ESPN.com's John Hollinger's Player Rankings

[antonis50]

TD>KG.
KG's numbers are better on paper, but he plays alot more minutes than Timmy.
I love KG the fantasy basketball player, 'cause he plays meaningless minutes during the regular season just to get a triple double.

[Marcus Bryant]

Minnesota has had one of the more efficent offenses for quite some time now. So you want to surround Tim with two of the three best shooters MN ever had, but forgetting the fact that KG did what he did without them most of his time there? Why don't you shove a Peeler (out of the NBA two years removed from starting 2 guard) and Felipe Lopez (likewise at this point )around him on the wings like KG has done? Tim is a better scorer than KG, most people recognize that. Its the fact that KG does a lot of the other stuff better. Neither one is "clearly" better than the other. I think a good way of putting it, if positions were blurred, KG would be a 3.5 PF/SF and TD would be a 4.5 C/PF. Everyones knock on KG here is because of the position differential. Sure he's not as good of a post up defender scorer. He's still pretty ing good. Theres a lot less of a difference between the two here than there is outside the paint.

Yeah, but KG is no Jordan. Over the last 10 seasons there have been 3 dominant players: MJ, Shaq and TD. Dominance as in championships.

LOL at Marcus Bryant. You want to add 4th quarter scoring in? "But when KG does it its stat padding" It doesn't go both ways.

Sure it does. He gets the rock a lot during games and he struggles in the 4th. Not hard to understand.

[ambchang]

Minnesota has had one of the more efficent offenses for quite some time now. So you want to surround Tim with two of the three best shooters MN ever had, but forgetting the fact that KG did what he did without them most of his time there? Why don't you shove a Peeler (out of the NBA two years removed from starting 2 guard) and Felipe Lopez (likewise at this point )around him on the wings like KG has done? Tim is a better scorer than KG, most people recognize that. Its the fact that KG does a lot of the other stuff better. Neither one is "clearly" better than the other. I think a good way of putting it, if positions were blurred, KG would be a 3.5 PF/SF and TD would be a 4.5 C/PF. Everyones knock on KG here is because of the position differential. Sure he's not as good of a post up defender scorer. He's still pretty ing good. Theres a lot less of a difference between the two here than there is outside the paint.


LOL at Marcus Bryant. You want to add 4th quarter scoring in? "But when KG does it its stat padding" It doesn't go both ways.

I don't question that, I believe KG is a great player on both offense and defense, but because of the nature of their games, Duncan is much easier to build around. , you can argue that KG is a better at passing the ball, but that is the nature of his game, because he is, technically, a point forward, and he actually handles the ball in the half court set a LOT of times. On the other hand, Duncan is a point centre in the sense that he directs the offense of the Spurs. he doesn't really handle the ball that much, but when Duncan is on the floor, the offense starts with the ball going to him.
And I believe that Peeler could be a decent SG in the Spurs system. We likewise had Jaren Jackson, a very erratic Stephen Jackson (he wasn't as good as he is now), made a 96 year old Steve Kerr into a playoff hero, had Avery Johnson at the point, a player many said could never lead a championship, an extremely young PG in Parker in 2003.
Duncan's game put much more pressure on the opposing team. KG is a very very tall SF, and it is difficult to find the right pieces to fit around him. But that's not a slight. Jordan was unconventional, and he requires a certain type of player around him to succeed (tough interior rebounders and defender, a PG who just stands there and shoots 3pters, and a point forward in Pippen to direct the offense).

[sickdsm]

Peeler's playing overseas. Go ahead and sign him then.

[kskonn]

Personally I think the question will be , what came first the chicken or the egg? What i mean by that is a lot of players were not great players or even good players when they came to the spurs. Did Tim duncan make them better or were the spurs just lucky in landing those guys.? Now with Tims Dominance and ability to play team ball guys want to play with him, (see finley and van exel) he is attracting talent because of his ability to make people better. There is a reason that proven guys that the spurs bring on to the team succeed the way they do, same with the younger. There is a reason finley picked duncan over shaq, and van exel picked duncan over mcgrady and yao.

[ambchang]

Peeler's playing overseas. Go ahead and sign him then.

I am not saying that Peeler will be a better player than the players the Spurs currently have, but with a player like Jaren Jackson at the 2 guard, the Spurs STILL managed to win a championship.
I don't suppose you can argue that Jaren Jackson had a better, or even equal, career to Peeler.
The Spurs have Ginobili, Barry, Finley at the two now, can I help it that the players are flocking to sign with the Spurs just for the chance to play with Duncan and have a good chance at winning a ring?

[sickdsm]

Hold up there, since when have they been "flocking" and attracting talent? Only this year. The closest Tim Duncan ever came to attracting talent before was Rasho Nesterovic. What other big name superstar with capspace on his team has struck out when it comes to known big time FA's? Crickets is all I hear. Barry came and proceeded to suck. What guy has came over to SA and blew up and when/if he left sucked? Not too terriblly many have. Around the league, McHale has been known for bringing in guys that for some reason or another have bounced around, been cut, dissapointment, etc. and made them into a wanted commodity. Is it McHale or is it KG? Face it, the biggest SA has attracted with Duncan there prior to this year have been Barry and Rasho. Both underachieving dissapointments and as I speak the FO is trying like to get rid of there contracts.

Is everyone in this thread one year old? Because there is a history beyond this years free agent pool.

Is it ironic that it comes during the same time as the new amnesty rule? I don't know.


As for finley, you might remember that he was HEAVILY considering the wolves. Even though there not a le contender, even though he would have made less money, even though its cold as and there's not much of a downtown district. Miami, Mn, SA were his three finalists. Alledegedly some have said it did come down to MN and SA. Funny, why was KG and co an option with all the knocks agaisnt them? Because NBA players CONSISTANTLY name KG as one of their faverite players they would love to play with.

[Marcus Bryant]

So the Spurs have had trouble recruiting quality free agents and they've still managed to win 3 les. No .

-MB

[bdubya]

His average rating for the Pistons (counting only guys who were on the playoff roster) is 13.94. The frontcourt (Wallaces, Dice & Tay) averages out to a "slightly better than average" 16.84, with nobody even rating an 18.

As for the current champs, they've got a total of 4 players rated better than average, they've got a starting small forward who rates an atrocious 9.53 (one whole point better than our boy Delfino), and a couple of new free-agent acquisitions who are sub-par.

So my questions are: who dosed Hollinger, and with how many tabs? (I'm guessing "Walton" and "a LOT").

[ambchang]

Hold up there, since when have they been "flocking" and attracting talent? Only this year. The closest Tim Duncan ever came to attracting talent before was Rasho Nesterovic. What other big name superstar with capspace on his team has struck out when it comes to known big time FA's? Crickets is all I hear. Barry came and proceeded to suck. What guy has came over to SA and blew up and when/if he left sucked? Not too terriblly many have. Around the league, McHale has been known for bringing in guys that for some reason or another have bounced around, been cut, dissapointment, etc. and made them into a wanted commodity. Is it McHale or is it KG? Face it, the biggest SA has attracted with Duncan there prior to this year have been Barry and Rasho. Both underachieving dissapointments and as I speak the FO is trying like to get rid of there contracts.

Is everyone in this thread one year old? Because there is a history beyond this years free agent pool.

Is it ironic that it comes during the same time as the new amnesty rule? I don't know.


As for finley, you might remember that he was HEAVILY considering the wolves. Even though there not a le contender, even though he would have made less money, even though its cold as and there's not much of a downtown district. Miami, Mn, SA were his three finalists. Alledegedly some have said it did come down to MN and SA. Funny, why was KG and co an option with all the knocks agaisnt them? Because NBA players CONSISTANTLY name KG as one of their faverite players they would love to play with.

Still two more than Garnett ever attracted. Besides, who have become wanted commodities? Cassell? Sprewell? Wally? Olowakandi?
The Spurs is one of the smallest TV market of all the NBA cities, and still managed to attract Barry (for far less $), Rasho, Finley and NVE, not bad at all. Besides, other than Stephen Jackson, there has not been any notable players who chose to sign elsewhere after playing with the Spurs. Manu decided to stay with the Spurs despite the lure of the Nuggets, Parker never even seriously entertained other deals.
As for Finley considering the Wolves, this is really the first time I have heard. I have heard the Spurs, Miami, Phoenix, and Chicago. Perhaps he considered the Wolves, but the frontrunners has always been those four (well, not so much Chicago ....)
As for your comment on KG being the favourite player to play with, I don't know, and I am sure Shaq and Duncan would rank high on that list too.