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yeah, that's what I thought...
Ok. That is very optomistic that the mavs win 60 games. I can at least say they are better than Houston. Avery might be new to being a coach but he has alot of experience with good and great coaches. He learned alot from Popovich's great defense as a player and Don Nelson's offense. Combine that with his leadership of motivating players should prove to be a winning formula.
He also has the advantage of having a training camp this year to do what he wants done on the floor. I would say anywhere from 55-60 games is their range. Houston anywhere from 50-55 wins.
I want some of that action. I'd bet my whole virtual pie that Dallas won't win 60.Look man, though I liked the Mavs more when Nash and Finley where around, (that was a of a team) I do like them still. That said, I am 100% positive they won't win 60+ games.
Let's do this: (Kori, maybe you can help out here)
I bet you $500 vbookies (that is all you have) that Dallas will not win 60+ games. Plain and simple. Put your vmoney where your vmouth is.
Wow...harsh. But funny. I love Duncan's fro in your avatar.
Kerr also predicted a year ago that the mavs wouldn't even make the playoffs. He lost all credibility after saying that.
I believe Kerr said it right.
1. San Antonio
2. Houston
3. Dallas
4. Memphis
5. New Orleans/Oklahoma City
The key for the Spurs is staying healthy. If they can, they should easily win 60+ games this season. Houston should win between 55 and 59 games. Dallas should come in with 50-54. This should be an interesting season for all three Texas teams.
Dallas will win at least 55 games. What have they don't lose 5 games in the standings. Finley flat out sucked last year. His injury really limited him.
You can say it, but it won't make it so.
You basically swapped Finley for Christie. That and "a whole year now under AJ's defensive emphasis" are your big offseason changes from last year. I'll go ahead and give you continued reasonable development of Howard, Daniels, and Harris.
You came back to beat the Rockets because you changed the gameplan and ran them into the ground, especially game seven. You exposed their severe lack of athleticism. But, even then, you never were able to stop TMac or Yao. You showed no power game and Yao owned Dampier while rail thin TMac's defense made Dirk look like a CBA'er. They had NO power forward during the whole series and Dirk still disappeared.
How did Houston improve and deal with their weaknesses that you exposed? They added athleticism at the starting 1 and 4 spots with Alston and Swift, more athleticism at backup 2 and 3 with Anderson, and Head(rookie may or may not contribute much) at the 1 and 2. They also have Howard back and healthy at the 4.
They only finished 5 games or so behind you last year when they got off to a horrible start and finished hot when TMac found his niche on the team, plus the addtions of Wesley, Sura and Barry. So after a 7 game series with them, an offseason of virtually no change by the Mavs, an offseason of targeted improvement by an upcoming Rocket team, and you seriously expect that the Rockets won't be able to make up those 5 games on you?
PS...don't forget, they're already as good defensively as you only HOPE AJ can get make the Mavs. Big difference, being and hoping.
Last edited by totalspurshomer; 10-20-2005 at 10:39 PM.
If Dirk develops his post up game he should be able dominate Mcgrady. Swift has no offense so I'm not worried about him. Alston is a headcase and poor on defense. Wesley, Barry, and Sura are getting older and these players are the reason for the big improvement for Houston from earlier in the season. Houston going small was a good strategy against Dallas. It forced Dampier out of the game because Dirk couldn't guard Mcgrady or Jon Barry so he had to guard Yao. Mcgrady at the 4 is a nightmare matchup for Dallas but putting Swift out there gives Dirk somebody that he can guard. Houston did what Phoenix did by going small. Going back to normal will take away the mismatch that highly favored Houston.
Swift's offense will come off of Yao and TMac. He was brought in for his hops around the basket on both ends of the court. The lack of a tall with hops was a shortcoming against the Mavs. It should be a nice rotation of Yao, Deke, Swift, and Howard in combos of offense and defense, depending on game situations.
I wouldn't dismiss Alston so easily. He was acquired days after JVG promised his team he wouldn't be bringing in any knuckleheads who wouldn't buy into the team. Would JVG really not do enough homework on the guy? Consider the situation in Toronto, compare that to Houston(JVG, TMac, Yao), and it's hard to believe he won't know his place and how lucky he is to have it. I've heard people claim he's a shoot first point, but I've heard just as many say he's a pure, pass first point. Both sides say they're right, so we'll just have to see which one Alston turns out to be.
The key for Dallas was making Houston go small to give them whatever athleticism they could muster(not much). If they're able to stay big with Yao, athletic with Swift and TMac, and a more athletic,deeper backcourt that can only be better for Houston, not worse.
Alston hasn't impressed me at all. I saw he is undersized and Terry should be able to post him up or Daniels. Swift might be athletic but he has no jump shot which is very important to Houston for spacing reasons. Mike James leaving takes away their strongest guard who gave Dallas's guards some trouble. He also was a good defender so replacing him with Alston is not an improvement. If Howard does play he couldn't guard Dirk or Josh Howard. There are mismatches there. Wesley continues to get older so Houston has quan y guards but not quality. I expect Dampier to have a better showing now that he is in shape. Diop also can guard Yao. Dallas is a very young team and all these players are going to develop more. Harris, Daniels, Howard, Diop, Dirk, and Van Horn being healthy is key. Terry playing off the ball more because Christie and Howard have point guard skills. It is worthless talking about it but seeing Dallas in the preseason I have been impressed with their athleticism.
If Dirk develops a post up game? He's 27 years old. This is his eighth year as a pro. He's 7 feet tall. Don't you think that he would have a post game by now if he was ever going to have one?
I don't want to rail too hard on dirk because that mother er can score, but he will never be an MVP if he can't use his size to his advantage down low. He's just too limited. You put a big 3 on him who can play D and his effectiveness is severely hampered.
And I was at that Houston-San Antonio preseason game (and yes I know it's just the preseason, but...) Swift looked like a baller. He was blocking Timmy's shots and hitting jumpers from all over the floor. He was streaky in Memphis, but saying that he has "no offense" is just an incorrect statement. I mean, the guy averaged 10 points in 20 minutes per game last year. That's pretty decent offense for a part that doesn't fit.
Stackhouse, Christie and Armstrong are actually older than that trio you named.
Dirk? Defense? What?!? And who guards McGrady? Howard? I think he already demonstrated that he can't handle that task in the first round last year.
Don't short Van Gundy...that guy is a uva coach and will find a way to exploit the defensive short-comings of the Mavs while feeding them a steady dose of TMac and Yao. Yao will mangle Dampier like a rag doll.
Houston is clearly the better team. They might finish within 2 or 3 games of each other depending on injuries and such, but neither has a shot at 60 games. That's written in stone. And in 7 games, right now before the start of the season, I'd pick Houston.
I'd like to hear why you'd pick Dallas
Dirk never developed a post game because he didn't have to. It was Nash that did all the work for Dirk taking outside jump shots. When Nash left Dirk worked mainly on his ball handling. Also Armstrong is the 12th man on Dallas and doesn't matter. The main guards Dallas will be playing are Harris, Daniels, Stackhouse, Christie, and Terry. That is clearly younger than Houston's backcourt of Wesley, J. Barry, Sura, and R. Alston. You are greatly underrating Dallas's upcoming players that will continue to get better. Dallas started getting the athletes last year to play defense but now it is completed and I see Dallas being a pretty good defensive team. Maybe a top 10. Listening to your ideas of the mavs you haven't seen Dirk in a while. He is actually a good defender now. He does it all for Dallas. Score, rebound, steals, and blocks. So Van Gundy made Jon Barry and Mcgrady a tough matchup for Dirk.
I don't think a coach can have that much influence in the game. He made a good decision with that lineup but having Swift would force him to play bigger.
Is this supposed to be Mavs talk or Spurs talk? No matter how you slice it, Mavs will get their asses waxed in the playoffs - by either the Spurs or someone else.Dirk never developed a post game because he didn't have to. It was Nash that did all the work for Dirk taking outside jump shots. When Nash left Dirk worked mainly on his ball handling. Also Armstrong is the 12th man on Dallas and doesn't matter. The main guards Dallas will be playing are Harris, Daniels, Stackhouse, Christie, and Terry. That is clearly younger than Houston's backcourt of Wesley, J. Barry, Sura, and R. Alston. You are greatly underrating Dallas's upcoming players that will continue to get better. Dallas started getting the athletes last year to play defense but now it is completed and I see Dallas being a pretty good defensive team. Maybe a top 10. Listening to your ideas of the mavs you haven't seen Dirk in a while. He is actually a good defender now. He does it all for Dallas. Score, rebound, steals, and blocks. So Van Gundy made Jon Barry and Mcgrady a tough matchup for Dirk.
I don't think a coach can have that much influence in the game. He made a good decision with that lineup but having Swift would force him to play bigger.
The only reason why Dirk never developed a post up game is because hes a whoossy! He hated the contact. He has improved in this aspect no doubt but when the going gets tough, he wont go in and bang it. He will just revert to his outside shot. If it falls good for him. If it doesnt then Dallas is dead meat.
If that were true, do you realize how absolutely stupid that would make Dirk and the Mavs? What kind of superstar doesn't do everything they can in the offseasons to improve and round out their games? And what kind of team wouldn't want their franchise player to develop an all around game to make himself more unstoppable?
Can you imagine Duncan saying, "my bank shot is awesome, that's good enough for me, no need to work on post moves"? Or Hakeem, "my college reputation is defense, so I'm never going to use my hops and quickness to develop an offensive arsenal that'll make me unstoppable."
What franchise player in their right mind doesn't do everything possible to use their gifts and develop as much as possible?
I'm sure Dirk worked on it before. Probably as much as Duncan works on 3's. He never used it before because Nash was the playmaker. Dirk's role was revolved Nash and a post game wasn't used before. Now is solo purpose during the season is his post game. That is a big deal now for Avery's offense.
The Mavs suck.
They have a better chance of missing the playoffs than they do of winning 60 games.
There is no way the mavs will miss the playoffs. They are at least a 55 win team. Of course haters just say because they haven't watched them to know how good they are. I'm waiting for another blowout against the spurs. I loved Kerr kept making excuses like if Duncan was there it wouldn't be a blowout. After that the spurs start winning without Duncan so that excuse from Kerr is off. They still had Horry and Mohammad to play pf. The mavs just owned them than. I doubt that same mavs team would all of a sudden struggle to make the playoffs.The Mavs suck.
They have a better chance of missing the playoffs than they do of winning 60 games.
Ok folks, give the guy a break. He is just supporting his team, and that's just fine. The Mavs will not win 60+ games, but they will for sure make it to the playoffs.
On the other hand Mavsfan, don't start the trash talk against the Spurs, in a Spurs forum, cause you're just looking for trouble.
If you really think last year's Mavs where better than the Spurs and back it up with a Duncanless win, then you are delusional.
Don't forget you are talking about the WORLD CHAPIONS.
I agree Kerr's got it right.
It's a good thing that you are not putting your vbookie money where your mouth is or you would be broke for sure!
Seriously! Look, we didn't win 60 games last year and we were much, much better last year than Dallas is.
You gotta be careful with that stuff you're smokin! Must be strong. Watch out or some of these posters will ask if you got any more to go around!
I hope that you remembered to set your alarm clock! No matter, we'll wake you up right on time, Nov 1.
Without a serious low post scoring threat, you don't make it to the elite.
I won't say the Mavs suck. I'll leave that to others cuz they depends on how you define suck, but the man has a point when he says they have a better chance of missing the playoffs than they do of winning 60 games. That part is true.The Mavs suck.
They have a better chance of missing the playoffs than they do of winning 60 games.
We all know that every seriously good team has a great low post scorer/ post player.
I call this the high low rule: to be high at the top of the list you gotta have someone who can score down low
Spurs: Duncan
Pacers: Jermaine
Heat: Shaq
Pistons: Rasheed (whatever else we say about him, he's got tons of talent and I don't particularly care for him)
Houston: Yao (he only has two basic problems: foul trouble and stamina), but most of you all know he's got skillz
Phoenix: Stoudamire
Or look at the great teams in the past:
recent Lakers: Shaq
Lakers: Kareem
Celtics: McHale and Parrish
There is, of course, an exception if you have the best player to ever play the game in Michael Jordan combined with a top 50 in Pippen. Dallas doesn't have Michael so the Michael exception to the rule does not apply.
Houston: Olajuwon
Plus, you also have the two man rule:
Jordan and Pippen, Shaq and Kobe,
Majic and Kareem, Bird and McHale,
Duncan and Robinson, Duncan and Ginobili!
Nash and Stoudamire, Yao and TMac,
Stockton and Malone,
Most of the time you need two awesome players to become the best or one of the best.
So you've got the two rules: the high low rule and the two man rule.
The Mavs violate both of these rules and so what the man said is right on the money, more likely to miss the playoffs than win 60 games.
The Detroit Pistons didn't have much for a low post threat. Howard and Daniels are good postup players. They just aren't big men. Anyways I'm tired of arguing my point because it gets repe ive. I would bet vbookie that Dallas will win at least 55 games or be ahead of Houston.
All right, let's see if they can set it up and put some vbookie money on the table and I don't want to hear any excuses at the end of the season about injuries or anything else. There may be a lot of takers on this bet.
I do think Rasheed posting up is a serious offensive threat and he did to us a lot in the Finals on important games. He basically kept the Pistons close to us in game 7. Then you add Ben for defense as defensive player of the year and Rasheed is long and athletic and Prince who is long. It's tough to score inside of them which is why they shut Parker down when he overpenetrated.
The Pistons have Rasheed and McDyess. They seem to have no low post threat to you cause they dont just go to anyone guy. Any of the starting lineup can light it up and they spread the points around.
And as for Dallas making the playoffs, On paper they should be able to make it. But anything can happen. Injuries could set in. If Dirk is out for the season would they make the playoffs? They would then struggle.
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