Dude, we are talking about right now.
Odom > Maggette
Height is right.
Report seems to be that Kidd has offer in hand so making Brand "first choice" is moot.Um, picnroll... that's exactly what I want the Spurs to say to Kidd. Brand should be the first choice!
I would think if Kidd intended to come to the Spurs he would make the commitment publicly soon so that big FAs would know where he's going and the Spurs could get the best big possible, which would be in his interest. If it drags out you have to wonder.
Okay, so is it illegal to have more than one offer out there?
Question.
How did you conclude that? Kidd (or his agent) haven't said a word. And all the Spurs have said to the media is that the trip seemed to have gone well, but that Kidd didn't give them any indication.Report seems to be that Kidd has offer in hand
How many girls did you ask out to the prom? 8oOkay, so is it illegal to have more than one offer out there?
The way you guys are thinking, the Spurs will be putting all their eggs in one basket... the wrong basket.
Please provide the link to the report that Kidd has recieved an offer for Kidd.
I am still waiting for a compelling argument as to why the Spurs haven't offered Brand a deal alá the Jazz.
Waiting two weeks for Sterling to match is not a good enough reason not to try, when Kidd or O'Neal are iether coming to us or staying put anyway.
Right now Maggette is NOT better than Lamar Odom.
Odom has way more versatility right now, plus he is a lot taller and could easily play the 3 or maybe the 4 at times.
I like Odom's talent a lot and from that stand point I would like the Spurs getting him. However his past drug problems and injuries are a little worrisome -- but if SOMEHOW he could put that behind him I would say he would fit in a lot better than Maggette would.
Maggette I could not see playing SF here, Odom is made for the SF position and he even has demonstrated some PG orchestrating skills. Im not saying Odom needs to be a PG but he is taller and more versatile than Maggette and he would fit better than Maggette would.
Now of course none of that means anything if Odom's injuries remain a problem or he continues with the drug problem -- but from the Spurs standpoint if you have to choose between Maggette and Odom based on what you have -- you go with ODOM.
My mistake. It was at the end of Ludden's article and it said "Spurs a re prepared to offer" and I remebered it as have offered.
Nevertheless it remians that a offer to Brand will tie up the Spurs cap space until August. Kidd and his agent will take no offer from the Spurs seriously if an offer is made to Brand. He'll just turn around and sign with Sterling. We could watch as Brown, Malone, Howard fall to Miami, LA, Minn. Possibly Nasterovic to Minn or NY which he's got the hots for. Then we'll be left hoping Sterling won't match on Odom and Maggette. Then hope Kandi, a guy who could be a long term untradeable bust, hasn't been grabbed by Denver. Not a path the Spurs probably want to risk.
picnroll, it would take about two weeks to see if Sterling would match an offer for Brand from the Spurs. What are Kidd and O'Neal's options during that time?
They can sign with their current teams or wait for us, same as they are now.
Right or wrongs?
Ghost, we are not talking about right this minute. We are talking about next season in Jan-June when it matters. Maggete will be a star player and you will see this this year. Odom is injury prone and has diminishing skills. Maggette can play the 3 as well as anyone the Spurs have right now and is a better defensive player than Odom as well.
Ghost, I *think* (meaning I am not sure) that when we extend and offer sheet to an RFA, that immediately counts against our cap until he is matched by the other team. So we couldn't extend the offer sheet and offer Kidd a contract, because we don't have the cap room.
We could have a *wink wink* deal to Kidd that says if Brand (or whoever) gets matched, then we'll offer you the deal- but I think a guy like Kidd would be turned off by that. You know I want Brand more than anyone, but I don't think that approach is really a viable option- I wish it were though.
As for "Kidd is in hand" I said that based on my overexaggeration to the reports that O'Neal trip was "mutually cancelled." I was over reacting.
As far as Odom vs. Maggette... even if Maggette is better than Odom, we should STILL go after Odom. Odom can give us minutes at the 4- something we need. There is no room for Maggette in our line up.
We are indeed talking about right now, but regardless, I'd rather Odom on my team than another high-falootin' swingman like Maggette. I am happy with Ginobili and Jackson on our perimeter. You can have Maggette and I'll take the Scottie Pippen-esque, 6'10 Odom to play 4 out of five positions, champ.
These guys do have an ego. Kidd wants to feel the love in all likelihood. If Kidd is straddling the fence somewhat and the Spurs don't show him love he's more inclined to fall on the NJ side.
Spurs have to play both who they want and who the probabilities are they can get. So if both players help, even if they preferred Brand, if there is a much higher probability of getting Kidd that might be the logical move.
Wrong.
There's no harm in offering to both right now at the same time.
You ignore the fact that Kidd has no choice but to take our offer any way he gets it or go back to Jersey.
Do you think that our offering to Brand wouldn't immediately force him to sign with Jersey?
If we sign Brand, that could seriously hamper Kidd negotiating ability with NJ.
Say that Brand doesn't get matched, LA signs some other players, Denver signs Kandi and Arenas, Miami signs whoever, and Utah signs Dre Miller...
What is Kidd left to do?
The Nets can than offer less than the max, but still more than any other team can offer. At that point, Kidd's only option would be to take the Nets offer, or play for even less somewhere else.
I fear our top two options are fading away fast.
You're catching on."The Nets can than offer less than the max, but still more than any other team can offer. At that point, Kidd's only option would be to take the Nets offer, or play for even less somewhere else." — scott
So either we force Kidd to come to us or stay in Jersey, while we wait to see if Sterling will match our offer for Brand.
Either way, we win.
Not exactly, Ghost.
The second Jason Kidd sees us make the offer to Brand, he realizes what is going on and runs back to NJ and immediately signs for the max. Thorn will jump on this because the possibility is still there for Brand to get matched and for us to sign Kidd for the Max, leaving the Nets with their s in their hands.
So Kidd signs for the max in NJ, Brand gets matched, and we are left with nothing.
What makes you think that Kidd wouldn't accept the Spurs offer right away or wait to see if the Clippers match the Spurs offer?
Question.
I'm getting confused- so let me try to recap the situation to make sure we are talking about the same thing:
1. We extend an offer sheet to Elton Brand for the max, and wait to see if Sterling matches.
2. At the same time, we offer Jason Kidd an offer, contingent on Brand getting matched. That is, if Brand doesn't get matched, there is no deal with Kidd. If Brand does get matched, Kidd signs with us.
Is that the scenario?
We can't do that, because the offer sheet (again, this is what I think, we need a capologist to tell us definitively) counts against our cap until he is matched or signed (in which case his contract counts against our cap) so we have no cap space to offer Kidd a contract.
The best we can do is tell Kidd that if Brand get matches, we will sign him for the max.
However, if Brand doesn't get matched, Kidd has nowhere left to go because the Spurs can no longer afford to pay him and then the Nets can offer less than the Max and Kidd loses out on a LOT of money (he could demand the S&T to Dallas- but he no longer has leverage unless he is willing to play for the MLE).
So, when we extend the offer sheet to Brand- Kidd's best option is to immediately sign the max with NJ while he is still guaranteed Max money. Otherwise, he takes the risk of having to settle for less later. Thorn pays the max, because he runs the risk of losing Kidd if Brand does get matched.
I though my Question was pretty direct, but I guess not.
If Sterling doesn't match our offer to get Brand, we sign Brand for the max and Kidd still gets the max from NJ. Period.
There's no disadvantage to Kidd to wait to see if the Spurs sign Brand.
Kidd will get the max from the Nets regardless.
:cool
The thing is, that without a threat to sign with us, Kidd doesn't necessarily have the leverage to sign with NJ to get the max.
Actually, I'm going to drop this arguement because I think the Nets would give him the max even if they could get him for half that price.
In a egoless world, I think you'd be right, Ghost.
But in this world, I think Kidd would sign with NJ the day after we extended the offer sheet to Brand.
Um, I'm not dropping it, because it's that importnant.
If Kidd really wanted to play for the Spurs, he'd wait the 2-3 weeks to see how things shook out between Sterling, SA and Brand.
If the Spurs signed Brand, he gets the max from NJ.
If the Clips match to sign Brand, Kidd can get the max from SA.
Kidd will get the max this summer regardless of who SA signs.
So again I ask you why the Spurs aren't making it a priority to offer Brand a contract?
Question.
Again Ghost, you are missing the key point and making a very dangerous assumption.
If we extend the offer sheet to Brand, Kidd could very well (and this is what I believe would happen) sign with NJ the next day and not wait the 2 weeks to see what happens.
What do we tell Jason... uh... yah... let's see what our first choice wants to do, and then we'll deal with you.
Kidd ain't going to go for that.
By offering Brand the max first, we risk losing out on all the top FAs.
This is why I wanted us to try to work a S&T deal now, when there is no risk involved. Apparently, Sterling isn't going for a S&T, so our best option is to see how Kidd plays out, then offer Brand the max.
I don't like the idea of getting Kidd when we could get Brand- but it is the safest bet. And that safe bet is most likely the way the Spurs want to play it.
For the seventh time, why in the would Kidd od that if he really wanted to play for the Spurs?"If we extend the offer sheet to Brand, Kidd could very well (and this is what I believe would happen) sign with NJ the next day and not wait the 2 weeks to see what happens." — scott
Question. x 7
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