Reply With Quotewould you trade parker and hand the reigns to speedy if it meant getting brand?
I think I'd do that in a heartbeat, would suck to send him to LALA land though :-/
I'm thinking this is not correct. I always understood it to be you could still Sign & Trade him to anyone but the team he signed the offer sheet with. Of course, Brand would still have to agree to the S &T and could say no if he didn't like the team he would go to.Once Brand signs a team's offer sheet, he's either going to that team or staying on the Clips (if they match). LA cannot sign-and-trade to anyone (including Utah) if Brand signs an offer from the Jazz.
Also, I've heard it bandied about that we could offer Sterling picks or something so he wouldn't match our offer sheet. This is illegal and can't be done.
jr
would you trade parker and hand the reigns to speedy if it meant getting brand?
I think I'd do that in a heartbeat, would suck to send him to LALA land though :-/
Can anyone clarify the situation with a S&T involving a player who has signed an offer sheet?
I would have only traded Parker if we had Kidd. No way I would do that now.
jr
grjr - INCORRECT. If there is an offer sheet signed, Sterling has TWO, and only two optioins: Match, or let go. He CANNOT work a S&T with a third team.
scott, I believe that genghis had an answer on that.
members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#74
Nothing about players with outstanding offer sheets.74. Can a free agent be signed and immediately traded?
Under no cir stances can a team sign and then trade another team's free agent. But there is a special rule that allows teams to re-sign their own free agents for trading purposes, called the sign-and-trade rule. Under the sign-and-trade rule, the player is re-signed and immediately traded to another team. This is done by adding a clause to the contract which stipulates that the contract is invalid if the player's rights are not traded to the specific team within 48 hours.
A sign-and-trade deal can be made even with players that have been renounced. However, a sign-and-trade deal cannot be made when the player was signed using the Mid-Level, $1 Million or Disabled Player exception. Sign-and-trade deals are only allowed if the contract is for three years or longer (however, only the first season of the contract must be guaranteed).
One complication with sign-and-trade deals is that the signed player can immediately become a BYC player (see question number 71 for more information on BYC), so it's the player's BYC value that must be used when determining whether the trade is allowed.
See question number 78 for more information on how long a team must wait after signing a contract before they can trade a player
I've thought the Spurs should have made an offer on him since the beginning; they (and many others) however where blinded by Kidd's star status. Now, we definately do have to make an offer, but if he decides to sign a one-year deal with the Clips, maybe we should just wait for him until next year.
Ghost, FAs can't be expected to just sit around and wait for the Spurs to decide. Maybe some will, but last summer a lot of players waited around to try for more money and many got screwed (e.g. Voshon Lenard). If we tell a guy like P.J. Brown, wait 15 days and then we might sign you, he's likely to turn around and re-sign in New Orleans, go to Dallas (they lost out on Zo and Karl so you'd better believe P.J. is next), or maybe even follow Silas up to Cleveland. I'd love to land Brand, but he's such a longshot that unless the Clips agree to a sign-and-trade, I don't think it's worth signing him to an offer.Losing Brown to who?
why are we STILL talking about Brand????...
Sterling HAS TO PAY AT LEAST ONE MAX SALARY just to get within the leagues MINIMUM SALARY GUIDELINES...
everyone KNOWS he is gonna give it to Brand, either matching or with a one year...
scott, look up restricted free agents on that FAQ.
83. When can't a player be traded? Can players be given "no-trade" clauses in their contracts?
A "no-trade" clause can be negotiated into an individual contract if the player has been in the NBA for at least eight seasons, and has played for the team with which he is signing for at least four seasons. They don't have to be the immediately prior four seasons -- for example, Horace Grant got a no-trade clause from Orlando when he signed with them in 2001. He had played for Orlando for four seasons, but had played for Seattle and Los Angeles in the interim. Very few players actually have one of these no-trade provisions. Otherwise, individually negotiated contracts may not contain no-trade clauses. The no-trade clause prevents the team from making a trade involving the player without the player's consent.
In addition, teams cannot trade players under the following cir stances:
-For two months after receiving the player in trade, if the player is being traded in combination with other players. However, the team is free to trade the player by himself (not packaged with other players) immediately. This two-month restriction applies only to teams over the salary cap. (Also see question number 70 for a special case where players can be traded together in less than two months.)
-When the trading deadline has passed. Teams are free to make trades again once their season has ended, but cannot trade players whose contracts are ending or could end due to an option.
-For three months or until December 15th of that season (whichever is later) after signing a contract as a free agent or draft rookie. (Note: This does not apply to players who sign contract extensions or who renegotiate their existing contracts. These players may be traded immediately.)
-When the player is playing under a one-year contract and will have Larry Bird or Early Bird rights at the end of the contract. Note: This includes first round draft picks following their fourth (option) season, who accept their team's qualifying offer for their fifth season.
-For one year after exercising the right of first refusal to keep a restricted free agent (however, the player can consent to a trade to any team except the team that tried to sign him).
-After claiming a player on waivers, for 30 days if the player was claimed during a season, or until the first day of the next season if the player was claimed during the offseason.
There seems to be a lot of confusion about the first bullet item above. A lot of media mistakenly report that a player cannot be re-traded for two months under any cir stances, even by himself. This is not true -- Danny Manning's trade from Phoenix to Orlando, and soon thereafter to Milwaukee is one example of the correct application of this trade rule. Other media reports confuse the sign-and-trade rule with this one, claiming that the player can be re-traded within 48 hours or after 60 days, but not in between.
The fourth bullet item above (players with one-year contracts can't be traded if they will be a Bird or Early Bird free agent) has an interesting implication. If a player has a two-year contract, but the second year is an option year, then the league treats it like a one-year contract and does not allow the player to be traded. If the option is exercised and the contract becomes a true two-year contract, then the player is tradeable. The Phoenix Suns had to exercise their team option on Corrie Blount before trading him to Golden State on 1/26/01.
This reads like we can do a S&T. The Clips match our behalf and Brand consents to be traded to us, since we did not try to sign him.
No talk of trades on the RFA section, Archie.
That is the only part of the RFA section that has any talk of trades- but it refers to the original team (Clippers) and the offering team (Jazz).A signed offer sheet can be rescinded within the 15 day waiting period if all three parties (the player and the two teams) agree. However, they could not do this in order to engineer a better deal (such as a sign-and-trade arrangement) between the teams.
Here you go. The Clips could match the offer and then trade to any other team but only with the player's consent. After a year they could trade to anyone.(f) After exercising its Right of First Refusal as described in this Section 6, the ROFR Team may not trade the Restricted Free Agent for one (1) year, without the player’s consent. Even with the player’s consent, for one (1) year, neither the ROFR Team exercising its Right of First Refusal nor any other Team may trade the player to the Team whose Offer Sheet was matched.
jr
Looks like my original idea is back in effect.
The only thing is Scott that the player has to agree to the trade if it's within a year. Would a free agent agree to go somewhere where he didn't sign an offer sheet? Presumably he wanted to go to the team that he signed the offer with originally.
Plus, this way it's not like a sign and trade where the player can get max increases. He would get the matched salary and 10% increases.
jr
Archie sends his apologies, scott.
PJ Brown is a dependable PF/C, but I'll roll the dice for two weeks to see if we can get Brand first.
I doubt Nesterovic, Olowokandi, et al will also sign during that time period.
Brand is too good not to perform due dilligence with.
scott, an offer is in effect a contract between the player and the offering team -- it counts against said team's cap and everything. The only way to break that contract is for the original team to exercise its right of first refusal and match the offer. The team cannot engineer a s&t while the offer is outstanding. There isn't any direct reference to s&t's, but it's implied. Look at the CBA:www.nbpa.org/cba/articleXI.html#section6(d) If, within fifteen (15) days from the date it receives an Offer Sheet, the ROFR Team gives to the Restricted Free Agent a "First Refusal Exercise Notice" substantially in the form of Exhibit H annexed hereto, such Restricted Free Agent and the ROFR Team shall be deemed to have entered into a Player Contract containing all the Principal Terms included in the Uniform Player Contract attached to the Offer Sheet.
(e) If the ROFR Team does not give the First Refusal Exercise Notice within the aforementioned fifteen (15) day period, the player and the New Team shall be deemed to have entered into a Player Contract containing all of the terms and conditions included in the Uniform Player Contract attached to the Offer Sheet.
(f) After exercising its Right of First Refusal as described in this Section 6, the ROFR Team may not trade the Restricted Free Agent for one (1) year, without the player’s consent. Even with the player’s consent, for one (1) year, neither the ROFR Team exercising its Right of First Refusal nor any other Team may trade the player to the Team whose Offer Sheet was matched.
(d) and (e) are the only avenues available to the original team once the offer is signed. (f) is the only way the player can be traded by the team within one year of matching the offer.
Apologize for what, GhostWanker?
Genghis,
So for the Spurs to call the Clips to match on our behalf and then work a trade later (with Brand's consent) would be tampering?
Even then, upon learning that Utah will extend an offer sheet (but before Brand signs it), what is stopping us from calling up the Clips and Brand's agent and trying to work a S&T then?
The Offer Sheet is meaningless until Brand signs it, right?
No need for anyone to apologize about anything. Most likely I'm wrong, since I am an admitted idiot when it comes to the CBA.
We are just a bunch of Spurs Fans tossing around a way to get Elton Brand in a Spurs uniform without running the risk of losing out on other FAs.
Yes, Brand has to sign an offer sheet for it to mean anything. I don't know if RC calling Baylor and telling him to match would be tampering (more like collusion :wink ), but why make a deal in such a roundabout way? If the Clips are willing to s&t Brand to us, why not just work that out with Brand and his agent to begin with? Either way, Elton has to agree to come to SA so there's no use in tricking him into signing the Jazz offer and then trading for him.
Well, the Jazz offer puts Sterling up against the wall. Whereas he may not be willing to work a S&T when there are no teams offering to take him away (and he can retain Brand on the cheap for at least 1 year)- things change when he is actually faced with the reality of having to pay Brand the max.
At least, that is my thinking.
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