OT: Potatoball

[DMC]

Second base to shorstop to first base. Woooow. Such mind bending concept

You googled it. Then you misspelled shortstop.


Are you sure that's not "e-shor e-stop"?

[DAF86]

You googled it. Then you misspelled shortstop.


Are you sure that's not "e-shor e-stop"?

I know you will never believe me but I really didn't need to google it. I love me some MLB games. Pitcher-1, Catcher-2, 1B-3, 2B-4, 3B-5, SS-6 and the outfielders I have no idea but I guess if you go from right to left like with the bases, RF would be 7, CF-8 and LF-9. The shortstop thing is obviously a typo.

But regardless of whether I knew or googled it (which is irrelevant to the discussion), how the is a standard double play suppossed to be some kind of complex concept to grasp? You tried to sound mysterious for non-baseball fans without realizing we might knew a thing or two (or like you said, we could have just googled it ) and hoped nobody would question the simple ass play you came up with.

Ok now, try to explain me the the concept of a high press, ball controlling, 3-4-3 soccer formation with overlaping centerbacks, inverted wings, a sweeper, a reggista, an enganche, a false 9 and a diamond shaped midfield. You can google it if you want.

[GAustex]

Left is 7 and center is 8 and right is 9

My job as a real youngster was score keeper for even younger kids youth baseball.

Describe infield flyball rule-that's a good one

[DAF86]

Left is 7 and center is 8 and right is 9

My job as a real youngster was score keeper for even younger kids youth baseball.

Describe infield flyball rule-that's a good one

I don't know for sure but I know it is a rule that prevents infielders from letting the ball fall to the ground on purpose to then put out the runners on the bases. Again, nothing overly complex, tbh.

[GAustex]

Not bad. Pretty close.
Do you know you can strike out on a foul ball?

[DAF86]

Not bad. Pretty close.
Do you know you can strike out on a foul ball?

Is that when the catcher has to throw the ball to first and the batter has to make a half-assed run to first? I never understood the purpose of that rule, tbh.

But then again, nothing really complex. I don't know where this "highly mental game" thing began with baseball, tbh. My guess is some redneck came up with the phrase in the 40s and somehow stuck, despite very few sports being as stale and having less variety than baseball, tbh.

[GAustex]

Is that when the catcher has to throw the ball to first and the batter has to make a half-assed run to first? I never understood the purpose of that rule, tbh.

But then again, nothing really complex. I don't know where this "highly mental game" thing began with baseball, tbh. My guess is some redneck came up with the phrase in the 40s and somehow stuck, despite very few sports being as stale and having less variety than baseball, tbh.

I like baseball and i was good at it in the good old days and so what if someone says it is this or that. If you foul off a bunt attempt you are out. If you swing and fouled with 2 strikes you still are up.

What you described is on a third strike the catcher has to cleanly field the pitch or the runner can run and then the catcher has to throw you out before you get to first-unless of course there is a runner on first then you are out if the catcher does not field it cleanly. Baseball is a fun game to play. Not so great to watch unless you are not in such a hurry.

[FrostKing]

Baseball is America. America is Baseball. Rosters are gigantic and MLB clubhouses are the stuff of movies. Respect and cultural shock. A baseball player works every day alongside his foreign coworker and Wins. :::America.

[Chucho]

So...this is why soccer players fluff and stroke each other on the bench?

[FrostKing]

MLB playoffs without off days within series

NBA won't even work 2 days in a row

[lefty]

MLB playoffs without off days within series

NBA won't even work 2 days in a row

that’s because baseball is not a sport

[i'm_still_beta]

MLB playoffs without off days within series

NBA won't even work 2 days in a row

I don't know but I think there are some reasons why NBA games are rarely played back to back and NFL games only once a week

[FrostKing]

that’s because baseball is not a sport

More of a sport than Pickupball

[midnightpulp]

Is that when the catcher has to throw the ball to first and the batter has to make a half-assed run to first? I never understood the purpose of that rule, tbh.

But then again, nothing really complex. I don't know where this "highly mental game" thing began with baseball, tbh. My guess is some redneck came up with the phrase in the 40s and somehow stuck, despite very few sports being as stale and having less variety than baseball, tbh.

Again, you show your re ation when discussing baseball. Baseball is considerably more mental than "flowing team" sports like soccer, basketball, etc. I've been over this with you countless times, and you'll never get it. Great swing mechanics are MUCH harder to develop than anything you'll do in those other sports. "Uh, but floptrot players use their feet and developing a jump shot is real, real hard." Sure, but you aren't punished anywhere near as severely for your mistakes in those sports. Lebron can miss 10 jumpers in a row and still have a good game because he gets so many offensive attempts. A soccer player can turn over the ball many times and more than often than not (since soccer is broken), it'll lead to nothing as we watch yet another 1-1 tie unfold.

You get 4 or 5 chances on offense in baseball and if you don't make something happen, that's it. No "second half" comeback after going 2-15. Even Jordan is quoted as saying, "Baseball is much harder mentally than basketball." And he's right. It's much easier for a talented player to impose his athletic will in basketball, soccer, or football. You can't "out athlete" a great pitcher. You need world class discipline, spatial recognition (to recognize the strike zone which doesn't have a physical representation), and deep knowledge of that specific pitching opponent to hit MLB pitching.

It's not uncommon for the best of the best players in the MLB to go a month without so much as an extra base hit. If we equate that to an NBA player scoring 20 points, how often does Lebron fail to score 20 points? And this ease of imposing your will in basketball is evidenced by just how consistent the star players are game to game and how many times top 5 players wind up in the Finals. And it makes the sport uninteresting.

I'll also add that sports where you have downtime to think about your execution are MUCH more mentally taxing than sports where you do most actions while in "the flow." Golf, baseball, and billiards (@DMC knows about that last one) are the sports I played in that mold growing up and they are much more mentally taxing than basketball and football, due to the fact you have downtime before every action where you can feel the pressure mount. Only the QB and kickers in football is faced with that and only when you shoot freethrows do you face that in basketball, which is why I always find it funny when people say a basketball player "choked" on a lay up. You don't have time to think enough to choke.

As for "complexity." Sure, team oriented goal sports will be more tactically complex by virtue of their design, whereas baseball is a hybrid team/individual sport, but I'll say that on an individual level, baseball requires more learning on the part of the player than basketball and football, which are coaching oriented games built around specialist positions. YOU have to figure it out at the plate. A coach can't call a play for you that frees you up, nor can you "hand off the offense" to another player if you don't like your matchup or situation, like scrub players deferring to Lebron or a QB taking over the offense.

You'll never "get it," and that's fine. But your arguments remain re ed and ignorant to this day, and you'll handwave away any evidence that contradicts you (e.g. evidence of how demanding baseball is: It's the sport with the highest washout of first round draft picks BY FAR. It's not a sport that a uber-athlete can take up senior year in high school and play at a high level, like all the NFL and NBA players who took up the sport late and made it. Or cases like Jerryd Hayne who made the NFL after 2 months or whatever despite never playing the sport).

[midnightpulp]

More of a sport than Pickupball

All the GOATS in many other sports love baseball.

“Michael told me, ‘Baseball was my first love,’ ” recalled Lofton, a six-time All-Star, four-time Gold Glove Award winner and five-time AL stolen base leader in his 17-year MLB career.

https://www.nhl.com/news/wayne-gretz...rs/c-286606386

"Playing baseball I learned many details that were useful to football, when you determine the flight of the pitch and judging it as a catcher without a perfect view. That sharpened one of my strengths as a footballer, having a wider field of vision. I learned to think ahead. It has many parallels with football: speed, acceleration, adaptation, balance, spatial awareness, anticipation, and more."

- Johan Cruyff

I think the problem with people from non-baseball playing countries like DAF is they are still under the impression (despite explanations) that baseball is just one guy throwing real hard or curvy and the other guy swinging real hard, so they can't understand the appeal of something so "simple." But there's a reason a large percentage of US athletes in other sports have played it at a high level and love the sport despite it being "slow." Because it's the only team sport aside from cricket where you control your own fate. Coaches can't call plays for you, you can't pass up shots and dump off to teammates, coaches can't subordinate you in the offense where you're simply a cog to Lebron's or Mahomes's machine, where you basically exist to make them shine. You are your own offense and your own coach.

A coach can't see Verlander's slider how you see it or Kershaw's curve like you see it. And this touches upon that idea the DAFs have of baseball being one guy throwing and one guy swinging. Every individual pitcher is their own unique defensive "formation," if you will. 95 from Josh Hader looks completely different than 95 from Drew Pomeranz. Pitchers, despite having the same pitches and velocity nominally, can have vast differences in spin rate, movement, release points, tunneling, pacing, and wind ups. This is why a hitter can be 10-20 against one pitcher and 1-20 against another, despite both pitchers being "equal" as far as on paper goes. And this ties with how much individual players need to study on their own.

DAF will say, "yeah, but NBA stars get different looks all the time with switches and different formations. Kawhi Leonard isn't the same "look" as Jimmy Butler for Lebron." Sure, but it's easier to solve for NBA players since they can impose their athleticism and get help from their teammates through picks, creating spacing, and so on. The clear evidence here is how consistent NBA players are game-to-game while elite MLB players can easily go into month long slumps. And from a fan perspective, I have to actually research baseball more to better follow at bats vs. what I have to know to follow basketball. Knowing each of the 9 batters hot zones, their chase rates, whiff rates, their splits, how they fare against different pitches and sequences, their splits against different pitchers, their performance in leverage situations, and so on.

And it's played out in the real world. Baseball is harder to solve, which is why we have Lebron in the Finals every year, while baseball actually has parity.

[DAF86]

Again, you show your re ation when discussing baseball. Baseball is considerably more mental than "flowing team" sports like soccer, basketball, etc. I've been over this with you countless times, and you'll never get it. Great swing mechanics are MUCH harder to develop than anything you'll do in those other sports. "Uh, but floptrot players use their feet and developing a jump shot is real, real hard." Sure, but you aren't punished anywhere near as severely for your mistakes in those sports. Lebron can miss 10 jumpers in a row and still have a good game because he gets so many offensive attempts. A soccer player can turn over the ball many times and more than often than not (since soccer is broken), it'll lead to nothing as we watch yet another 1-1 tie unfold.

You get 4 or 5 chances on offense in baseball and if you don't make something happen, that's it. No "second half" comeback after going 2-15. Even Jordan is quoted as saying, "Baseball is much harder mentally than basketball." And he's right. It's much easier for a talented player to impose his athletic will in basketball, soccer, or football. You can't "out athlete" a great pitcher. You need world class discipline, spatial recognition (to recognize the strike zone which doesn't have a physical representation), and deep knowledge of that specific pitching opponent to hit MLB pitching.

It's not uncommon for the best of the best players in the MLB to go a month without so much as an extra base hit. If we equate that to an NBA player scoring 20 points, how often does Lebron fail to score 20 points? And this ease of imposing your will in basketball is evidenced by just how consistent the star players are game to game and how many times top 5 players wind up in the Finals. And it makes the sport uninteresting.

I'll also add that sports where you have downtime to think about your execution are MUCH more mentally taxing than sports where you do most actions while in "the flow." Golf, baseball, and billiards (@DMC knows about that last one) are the sports I played in that mold growing up and they are much more mentally taxing than basketball and football, due to the fact you have downtime before every action where you can feel the pressure mount. Only the QB and kickers in football is faced with that and only when you shoot freethrows do you face that in basketball, which is why I always find it funny when people say a basketball player "choked" on a lay up. You don't have time to think enough to choke.

As for "complexity." Sure, team oriented goal sports will be more tactically complex by virtue of their design, whereas baseball is a hybrid team/individual sport, but I'll say that on an individual level, baseball requires more learning on the part of the player than basketball and football, which are coaching oriented games built around specialist positions. YOU have to figure it out at the plate. A coach can't call a play for you that frees you up, nor can you "hand off the offense" to another player if you don't like your matchup or situation, like scrub players deferring to Lebron or a QB taking over the offense.

You'll never "get it," and that's fine. But your arguments remain re ed and ignorant to this day, and you'll handwave away any evidence that contradicts you (e.g. evidence of how demanding baseball is: It's the sport with the highest washout of first round draft picks BY FAR. It's not a sport that a uber-athlete can take up senior year in high school and play at a high level, like all the NFL and NBA players who took up the sport late and made it. Or cases like Jerryd Hayne who made the NFL after 2 months or whatever despite never playing the sport).

So you agree with me? Thanks son, that was all the point I was making.

[midnightpulp]

I know you will never believe me but I really didn't need to google it. I love me some MLB games. Pitcher-1, Catcher-2, 1B-3, 2B-4, 3B-5, SS-6 and the outfielders I have no idea but I guess if you go from right to left like with the bases, RF would be 7, CF-8 and LF-9. The shortstop thing is obviously a typo.

But regardless of whether I knew or googled it (which is irrelevant to the discussion), how the is a standard double play suppossed to be some kind of complex concept to grasp? You tried to sound mysterious for non-baseball fans without realizing we might knew a thing or two (or like you said, we could have just googled it ) and hoped nobody would question the simple ass play you came up with.

Ok now, try to explain me the the concept of a high press, ball controlling, 3-4-3 soccer formation with overlaping centerbacks, inverted wings, a sweeper, a reggista, an enganche, a false 9 and a diamond shaped midfield. You can google it if you want.

Here's what you don't get. We see similar tactics in virtually all other goal sports. Soccer isn't unique with its use of formation variety, player positioning, and metagame. We see the same things in Field Hockey, Lacrosse, Gaelic Football, Hurling, and every other goal sport that has x amount of players running around on a rectangle trying to put a ball into a goal. I've said before, goal sports are derivative. It's the First Person Shooter of sports. Baseball/Softball's design is completely different with its only similarity being cricket, which really isn't all that similar, since cricket doesn't have anything like the count, no foul territory, different inning structure, and no progressive advancing from base to base, so scoring runs in baseball and cricket is quite different, while in goal sports, it's all the same: throw/kick the ball into something.

And there's nothing particularly complex about goal sports, either. Pressing, ball controlling, dense midfields with diamond or triangle shapes (for the purpose of clock/pace killing, since triangle/diamond shapes allow easier passing between players), sweepers, and decoys aren't unique to soccer. They are in every goal sport.

[midnightpulp]

So you agree with me? Thanks son, that was all the point I was making.

Not really. From a coaching or fan analyst perspective, goal sports are more complex. From an individual player perspective, bat-and-ball sports are more complex. You're often a specialist cog in the coach's machine in football, basketball, soccer, etc. Just because the overall gameplan might be "complex," doesn't mean your responsibilities are. I won't speak about soccer from an individual perspective, since I didn't play it, but playing basketball and football, you're really only tasked with a few simple jobs. Running back? Sweep is called? Stay behind your blockers and run hard. Dive play? Run hard and hit the hole the center and guard make. Deep post play? Run fast straight and then cut in toward the goal post after 15 yards. Only the QB is faced with any sort of "complex" decision making. Even offensive lineman aren't tasked with much, despite their rep as the "smartest football players." They just need to remember the plays, but there's no strategic thinking on their part.

Basketball is essentially the same thing. Go where coach tells you to go. "Film room" isn't about teaching strategy to the players, it's about refining their movement and execution. "See here, Tony, when that lane opens up like here, you need to hit it hard and take it to the rim. Don't pull up for the 9 foot floater."

A coach can't craft a gameplan for a hitter to help him beat a pitcher, because the coach won't perceive how that ball exits a pitcher's hand like the batter. You can't tell a hitter to "attack" the low fastball, because the low fastball might look unhittable to the batter. It's up to the batter to study the pitchers, know his own limitations, and craft his own plan per his abilities in order to have a good chance. And yes, I know Lebron probably studies the better defenders in the league, but what you have to know to beat a pitcher is a lot more than what you have to know to beat a basketball defender on a individual level.