Rudy guarantees a championship this year.

[sananspursfan21]

His midrange jumper is money. More so than Aldridge. And it doesn’t matter how contested it is. But you never know about a championship. It’s why we watch the game. I’d wait until our guys were in the playoff picture before I said anything, but injuries happen and team’s gel together, making the sum greater than the parts. Spurs would have to get hot at just the right time and commit to defense. .5% chance maybe?

[RC_Drunkford]

Rudy is great, but Spurs only have a one year rental!

BTW, where are those naysayers who said we should have picked up JSimms instead of Gay?

nobody said that, people wanted Gay AND Simmons

Would anyone trade Rudy for the Pelicans' lottery-protected first right now? He'd probably be great for them. There'd be a legit risk of them moving into the top half of the Western Bracket. I don't think it's worth a late-first to move him unless he wants to go (and he has a dfNTC, so it would have to be his choice). Wouldn't be against him sticking around for at least another year or two if that's what he wants. But somewhere around 15-21? Would be mighty tempting. Could give the team four picks striated throughout the first 45 or so selections, meaning a lot of options to play around with.

Nah, he's way too important to the team and DeMar would probably have to see a psychiatrist if you trade Rudy. A wink wink deal would seem intriguing though, where you trade him for a pick and he signs back with us next year. Although I doubt that something like that would happen

[Fusternino]

nobody said that, people wanted Gay AND Simmons



Nah, he's way too important to the team and DeMar would probably have to see a psychiatrist if you trade Rudy. A wink wink deal would seem intriguing though, where you trade him for a pick and he signs back with us next year. Although I doubt that something like that would happen

Yeah, the complaints were always keeping Mills/Forbes over Dedmon/Simmons.

I'd like Rudy to come back for another 2 years, personally.

[NASpurs]

It’ll be an amazing feat for a team that’s not guaranteed to make the playoffs. Might wanna start there first.

[jjktkk]

Would anyone trade Rudy for the Pelicans' lottery-protected first right now? He'd probably be great for them. There'd be a legit risk of them moving into the top half of the Western Bracket. I don't think it's worth a late-first to move him unless he wants to go (and he has a dfNTC, so it would have to be his choice). Wouldn't be against him sticking around for at least another year or two if that's what he wants. But somewhere around 15-21? Would be mighty tempting. Could give the team four picks striated throughout the first 45 or so selections, meaning a lot of options to play around with.

IMO, if this scenario of yours would happen, PATFO would also trade LA, maybe even DeRozan, and blow this team up.

[TimmyBuckets]

A lot of people were puzzled with the Rudy pick up, but he's becoming a favorite. Really like his style of play and at ude. Consummate pro.

[Fusternino]

How were people puzzled? It was a low risk high upside move given the price point.

[ElNono]

Cocaine is a of a drug...

[Chinook]

nobody said that, people wanted Gay AND Simmons

Half-true. A lot of people questioned (and continue to question) PATFO's 2017 roster moves without knowing the actual opportunity cost. Simmons sucks and really doesn't deserve as much nostalgic pandering, but folks constantly made it seem like the Spurs kept Pau and Mills over Jon and Dedmon. You're correct in that the team could have signed Simmons and Gay (though a lot of folks didn't actually want Rudy). But a ton of folks consistently pair Simmons with Dedmon, and Dewayne would have cost Gay.

EDIT: Case in point:

Yeah, the complaints were always keeping Mills/Forbes over Dedmon/Simmons.

Ignoring that Forbes was on a min contract and not part of the decision, Fust's desire would have cost the team Gay.

[RC_Drunkford]

Half-true. A lot of people questioned (and continue to question) PATFO's 2017 roster moves without knowing the actual opportunity cost. Simmons sucks and really doesn't deserve as much nostalgic pandering, but folks constantly made it seem like the Spurs kept Pau and Mills over Jon and Dedmon. You're correct in that the team could have signed Simmons and Gay (though a lot of folks didn't actually want Rudy). But a ton of folks consistently pair Simmons with Dedmon, and Dewayne would have cost Gay.

EDIT: Case in point:



Ignoring that Forbes was on a min contract and not part of the decision, Fust's desire would have cost the team Gay.

Dedmon would not cost Gay if you don't resign Pau for 16 million. People want to say Simmons is bad, but that's cause he had a wrist injury. Ask Magic fans and they'll tell you he was great for them the first season he's played there. Main reason why people wanted him resigned is cause it would've been a cheap contract. PATFO brought in Gay cause it was clear that the Spurs relied on Kawhi too much. Simmons was the one player filling in for Kawhi decently. Gay is obviously an upgrade. But keeping both would've been even better, especially when Simmons could've took over Manu's role once Manu retired. Now of course nobody wants Simmons back cause his shooting numbers are bad because of the injury. With that being said he would still look better on a team where the roles and pecking order are clearly defined than on the Magic

[acoelho1]

I wouldn't trade Rudy because I expect him to resign with the Spurs on a team friendly deal. I think the Spurs have shown a lot the last 6 home games and they can compete with anyone if the new "big 3" are hitting on all cylinders. I'm curious to see this team progress and if Pop can transform this team into something special. We should be looking to add another defensive minded player that can hit an open shot. Also, I think either Forbes or Mills need to go since they are such liability on defense. If I had to choose, I'll keep Mills because he's proven in big moments even though he's stunk it up in recent playoffs.

[Chinook]

Dedmon would not cost Gay if you don't resign Pau for 16 million.

Yes he would have. I'm pretty sure that you and I have had this exact conversation before, but Dedmon would have required the MLE to sign regardless of what Pau got, and that MLE is what it took to sign Gay.

Also Simmons sucks, and he sucked even with the Spurs. I wouldn't have wanted him back for what Forbes got, let alone twice that like Orlando offered him.

EDIT: This is a comparison between Simmons (last year, since apparently the wrist injury is why he sucks this year) versus Forbes, Cun and Anderson from this year:

https://www.basketball-reference.com...erky01&y4=2019

Jon's easily the worst guy in the bunch.

[Fusternino]

Yeah Simmons probably had a career ending injury towards the end of last season.

And how would keeping Dedmon prevent Spurs from signing Rudy? They were well under the apron.

[Chinook]

And how would keeping Dedmon prevent Spurs from signing Rudy? They were well under the apron.

Believe we've had this conversation too, but to repeat what I said a couple of posts back, Dedmon would have required the MLE to re-sign to a similar contract as ATL gave him. They needed the MLE to sign Gay, so they wouldn't have been able to do that had Dewayne stayed around. It's like how the Spurs never signed Erazem Lorbek in 2012 because they used the MLE on Diaw instead (obviously correctly in hindsight).

[Fusternino]

Believe we've had this conversation too, but to repeat what I said a couple of posts back, Dedmon would have required the MLE to re-sign to a similar contract as ATL gave him. They needed the MLE to sign Gay, so they wouldn't have been able to do that had Dewayne stayed around. It's like how the Spurs never signed Erazem Lorbek in 2012 because they used the MLE on Diaw instead (obviously correctly in hindsight).

I don't think Dedmon leaving or Simmons leaving had to do with getting more $$$. We couldn't have used non-Bird rights to give Dedmon a 20% raise? Seems that issue was more a falling out with both Pop and Gasol.

[Chinook]

I don't think Dedmon leaving or Simmons leaving had to do with getting more $$$..

Simmons sucks, and PATFO knew that. They never wanted him back, in my opinion, but they wanted to keep control of his contract in hopes of getting an asset. They pulled the same thing with Gary Neal a few years before. The consistent desire to tie Jon to Dewayne is why folks get confused as to how the team handled them. The only similarities in their situations was that they both happened in 2017.

I totally think Dedmon left for money. Dude is pushing 30 and only has so much time to earn before his falls off. Spurs could only offer him around $4 Million a year and had better players in front of him. ATL had a starting job open and gave him a player option with more money. It was a much more favorable contract. It was the same way he choose SA over GS because of the more favorable deal.

Seems that issue was more a falling out with both Pop and Gasol.

There may have been some of that. Dewayne isn't really that great of a player, but impact stats made it seem like he was. Dude bought into that and wanted to be treated as a main guy (especially financially). But of course, Dedmon wasn't better than Gasol, or Aldridge or Lee for that matter. Dude has his chances to step up and fell off.

[lmbebo]

Simmons wanted money. Spurs didn't want to pay him what he got in Orlando. Orlando wants to dump Simmons now per reports. Not great, just athletic. But did bring energy.

Dwayne was a head case.

Both wanted money. Both per reports on here were locker room cancers. Me first people. Simmons I think they would have brought back at the right price. Dedmon I think they wanted gone.

[Fusternino]

Yeah I keep hearing about this "Simmons/Green/Dedmon/Kawhi" "cliche" that formed and all SAGirl told me is that the only real meat to it is that one Dedmon quote about getting more minutes over Gasol.

Simmons is busted from the wrist injury. Pretty sure next year he only has $1M guaranteed anyways.

[spurs10]

Rudy, Rudy!!

[RC_Drunkford]

Yes he would have. I'm pretty sure that you and I have had this exact conversation before, but Dedmon would have required the MLE to sign regardless of what Pau got, and that MLE is what it took to sign Gay.

Also Simmons sucks, and he sucked even with the Spurs. I wouldn't have wanted him back for what Forbes got, let alone twice that like Orlando offered him.

EDIT: This is a comparison between Simmons (last year, since apparently the wrist injury is why he sucks this year) versus Forbes, Cun and Anderson from this year:

https://www.basketball-reference.com...erky01&y4=2019

Jon's easily the worst guy in the bunch.

you are using advanced stats for your argument and those ain't even that much worse. Put Simmons on the Spurs and Kyle Anderson, Dante Cunningham or Bryn Forbes on the Magic and I bet you those numbers change completely. Even looking at this he scores more than any of the other 3, his PER is better than theirs, his FG% is better than Cunningham and Forbes, he gets to the line more often than all these 3 guys combined and the only guy who averages more assists than him is Kyle. You really don't have a point. Add to that that he's a better defender than Forbes and Cunningham and that his role would be smaller in the Spurs system than in Orlando. Him turning the ball over too much is basically cause he was a 5th/6th man in Orlando. The guy can obviously play and his cap hold was 1.5 million. Sign him for 3 years 5 million each and move him after his 2nd year. It's not really that hard to comprehend. A Spurs team with Kawhi, Gay, Green, Anderson, Simmons and Ginobili would've been terror for Golden State. You could play with 3 2-way wings the entire 48 minutes.

[SouthTexasRancher]

Have to hand it to Rudy as he is giving us 110% each night. I hope we win another championship in the next couple years and Rudy is on that team. Can't wait to get Dejounte and Lonnie back.

[Chinook]

you are using advanced stats for your argument and those ain't even that much worse. Put Simmons on the Spurs and Kyle Anderson, Dante Cunningham or Bryn Forbes on the Magic and I bet you those numbers change completely. Even looking at this he scores more than any of the other 3, his PER is better than theirs, his FG% is better than Cunningham and Forbes, he gets to the line more often than all these 3 guys combined and the only guy who averages more assists than him is Kyle. You really don't have a point. Add to that that he's a better defender than Forbes and Cunningham and that his role would be smaller in the Spurs system than in Orlando. Him turning the ball over too much is basically cause he was a 5th/6th man in Orlando. The guy can obviously play and his cap hold was 1.5 million. Sign him for 3 years 5 million each and move him after his 2nd year. It's not really that hard to comprehend. A Spurs team with Kawhi, Gay, Green, Anderson, Simmons and Ginobili would've been terror for Golden State. You could play with 3 2-way wings the entire 48 minutes.

https://www.basketball-reference.com...erky01&y4=2019

Stats with Jon on the Spurs two years ago. Do you want to keep pushing the goalposts? He sucks. He's ALWAYS sucked. Even with the Spurs. "Not that much worse" despite playing with a championship-caliber roster and in a lesser role. You just keep trying to nit-pick to find an argument where one doesn't exist and hoping to cherry-pick the best of Simmons' seasons to measure against fixed years from everyone. This isn't Anderson's best year either, or Cunningham's. It might not even be Forbes' by looking at the impact stats. If I start picking good years for everyone, Jon falls further behind rather than catching up.

Now your retroactive plan is apparently for the Spurs to sign him then trade him? How is that working out for Orlando? Simmons doesn't play for on a roster that has the rest of those wings. Bonkers that you not only argue otherwise, but have the audacity to act like it's obtuse to disagree with you.

[RC_Drunkford]

https://www.basketball-reference.com...erky01&y4=2019

Stats with Jon on the Spurs two years ago. Do you want to keep pushing the goalposts? He sucks. He's ALWAYS sucked. Even with the Spurs. "Not that much worse" despite playing with a championship-caliber roster and in a lesser role. You just keep trying to nit-pick to find an argument where one doesn't exist and hoping to cherry-pick the best of Simmons' seasons to measure against fixed years from everyone. This isn't Anderson's best year either, or Cunningham's. It might not even be Forbes' by looking at the impact stats. If I start picking good years for everyone, Jon falls further behind rather than catching up.

Now your retroactive plan is apparently for the Spurs to sign him then trade him? How is that working out for Orlando? Simmons doesn't play for on a roster that has the rest of those wings. Bonkers that you not only argue otherwise, but have the audacity to act like it's obtuse to disagree with you.

he broke out in the 2017 Playoffs smartass, not in the regular season. His playoff numbers were far better than the regular season numbers. He was the best player on the floor in that Golden State series when Kawhi went down. You can try and keep spinning this all you want, he was better that year than all 3 of those players. I said they should've resigned him for 2-3 years not build a team around him. And in today's NBA expiring contracts can always be moved, but now you want to come up how it would be impossible to trade Jonathon Simmons with a wrist injury on the Magic. The Spurs ain't the Magic and if he stayed healthy he wouldn't look that bad. You could easily move him. He's not holding the team hostage like Patty Mills is.

[Chinook]

he broke out in the 2017 Playoffs smartass, not in the regular season.

No, he didn't. He had a bunch of inefficient games where he played a lot of minutes.

https://www.basketball-reference.com...erky01&y4=2017

Scroll down. Only better than Forbes, and this is you completely cherry-picking what you think are his best games.

He was the best player on the floor in that Golden State series when Kawhi went down.

Nah, he was actually pretty doodoo. Anderson was way better. You want to talk about someone who had an explosive series against GS, look at Cun. Same age that Jon was too, by the way.

You can try and keep spinning this all you want

Bruh, you're the one trying to argue against reality. Simmons sucked as a Spur, which is why they didn't keep him, not because PATFO was too stupid to see what you see. He's sucked in Orlando and did even before he got hurt. That's why ORL trying to trade him rather than hope he gets better. These are things we know. Would be easier to accept that rather than be upset that your very "nuanced" view of Simmons doesn't really track well with the dude's past, present or future.

[Fusternino]

Simmons was always a plus defender. Just never developed a 3-ball so he would resort to driving into traffic and having no intuition for when to pitch the ball back out rather toss up an ill-advised shot.