and I'd go further and say Jesus would probably be assassinated. No joke.
Yup. I agree 100%.
Young children don't have to formulate tax policy though.
Adults take that understanding a step further and realize that asking someone with a lot of income to pay back into society isn't that much to ask because they aren't giving of the stuff they need to survive. That is the heart of the moral reasoning underlying progressive income taxes.
I agree. I find the conservative war on the poor to be the height of hypocrisy.
At every turn "the poor" are demonised for one thing or another. I have met no few people who would call themselves "christians" and then turn around and almost literally spit on people who have little or no wealth. Such at udes are the worst sort of spirtual stuntedness.
Jesus would have to change so many things. We humans have ed this World up like nobody's business.
Very true, and when you say this, they get very upset and deny it or just ignore the issue altogether.
Rich people would pay most of the tax burden in either a flat tax or progressive tax shceme, so your whole premise is flawed. You still didnt prove that Jesus would prefer a progressive tax code.
I'm not commenting on a progressive tax code, because it is obvious that Jesus would help the poor, so whatever programs or codes that may intail, the poor are definitely on Jesus' agenda, even though he would never be president.
And again, I say,
for that reason, he would be assassinated. Very sad...
Heh, unless I can ask the man himself about it, that won't happen.
BUT
I can infer from his statements in the Bible, that progressive income taxes would definitely be What Jesus Would Do.
I can find other bits that support this thesis...
[to the Rich young man]
Mark 10: 21-25
"One thing you lack: go and selll all you possess, and give it to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow ME."
But at these words his face fell, and he went away much grieved, for he was one who owned much property.
Is there any doubt to anyone that Jesus put little value on wealth or earthly possessions?
Flat taxes would end up having the same progressive nature as our current system anyways, so this may be a bit of a pointless exercise.
A government based upon the teachings of Jesus is self-contradictory, given that he stated repeatedly that his kingdom was not of this world.
But if humans were to set up a government based upon his teachings, it would most closely resemble a cross between theocracy and communism. Of course, in order for that to work in a practical sense, humans would need to be perfectly virtuous. And in a case where humans are perfectly virtuous, there is no need for government in the first place, and in the event there were government, any kind you pick would work. Anarchy/monarchy/democracy/whatever would all work the same because all people would have the mind of God in their decisions. It would all work the same.
All people would live in community with one another. There would be no walls between us. We would not draw distinctions based upon anything. Each person would be our neighbor. We would take only what we needed to survive, and share all other possessions in common. We would live simply. All of our striving would be based upon the glory of God and the good of our neighbors. There would be no injustice. There would be no crime. Any problems that emerged would be handled with unanimous cooperation from the community.
And we would need no human authority to tell us to live this way.
Of course, this is not the reality of humanity. It is not the reality of this world.
He pretty much took himself out of the government business.A government based upon the teachings of Jesus is self-contradictory, given that he stated repeatedly that his kingdom was not of this world.
if jesus was president his last name would be BUsh for Bush =the man
who are you SA210? that would call others hypocrites.
have you ever said one thing, done another?
who are you SA210? that you can call others liars.
have you ever told a lie?
and when was the last time YOU helped the poor?
at least you know your history. Jesus was murdered when he was here as a man. When he comes back again? Man will bow down.
Many are correct that Jesus would not be President, as he is KING, and His Kingdom is not of the earth, but the earth, of His Kingdom.
But for the point of this thread, what would be Jesus viewpoint on the issues mentioned? I believe that it is a very Good thread for discussion.
Who am I to say all these things? I may not be SA210, but I am but a flawed man who can see injustice and know it for what it is.
I am not stoning anyone to death, I am calling out those who would perpetrate evil in the world with impunity. Anything less would be less than worthy of the life and intellect I have been given.
There is a balance between giving back to the society that you live in and striving for individual accomplishment.
If I am work hard, am lucky, and or smart, I should do well in this life. That is individual accomplishment.
On the same token, I am not an island. I owe a debt/duty to the society that I live in. Part of that duty is to pay a share of taxes. If I am blessed with an "abundance" it is only fair that my share be larger in real and proportionate terms than those who are less well off.
Progressive taxes are simply an outgrowth of this philosophy, and I agree with the underlying premise, so I agree with the policy.
(edited content slightly and fixed a typo)
the people you speak of are representatives of Man.
they are NOT representatives of Jesus.
going to Church is like going to school.
it does not necessarily mean that you have passed all the tests.
Man is sinful by nature. We are ALL GUILTY.
Such is the nature of the beast.
but even so, Judge others only as you would Judge yourself.
if one follows the above rule,
they will find themselves not wanting to Judge others at all.
My point exactly.
.
Last edited by SA210; 10-31-2005 at 01:47 PM. Reason: mistake, delete this post.
Have I said one thing and done another?who are you SA210? that would call others hypocrites.
have you ever said one thing, done another?
who are you SA210? that you can call others liars.
have you ever told a lie?
and when was the last time YOU helped the poor?
at least you know your history. Jesus was murdered when he was here as a man. When he comes back again? Man will bow down.
Many are correct that Jesus would not be President, as he is KING, and His Kingdom is not of the earth, but the earth, of His Kingdom.
But for the point of this thread, what would be Jesus viewpoint on the issues mentioned? I believe that it is a very Good thread for discussion.
Saying you believe in Jesus and what he stands for and doing another; especially when you hold a position in high government is alot more than saying one thing and doing another.
BigSac, Have you ever told a lie? How about a lie to the american people that would send thousands to their death? ( very un-Jesus like)
BigSac, when was the last time I helped the poor?
In fact, I do so much work and help for the poor that it would surprise you, that you would even question this with the confidence you had. As if i don't help the poor.
If you look into another thread, "A. business leaders plan to check into finance options to keep Saints" you would find how I am invloved and have been involved in the Victoria Courts Civil battle in making sure our nations homeless, working poor, and disadvantaged have a home to live.
My resume in some of my non profit involvement:
Board Member 2 years, Bexar County Legal Aid (legal representation for low income Texans)
San Antonio Food Bank
San Antonio Fair Housing Council
Vice President, Victoria Courts Residents Council
Donated to area schools from a Restaurant I managed
Assist "TLIHIS" "Texas Low Income Housing Information Services"
annual MLK march
annually help organize the "Cesar Chavez March for Justice"
Feed the homeless downtown and anywhere possible whenever possible.
Civil litigation against HUD for mismanagement of funds for public housing, Section 8 and mixed income housing for low income people.
Have forced the San Antonio Housing Authority to change policy in it's practice of segregated housing practices, to promote integrated housing developments within it's low income properties.
And I'm still in my mid 20's.
BigSac, does that even scratch the surface for you?
Who are YOU BigSac? and when was the last time YOU helped the poor?
Last edited by SA210; 10-31-2005 at 03:31 PM.
I will be doing Volunteer Income Tax Preparation this spring...
Gawd, I can't wait to get a job, so I can take time from the stupid extra-curricular clubs that look good on resumes and start doing some good like, Habitat for Humanity.
I hear USAA is going to get into that, so I am hoping my interview with them panned out.
I'm currently trying to help a non profit group who helps people pay their bills as well, to help from getting their utilities from being disconnected or help paying rent, so they won't get evicted.
you know, I understand what you are saying. and I did in fact, help vote Bush back into office. but i have heard new viewpoints recently, and i can tell you today that I question Bush more now than i ever have before. I see the Good in his actions. I see the bad that also results. I would like to know what he feels HIS justifications are, but I think that is on a need to know basis. I am at ease that he is a follower of Jesus. President Bush is not perfect, NONE OF US ARE, but I pray for him and his decisions. And I admire his steadfastness (others will call it stubborness) in the face of adversity.
very impressive. your accomplishments and good deeds and continued fight for the less fortunate serve as a light for me. I want to do as you do and will be a proud follower of the examples you have laid before me, before the whole forum. I say these things with admiration and respect for you, my friend. i sense that we are on the same team, the same path, even though you are obviously much further ahead than I.BigSac, when was the last time I helped the poor?
In fact, I do so much work and help for the poor that it would surprise you, that you would even question this with the confidence you had. As if i don't help the poor.
If you look into another thread, ".A. business leaders plan to check into finance options to keep Saints" you would find how I am invloved and have been involved in the Victoria Courts Civil battle in making sure our nations homeless, working poor, and disadvantaged have a home to live.
My resume in non profit involvement:
Board Member 2 years, Bexar County Legal Aid (legal representation for low income Texans)
San Antonio Food Bank
San Antonio Fair Housing Council
Vice President, Victoria Courts Residents Council
Donated to area schools from a Restaurant I managed
Assist "TLIHIS" "Texas Low Income Housing Information Services"
annual MLK march
annually help organize the "Cesar Chavez March for Justice"
Feed the homeless downtown and anywhere possible whenever possible.
Civil litigation against HUD for mismagaement of funds for public housing, Section 8 and mixed income housing for low income people.
Have forced the San Antonio Housing Authority to change policy in it's practice of segregated housing practices, to promote integrated housing developments within it's low income properties.
And I'm still in my mid 20's.
BigSac, does that even scratch the surface for you?
that is a good question, and deserves a good answer.Who are YOU BigSac? and when was the last time YOU helped the poor?
I am currently an unemployed man of 31 years of age living in a small room in the upstairs of my wife's mother's cousin's house in Pomona, CA.
I am/was a liar, a cheater, a luster, a drunkard, a stoner, a worshipper of false idols, a blasphemer, and overall just a low down dirty piece of nothing.
Today? I am still dirty. But many of my evil ways have changed because I have willed them to change. Today? I am a piece of something.
when wast the last time I helped the poor?
today. right now. I helped myself when I read your post. I was poor and now I am enlightened. I am still poor, but you have helped me. I thankyou for that. Thanks.
If Jesus stood for office then he'd get very little support. The left, though supportive of his admonishment to 'love all' would be troubled by the restrictions he advocated in one's life. The right would go for his teachings that emphasize personal responsibility but would be troubled by the notion of forgiveness as a matter of offical policy.
And I think everyone would have a hard time turning their focus away from the material.
-MB
Last edited by Marcus Bryant; 10-31-2005 at 02:34 PM.
Well, we completely disagree on Bush,
but I thank you for the compliments. Helping the poor is a passion I've had since childhood.
However I don't see Bush as a help in that quest or a "real" follower of Jesus. But thank you very much.
Last edited by SA210; 10-31-2005 at 03:35 PM.
Render unto Jimcs50 the things which are Jimcs50's...
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