Clayton from ESPN!

[Marcus Bryant]

Leave it Buddy Holly to get the thread off topic.

Anyways, the point remains that Austin + SA is a pretty damn attractive NFL market.

[TheWriter]

Those are 2004 estimates off of a message board. I used 2005 estimates from a comprehensive worldwide project containing every national census listing available, including the US census from http://www.census.gov.

Skyscraperpage.com? What the is that, anyway?

Do you not know how to read?

The numbers you posted are a calculation! From the growth percentage during the 1990-2000.

What I posted are statistics from the US Census.

Skyscraperpage.com is website.

combined consolidated and non-consolidated metros -- i.e. the true* picture.

1 New York-Newark-Bridgeport, NY-NJ-CT-PA 21858830
2 Los Angeles-Long Beach-Riverside, CA 17516110
3 Chicago-Naperville-Michigan City, IL-IN-WI 9608458
4 Washington-Baltimore-Northern Virginia, DC-MD-VA-WV 7986615
5 San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland, CA 7159693
6 Philadelphia-Camden-Vineland, PA-NJ-DE-MD 5951797
7 Dallas-Fort Worth, TX 5899336
8 Boston-Worcester-Manchester, MA-NH 5809111
9 Detroit-Warren-Flint, MI 5428855
10 Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Miami Beach, FL 5361723
11 Houston-Baytown-Huntsville, TX 5280752
12 Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Gainesville, GA 5034362
13 Seattle-Tacoma-Olympia, WA 3763569
14 Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale, AZ 3715360
15 Minneapolis-St. Paul-St. Cloud, MN-WI 3437464
16 Cleveland-Akron-Elyria, OH 2942303
17 San Diego-Carlsbad-San Marcos, CA 2931714
18 St. Louis-St. Charles-Farmington, MO-IL 2824778
19 Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, FL 2587967
20 Denver-Aurora-Boulder, CO 2566162
21 Pittsburgh-New Castle, PA 2494949
22 Sacramento--Arden-Arcade--Truckee, CA-NV 2159756
23 Cincinnati-Middletown-Wilmington, OH-KY-IN 2100501
24 Charlotte-Gastonia-Salisbury, NC-SC 2067810
25 Portland-Vancouver-Beaverton, OR-WA 2064336
26 Kansas City-Overland Park-Kansas City, MO-KS 1992836
27 Indianapolis-Anderson-Columbus, IN 1939349
28 Orlando-The Villages, FL 1922412
29 Columbus-Marion-Chillicothe, OH 1920601
30 San Antonio, TX 1854050
31 Milwaukee-Racine-Waukesha, WI 1709926
32 Las Vegas-Paradise-Pahrump, NV 1688385
33 Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC 1644250
34 Providence-New Bedford-Fall River, RI-MA 1628808
35 Salt Lake City-Ogden-Clearfield, UT 1541091
36 Nashville-Davidson--Murfreesboro--Columbia, TN 1470571
37 Raleigh-Durham-Cary, NC 1467434
38 Austin-Round Rock, TX 1412271
39 New Orleans-Metairie-Bogalusa, LA 1363750
40 Greensboro--Winston-Salem--High Point, NC 1335217
41 Louisville-Elizabethtown-Scottsburg, KY-IN 1334002
42 Grand Rapids-Wyoming-Holland, MI 1306768
43 Hartford-West Hartford-Willimantic, CT 1298907
44 Memphis, TN-MS-AR 1250293
45 Buffalo-Niagara-Cattaraugus, NY 1237557
46 Jacksonville, FL 1225381
47 Oklahoma City-Shawnee, OK 1211438
48 Louisville, KY-IN 1200847
49 Birmingham-Hoover-Cullman, AL 1161382
50 Richmond, VA 1154317
51 Albany-Schenectady-Amsterdam, NY 1141637
52 Rochester-Batavia-Seneca Falls, NY 1136263
53 Dayton-Springfield-Greenville, OH 1081164
54 Fresno-Madera, CA 1005723

[TheWriter]

Leave it Buddy Holly to get the thread off topic.

I did? Who was the first to a link? Who was the first to insult.

That's right... not me.

[Marcus Bryant]

Oh man, I don't give a what you got from your city manager wannabe circle jerk forum. The point is that Austin + SA would be a great market for the NFL. Whether you like it or not, Austin metro has a pretty damn solid corporate base and a sizable affluent and football fan base.

If you want to compare SA v Austin, start a thread in that forum.

[TheWriter]

Oh man, I don't give a what you got from your city manager wannabe circle jerk forum. The point is that Austin + SA would be a great market for the NFL. Whether you like it or not, Austin metro has a pretty damn solid corporate base and a sizable affluent and football fan base.

If you want to compare SA v Austin, start a thread in that forum.

I'm not comparing any place or anyone, just stating the facts (population numbers) in this thread. Which seems to have gotten your panties in a bunch.

[j-6]

So let's see. Austin's 1.5 and SA's 1.7 add up to 3.2M, or the equivalent of Minneapolis-St. Paul. Which is easily into the lower half of the top-20, right? The problem, which has been written about a of a lot in here, is that they're seventy miles apart. Which is easier, getting either people from SA to Austin, Austin to SA, or making people from each drive halfway?

I don't think this will work, especially since I don't even think metro LA is 70 miles from tip to tip on I-5. And inviting Austin in as a partner is one thing, one which I think is a much better idea than using the city as an afterthought and a way to get stat s off and sell extra tickets. There has to be some sort of joint effort, not McCheese taking the ball and Wynn tagging along.

[TheWriter]

So let's see. Austin's 1.5 and SA's 1.7 add up to 3.2M,

God you're a brainless idiot.

[Obstructed_View]

God you're a brainless idiot.

I guess there's a reason you aren't called "TheMathematician"

[TheWriter]

I guess there's a reason you aren't called "TheMathematician"

Because my hobby isn't math?

Oh, you're being sarcastic not literal... dumb me.

[Extra Stout]

God you're a brainless idiot.

If he were to use your numbers instead, his point would remain the same.

But of course you don't care about his point. You care that everybody believe that San Antonio is The Most Superest Bestest Place Ever Featuring Pretty Pictures of Buildings And Other Pictures You Took of Your TV Screen.

[TheWriter]

If he were to use your numbers instead, his point would remain the same.

But of course you don't care about his point. You care that everybody believe that San Antonio is The Most Superest Bestest Place Ever Featuring Pretty Pictures of Buildings And Other Pictures You Took of Your TV Screen.

Nope. The point is sound. The numbers aren't. All I'm doing is giving him the correct numbers.

Never said his point was incorrect. I agree with it.

[j-6]

So here's the dilemma. We have somewhere between 3.2 and 3.3 million people, roughly divided in half by seventy miles of interstate. We all know Texans don't mind driving a decent ways to go somewhere, and we also know that Austin can't be a stepchild for this to work properly. And we know both cities love football more than anything than cheap beer and political scandals.

We also know that the commish wants the team in a connected metropolis six times larger and that Los Angeles has at least one stadium proposal in the pipeline.

San Antonio, of course, has the Alamodome, a twelve year old facility built for the NFL and outdated before a team ever played there.

So, what's the answer? A refurbished Alamodome that will become obsolete as soon as the paint dries in the new luxury boxes? Getting Texas State to pitch in and dropping a new facility in San Marcos? You don't rename a state school like the former SWT something like that if they don't want to go Division One in football, right? Putting the team in DKR-Memorial until someone comes up with a better idea?

[samikeyp]

Putting the team in DKR-Memorial until someone comes up with a better idea?

That would work and there is precedent. Carolina played two years at Clemson before their stadium was ready.

[TheWriter]

The Alamodome works. Many many people ahve said it already. That the Dome now is good enough. Of course you have to add the luxury seats.

No way is there going to a stadium built in New Braunfels or really anywhere to be honest.

As of now, Hardberger is saying the Alamodome will do for the foreseeable future.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

And if in the future the Saints need s new stadium, most likely it'll be built in the San Antonio area.

[MannyIsGod]

Do you really think I wouldn't look up stats with an annoying little like you trolling around?

1,739,695 - San Antonio

1,503,128 - Austin

http://www.world-gazetteer.com/wg.ph...aohdq&va=&pt=a

Oh , maybe its the wine I've had tonight but you just made me laugh my ass off man. Nice!

[j-6]

The Alamodome works. Many many people ahve said it already. That the Dome now is good enough. Of course you have to add the luxury seats.

No way is there going to a stadium built in New Braunfels or really anywhere to be honest.

As of now, Hardberger is saying the Alamodome will do for the foreseeable future.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

And if in the future the Saints need s new stadium, most likely it'll be built in the San Antonio area.

What a load of . Of course the mayor said that he thinks it's good enough. He's trying to lure a team in. And just because it fits you and Vashner's stadium needs doesn't mean that the NF'ingL thinks so.

Benson has been crying for a new stadium for years, and the Superdome is (well, was) far superior than the Alamodome. Look it up on your "public facilities of the United States" message board. Just because New Orleans has the Quarter doesn't mean that they automatically qualified to host the Super Bowl nine times. The facility had to be top-notch. And apparently that wasn't good enough for Benson. And now the same town who underwhelmingly voted for an arena for the NBA champs six years ago is going to get asked to bend over for Tommy Boy and the underachieving Saints.

Have you ever been to a real NFL stadium? Even that dump in Irving qualifies. It'll take a lot of renovation to the Dome to bring it to NFL standards...and by the time that's completed, New Orleans will have the Superdome completely rebuilt and ready to go and Los Angeles' renovation of the Coliseum will be either well underway or complete.

This is the problem with the whole situation. The Alamodome won't be good enough and by the time it is made adequate, it won't be anymore. For forms sake, a renovated white elephant for second rate college bowls and high school games. And there will be no national sympathy for San Antonio due to the actions of McCheese and company.

It's not like San Antonio spends top dollar on anything. And unfortunately, that's what the NFL and Benson are going to want.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Getting Texas State to pitch in and dropping a new facility in San Marcos? You don't rename a state school like the former SWT something like that if they don't want to go Division One in football, right?

I'll step in here...

You're right. The only problem is that there is almost no way for State to go D1-A in the immediate future.

We don't have the attendance numbers (although our run right now is helping out).

Our athletics department couldn't promote itself out of a paper bag if it tried. Why haven't they tried to reach out to San Antonio or even little New Braunfels?

If you go to the Target or Wal-Mart here, there is NO State presence whatsoever.

There is more UT and A&M gear in those stores than they sell at athletic events.

Granted, the dept. just hired a new Marketing Director and a slew of e-mails from a rabid base just got us replica jerseys that don't look like ass (at least they tell us that they're coming).

State needs a lot more to become D1-A. We're (The Star) looking at some of the other schools to recently make the jump and what would be necessary for a series to be published (hopefully) before the end of the year.

[TheWriter]

What a load of . Of course the mayor said that he thinks it's good enough. He's trying to lure a team in. And just because it fits you and Vashner's stadium needs doesn't mean that the NF'ingL thinks so.

It's not just the Mayor.

JT the Brick, Brian Cox have also said the Alamodome is a great place to play football. Just put the lux. suites in and that's all it needs.

, JT said the press box was one of the best he's ever been in to watch a game. He also said even without any upgrades the place would be a ava place to play in.

Benson has been crying for a new stadium for years, and the Superdome is (well, was) far superior than the Alamodome.

How so?

I have heard people say they were in awe of how much better it was compared to the superdome.

[samikeyp]

Oh ...I agree with Bryan Cox? Oy....

[j-6]

It's not just the Mayor.

JT the Brick, Brian Cox have also said the Alamodome is a great place to play football. Just put the lux. suites in and that's all it needs.

, JT said the press box was one of the best he's ever been in to watch a game. He also said even without any upgrades the place would be a ava place to play in.

How so?

I have heard people say they were in awe of how much better it was compared to the superdome.

Before I start, the Saints-Falcons game was the best NFL game I've ever been to, but it was the action and the drama onfield that did it for me, not the Alamodome experience. Seeing the UT band at halftime was an unexpected bonus.

If you think the NFL places stock in the opinions of you, me, or two sports radio guys, you are sorely mistaken. I know I asked this earlier, but have you ever been to a NFL stadium? Or the Superdome for any event? The Alamodome is what it is: a bare-bones facility about a decade behind the times. The Superdome seats 7,000 more people. It's got to be close to double the total size of the Alamodome adding in all the exhibit space. It's been renovated over and over due to Final Fours and Super Bowls over the years.

Benson isn't going to be happy with the Alamodome for any extended period of time, no matter what Cox thinks of the luxury box issue or JT the Brick's press box review. He wants top-of-the-line and SA doesn't have that available.

I'm still trying to figure Benson's infatuation with San Antonio out. Sure, I remember when the Saints came to SA when Ivan was threatening, so maybe that was the existing evac plan. Plenty of sports owners don't live where the team is based out of. There's more money and better facilities in other, larger markets. My gut feeling is that the city and the local government is being played.

I'm curious to see comparisons and opinions of people favoring the Alamodome over the Superdome for more than the Saints not getting booed. I haven't seen any that I recall, for what that's worth. If you come across some, post a link, will ya? Thanks.

[TheWriter]

I'm still trying to figure Benson's infatuation with San Antonio out.

Probably has to do with his "falling in love with the city" when he started out working in a car dealership and then owning his own dealerships and making millions.

His granddaughter lives here and got married here. , Tom Benson remarried last year (or the year before) in San Antonio as well.

His company Loan Star Bank is HQ'd in San Antonio.

My gut feeling is that the city and the local government is being played.

My gut feeling is Phil Hardberger knows what he's doing. Phil ain't no dumbass. He doesn't just hand out free money.

[TheWriter]

Here's a an unbiased prespective of the Alamodome compared to the Superdome:

http://saintsreport.com/forums/showt...hreadid=178033

[my2sons]

as much as j-6 wants this team as close to austin as possible, looks like you are forgetting, ignoring or watching thru your rose pastel colored glasses about one person and the only person that matters....Tom Benson. if Tommy Boy wants his team in San Antonio, he'll put his team in san antonio and you can get on your yugo and make the 70 mile drive to the riverwalk or stay there and enjoy you college football.

[Marcus Bryant]

That's not the point. The point is that if Benson wants to make the most $ in South Central Texas he is going to have to tap into the Austin market.

What happens when Benson says he needs a new $400 mil+ stadium with box seats and 120 suites? Will you dismiss Austin then?

[j-6]

Here's a an unbiased prespective of the Alamodome compared to the Superdome:

http://saintsreport.com/forums/showt...hreadid=178033

That's one guys (the thread starter) perception and then a bunch of people piling on and ing about the Superdome is old.

As far as your Tom and Rita falling in love with San Antonio theories, they make as much sense as any other reason they are here, I guess. It's just not a sound reason to move from a business perspective. Modell didn't have a passion for life in the city of Baltimore. Same with Adams and Nashville, Frontiere and St Louis, Bidwell and Phoenix, or Irsay and Indiana.

Your gut McCheese theory is fine and all, but we're watching what Benson is doing to the folks in Louisiana. I'm a firm believer that anyone who will do something once (demanding subsidies, being sleazy to your support base, not speaking on NOLA at all) will do it twice, and the mayor is the nearest available target. SA has never had an asshole owner of the Spurs in this guy's caliber.

"Loan Star Bank" is pretty punny, if that's what you intended to write.