Spurs are being cheap plain and simple

[Temple Of The Dog]

Suck a . A homer never wants to see their favorite players leave. Now you're telling me that the Spurs can simply afford to carry a roster full of multi-year deals? Get real. 'Dumb s' like you must think that this isn't a business. Excuse me for actually thinking instead of whining like a little baby.

there you go again spin-masturbator extraordinaire... DA was my favorite player huh? (yeah right - and you're my favorite poster) i was just making the point that they screwed DA over, and almost screwed david robinson over that summer too. tony parker even talked about it in an interview... we even went over it before that thread was posted...

talk about revisiting the good old days, huh?

cause i remember a "homer" named Spurs Fan who used to run around with a little "tagline" signature... at the bottom of all his posts he'd write "NO LIMIT ARMY" he'd talk about getting more than one max player in 03 - and defend the front office when they failed to make trades to improve the overall talent of the team... now... there's some guy named marcus. i miss that other re alot.

maybe i'm playing devils advocate with how much talent we could have had during these years... but i'm just grateful we have tim duncan. (2 championships) now maybe we can afford to start ac ulating some players who wouldn't be cut from a pickup game at the Y.

[Marcus Bryant]

Good for you. With respect to DA the Spurs conned the 'homers' (including yourself apparenty) into thinking that they wanted him back. Of course they wanted him back so bad they were unwilling to guarantee almost all of the last two years of his contract. Of course they could still tell the media that they were offering a '6 year $42 mil deal' or whatever but the truth was that only about $28 mil was guaranteed. DA wasn't greedy (another argument of the 'homers'), he wanted his market price in the NBA which was in the range of Portland's 6 years $48 mil guaranteed contract offer. So the Spurs fool their fans into thinking they wanted him back and that DA was being unreasonable. He wasn't.

As for their strategy of not paying DA like a second star, sure, I agreed with that. He faded towards the end of that season and then didn't show much in his first playoff series before Juwan Howard took him out. Beyond that his defense left something to be desired.

I've yet to see you make one coherent argument as to why it is preferable to keep every player the Spurs have. After this trade Jack is expendable. I'm sorry if I don't adopt your childlike mentality that the Spurs should just dole out multi-year contracts without any regard for the repercussions down the line. It's easy to , it's harder to actually bother to assess the situation and understand that this isn't NBA Live 2003 or whatever it is a damn business and not every NBA franchise can carry a $80 million payroll, especially a team in one of the smallest NBA markets and in one of the metro areas with the lowest average per capita income in the entire US. Unlike you I actually bother to look at the situation and the implications for the moves which you yourself suggest. Now you can continue to spew your nonsense or you can actually defend your argument with facts. Given what you've demonstrated thusfar I'm not expecting much.

[F7]

Indeed guys, I wish the Spurs organization was more like the Knicks organization. Now there is an organization that knows how to pay players. They definitely know how to keep fans happy... and not only that.. they have so many ing rings to show for it too.

[Temple Of The Dog]

i never wanted jaxs back marcrust... i thought he was a raw talent we were forced to start because manu was hurt and was a rookie new to the nba. and that was my point.

for a team to depend on a rookie like manu was last year, goes to show how much talent we had coming into that year... jax just so happened to step up. parker starting at 19 because we didn't have a quality guy to share mins with him and bring him along slowly... also shows you how much talent we had during these years when we were planning for robinson to retire.

but, you must be reading different posts dude... because you're the only homer that i've read here... most of the stuff you "spew" sounds like it comes out of pop's ass. (mostly )

my points have been about how DA was treated. i think they used him as a backup plan (as they did with david that year) the spurs went after webber, and christie... made them offers above robinson and DA.

DA forced a sign and trade and thats why we ended up with steve smith... which forced us to later start jax because of a lack of talent at that position...

a guy who won't be starting anywhere else. (but i wish him well cause he played balls out)

[Admiral]

Amazing how Marcus is already talking about how to pay for Turkoglu's new contract and the guy hasn't even played a minute in a Spurs uniform yet. Like Manu, Turkoglu has very little experience being an NBA starter, and people are ready to s out the money and forget about the guys who are our current starters.

It's incredible how some fans underestimate the value of what being an NBA starter means. It means that you matchup against the best the other team has to offer, as opposed to possibly playing against the other team's reserves every time you're out there. It means added responsibility. It means that you're required to play within the system more than you used to and reduce turnovers and fouls. MUCH more is expected of you as a starter, and some people act like Manu and Turkoglu will have no problem stepping in and playing huge roles in 2003-2004. Keep telling yourselves that both would've been All-Stars if not because one played behind Stojakovic and the other had a bum ankle to start the season. Whatever helps your argument.

Nobody is saying that these two won't be excellent players one day, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. They aren't there YET. There is reason why both are accustomed to coming off the bench - and it's not just because they were in impossible situations last year.

I look forward to watching these guys slowly reach their potential on our team.

[Temple Of The Dog]

great post admiral... i agree. however with the kinds of mins manu was putting up towards the end of the season and playoffs, i think he'll be fine. (he's got all the skills) i don't think hedo will start, but he'll have an excellent chance of getting lots of mins backing manu and bowen up.

[Marcus Bryant]

You call me a "homer" and you bring nothing but just that. Like I said you are incapable of doing anything else. Thanks for continue to prove me right. You run your ignorant criticism of the Spurs that falls apart whenever someone bothers to look at the situation and think logically instead of ing and moaning like some drunk. Fans sitting around scratching their ass and crying about a team is nothing new. That is you. No knowledge of the cap, the business, nothing.

[Admiral]

Who was that directed at, Marcus?

[Marcus Bryant]

Not you unless you would like it to have been.

[Jimcs50]

^^^^I like that Hookah...I used to have one in college that looked like that one. They are great for parties.

[Temple Of The Dog]

Fans sitting around scratching their ass and crying about a team is nothing new. That is you. No knowledge of the cap, the business, nothing.

what a load of ... mr. no limit himself saying that we could sign 2 max free agents come 2003. or don't you remember that part of your "homer" philosophy anymore? you can hide behind a different name, but its the same old tow the company line . its like you get paid by the front office to spin every little move.

i wasn't bad-mouthing this years moves... just some of the re ed they've done. and here's what i said, and my proof... i said, DA was treated like when it came time to resign him, and so was david robinson. my proof is that they called webber and offered robinson a below market contract (without even filling him in as to why) and with DA, they waited and waited on him... making him their plan b... offering doug christie a contract first...

now... a homer like you would say... why lock yourself into a long term contract for a ****-up like doug christie... right? or wait... that was only if they had signed derek anderson, right? (cause there's a huge difference there)

let me guess, you'd probably say it would have been wrong to tie up that money for derek anderson, but not for christie... why? cause you know so much about the cap... right?

yeah... you proved your point. if doug christie was on the team, you'd be jocking his ass too. trying to rationalize that deal for all of us "poor homers" right re ?

its easy to sit there and say "see i told you" when all you did was change your story every time something else happened. i'm beginning to think ghost was right about that part... (i just figured you grew a brain)

[Temple Of The Dog]

before i get tagged with "thats not what i said"

Another thing to consider is that the Spurs could have Derek Anderson taking up $7.8 million of their cap next season and then even more over the next 3 seasons. Were the Spurs being cheap....or smart? Of course homer fans are going to when players leave a team but that's life in the NBA.

explain why they offered christie a longer contract... 6 years? the spurs weren't being cheap right... they must have been smart. (especially when they go behind players backs)

[Marcus Bryant]

Apparently the Spurs thought they could afford to sign two max free agents this summer.

Again, the Spurs already have long term contracts extended to:

Duncan (7 years, starts at $12,676,125, ends after 2009-10 season)
Rose (7 years, started at $4,370,000, ends after 2008-09 season)
Nesterovic (6 years, started at $5,450,000, ends after 2008-09 season)

On top of that they have Ginobili, Parker, and Turkoglu coming up for free agency in the next two summers. That's six potential long term contracts. Parker will be max or near max. Had the Spurs not been able to pull off that trade then maybe they are willing to bring Jack back.

Now how the **** does this make the Spurs "cheap"?

Take it another step further.

Assume the following deals are given to Parker, Ginobili, and Turkoglu:

Ginobili (7 years, $6,500,000 starting, ends after 2010-11 season)
Turkoglu (7 years, $6,000,000 starting, ends after 2010-11 season)
Parker (7 years, $9,000,000 starting, ends after 2011-12 season)

Added to the 3 long term deals the Spurs currently have we see the payroll committed to those 6 players as being:

2003-04 $27,439,186
2004-05 $38,263,582
2005-06 $50,768,906
2006-07 $56,069,672
2007-08 $61,370,438
2008-09 $66,671,203
2009-10 $55,058,219

That's what it would roughly cost to retain those 6 long term. Now you can engage in all your childish nonsensical bull or you can actually get a ing clue for once.

I see you've bought into Pop's bull about Mercer. And you call me a "homer"?

[Marcus Bryant]

Maybe they thought Christie was a more complete player than DA? Anderson wasn't exactly known for being a defensive wizard. In addition, the offer to Christie was significantly less (starting at < $4 million) than what DA signed with Portland for ($6.5 million). DA's durability was another area of concern due to both knees.

[Temple Of The Dog]

this years moves were not the issue you front office horry... the issue at hand was how they treated derek anderson and david robinson that year (and to a smaller extent tony parker this season)

i think the moves they made at the end (with the trade) saved this year's offseason. you get hedo and mercer for nothing, get a big man in rasho locked up... and have roughly about 13-14 million dollars in capspace next year. enough to match any resonable offer on manu, and maybe another player... and also retain hedo (if he turns into the steal we hope) so in that sense, no complaints.

but thats a far cry from saying that they handled things perfectly or that this is what they wanted... they were in talks for spree... even last year for steve smith... and there would have gone your capspace, right? but you being the homer you are... would have come out and said... THATS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS SAYING!!!!

pop just said that "sjax overpriced himself on the FA market" (direct quote from instant replay) whats your take? he might be right, but thats a pretty sucky thing to say about a player who helped you win a championship... it could also hurt his market value with other teams. but pop is classy and sjax is the bum... his agent... like tony parker's... were filling his head with .

spin spin spin....

[Admiral]

I'm getting dizzy from all of this spinning.

[Marcus Bryant]

That's nice doggie. Now actually use some facts instead of whining like a little girl. Then I might waste more of my time dealing with your lame takes.

[Temple Of The Dog]

you know admiral... pop should have just come and said we loved sjax but we couldn't make things work. we made other deals that make it hard for us to sign him. (yadda yadda) i think he said too much.

the war of words with derek was great though... they went balls out on him painting him as a bad guy.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Spurs didn't have to do a damn thing with DA. He gave them all they needed in the media. Homers jumped on him for being "greedy" like there was no tomorrow.

[Temple Of The Dog]

peter holt's on air interview with nbc while he was sitting watching the game (where the lakers were trouncing the spurs) where he talked about signing david for less... and talking to DA after they get that worked out...

that wouldn't count for you right?

[Temple Of The Dog]

That's nice doggie. Now actually use some facts instead of whining like a little girl. Then I might waste more of my time dealing with your lame takes.

you didn't answer mucus... whats wrong, the spin cycle stuck on flush again?

[Admiral]

That was a classless move by Holt to announce on NBC during the WCF's that David would have to take a paycut to remain in San Antonio. That should have been done in private behind closed doors. However, he redeemed himself somewhat for stepping in and making sure that DRob was re-signed when Pop was ready to let him walk. I think most Spurs fans will agree that Holt was right on that one.

Our front office does a great job obtaining players that are diamonds in the rough or castoffs from other teams. Our guys have a great eye for talent that is unparalleled around the league, but publicly, our front office has not handled some transactions very well. Like it or not, the DA situation blew up in our faces. The DRob situation very nearly could've.

I am still not convinced that the front office didn't want DA once they finally got into negotiations with him (i.e., once Christie and McKie said no). I thought they supposedly caved in and offered him that final seventh year guaranteed, which had supposedly been the big sticking point all along. I'm glad it didn't workout, though, because DA is too injury-prone and isn't good enough to be the second star we tried to make him be when he was here.

[Marcus Bryant]

SA never offered DA 7 years guaranteed. Or 6 years for that matter. Portland straight up offered 6 years. DA was willing to sign with Portland for 6 years at the MLE and that was more than SA was offering guaranteed.

[Temple Of The Dog]

right on admiral... and thats all i was saying.

by the way... after the press got wind of the original contract they offered david... the front office had NO CHOICE but to offer what they did to him 2 years 20 million.

[Marcus Bryant]

you didn't answer mucus... whats wrong, the spin cycle stuck on flush again?

I've answered your bull again and again. All you've done is like a dumbass fan. Answer my analysis or shut up already.