs have VERY little margin for error. They can't afford LMA shooting a low percentage or Kawhi not playing like an MVP. There just isn't enough consistency from enough players to win a le. You need a big 3 in this era to go all the way and the Spurs have a big 1 and 1/2. It's still a superstars league at the end of the day.
They only need to make Tony's man be part of the offensive set. It can be just as simple as having Tony's guy come over and set a screen. In your example, Klay doesn't need to be handling the ball or finish the play, he can come over, screen Danny, then you have Tony having to cover for a Curry penetration or shot, and the help that requires, and the ensuing breakdown. It's difficult at this stage for Tony to fight through screens, be able to always go above the screen, challenge the shot, have the lateral movement to keep up with guys like Westbrook, Curry or CP3 penetrating (Manu too), etc. He is targeted because he almost always requires help (especially on the P&R), and that triggers the help the helper, and it's likely the easiest path to get the Spurs defense scrambling.
Even if you didn't target him directly on defense, there's a bunch of other strategies that teams use, like to make his guy run a marathon on the court (like the Spurs used to do with Tony when he was younger and the other team would hide somebody on him) and then it's difficult to ask Tony to be fresh to run the offense. It's really an obvious mismatch to exploit.
That said, it doesn't mean it's the end of the world. Sometimes you have to pick your poison, and you pick right or luck out. That's why the games are played.
This is the worst era in terms of parity in the league. There are more teams than ever, this year's Spurs team is probably the worst since 2011. In any other era this team is closer to a 6th seed. We have the West conference in the worst shape it has been in the past 16-17 years. This is a paper tiger team, much like last year's team. There are way too many flaws for this team to win a le. The only hope is if we get a major injury to LeBron and Durant.
It is what it is.
I agree the league is generally crap, but I'm not that pessimistic as Amused. I've seen less talented teams catch fire at the right time, get the right breaks and win it all (No disrespect to Dirk but the Mavs come to mind, for example). I definitely would be much more confident if we defended better (and I don't disagree with Chinook about Pau's proficiency defending the rim with more effort, but it's hard to know what you're going to get when you don't see it every night). I loved Spurs teams that needed a stop and more times than not were able to get it, and not by pure luck.
I don't think anyone is as pessimistic as me
However, while the league is crap I'm not sold on this year's Spurs team at all. This is the same team that had LMA go off for 45 points in a playoff game...and lose. I also don't trust Pau defensively and while it is nice to see TP pick it up lately, we all know at his age this just isn't sustainable.
This is a team that struggled at home with Portland and Phoenix (although Portland did put in an admirable effort against GS earlier tonight). The Spurs can't afford to have half the team struggling, and I don't trust that LMA will be a beast every night, that Pop will extend Dedmon's minutes over Pau's in the playoffs, and as much as I love Kawhi, we have seen him have some bad games over the past two seasons in the playoffs. Not a slight against him, but he needs to be in MVP form every night in the playoffs if they want to beat the Warriors or Cavs. Spurs will still struggle with speedy PG's, and put this team against any team with solid bigs and they'll struggle.
It's only January and I do think this team has yet to hit their ceiling, but consistency especially in the playoffs has been in issue for this team over the past couple years, and with no Duncan I think this is a transition year for the Spurs and most likely a second round exit. No shame in that.
In regards to the Mavs, Dirk had one of the greatest performances in NBA playoff history. I don't think Kawhi or LMA will have that. I agree those Mavs caught fire at the right time, but I think both the Warriors and Cavs are better than any of those 2011 teams outside of Dallas in those playoffs.
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