O'Neal or Brand: The Spurs Only Chance...

[Admiral]

The only way Parker is moved is if the Spurs get something worthwhile in return. The Spurs don't plan on shipping him out just to ship him out. He and Kidd would form a pretty damn good backcourt if you would take your blinders off and think for once. -Archie

That's not what I meant. If we obtain Kidd, Parker will sign elsewhere when his contract is up with the Spurs. You can take that to the bank. It's common sense, Archie. Point guards want the ball, and Parker wouldn't be in charge of it with Kidd here. Not only that, but he is not big enough to play shooting guard on either end. On top of that, another team would offer him a nice deal and their starting PG spot. Think like a point guard (especially one with a killer instinct like Parker) and it is obvious.

If the Spurs were capped out now Spurs fans would be whining about that. Dammit have some ing patience. -Archie

I have been patient for two years. At some point, you have to evaluate and ask "how is this plan working?" If a verdict were given based on today's news, the answer would be "not very well."

[Archie]

I'm glad we have flexibility, but so far that flexibility isn't doing much for us.

****. No one can be signed yet and you are ing already. So far we've had two commitments...neither of whom where high on the Spurs list. And the Spurs are in the thick of things with Kidd. Relax.

It doesn't take regression analysis in your business statistics class to figure that out.

?

You make it sound like it is either tons of cap space or a team filled with long-term max deals to players who don't deserve it. I think most of us here would prefer something in the middle - an area that you conveniently omit when trying to win an argument.

Middle = DA. That's not hard to understand. The Spurs knew that DRob would retire. How can they be faulted for trying to build the best supporting cast long term for TD? You act as though they aren't. TD seems to think they are doing the right thing.

This is not about next season it is about the next 6 seasons. Figure it out.

[Archie]

I have been patient for two years. At some point, you have to evaluate and ask "how is this plan working?" If a verdict were given based on today's news, the answer would be "not very well."

WTF? See you want everything. Spurs just won a le and yet you complain. Spurs have max cap room and you complain because they can't guarantee themselves that they will sign X player. If you think things look that bleak I'd hate to see you when things really sucked.

[Archie]

That's not what I meant. If we obtain Kidd, Parker will sign elsewhere when his contract is up with the Spurs. You can take that to the bank. It's common sense, Archie. Point guards want the ball, and Parker wouldn't be in charge of it with Kidd here.

Parker is primarily a scorer not a playmaker. Of course you miss the obvious point that you have the league's best playmaker and post player on the same team. Yet a homer like you who is in love with Parker cannot see this.

Not only that, but he is not big enough to play shooting guard on either end.

He defends opposing 1s. Next.

On top of that, another team would offer him a nice deal and their starting PG spot. Think like a point guard (especially one with a killer instinct like Parker) and it is obvious.

You are thinking too much like a virtual GM. You are assuming way too much with respect to TP. You totally ignore the fact that this is the last time the Spurs will have this ability to add this level of talent to the team. Your view is simple and it is frankly a bore. At least you are a smart young man unlike Ghost but you are misguided like about what cons utes a horrible offseason for a NBA team.

[Admiral]

So now you're saying that Chris Mihm should have been traded for? Get real. -Archie

Here you go, dealing in extremes again. I did not want to trade for Mihm.

What I'm saying, ultimately, is that things are never 100% perfect in this league. -Archie

You don't say? It's a good thing that you are here to grace us with your unparalleled knowledge, or else we would not know a thing about the NBA. I hope it was obvious from my earlier posts that anything less that 100% perfection - and that includes missing even one field goal in a game - is unacceptable.

Seriously, I'm not expecting it to be 100% perfect. I am expecting a good return on investment, though. When that investment is two years of waiting, not just any "name" will do. Not for the fans who understand fit and chemistry, anyway.

I don't know wtf you think this is. The Spurs can't force players to sign with them and they can't get rid of certain contracts (ie DA) immediately if they need to. The Spurs decided that DA was not worth keeping long term. Now you tell us that was wrong. What gives? -Archie

I realize that the Spurs can't force players to sign with them, and that is exactly why I was against the Holting Pattern from the get-go. I am glad that we did not keep DA, and have not said anywhere that it was wrong for us to do the sign-and-trade. Where are you getting this stuff?

Damn. The Spurs just won a le and they have $16 mil in cap flexibility to shape this team for Duncan's prime. And now they have the flexibility to adjust to life with GP in LA. And you still complain. -Archie

Again, what has that flexibility gotten us? Nothing yet, so it's a little premature to be discussing the brilliance of the Fantasy Summer of 2003 plan. I said two years ago that this was too risky, and you said it was pure genius. I hope I'm wrong, and you're right, but so far it's not looking good for you Arch.

Tim Duncan doesn't deserve a lottery approach to building his supporting cast. I have no doubt that the Spurs are doing all they can, but free agency largely puts the players in control. Therein lies the problem. The Spurs should be deciding the Spurs' future, not free agents.

[Archie]

I realize that the Spurs can't force players to sign with them, and that is exactly why I was against the Holting Pattern from the get-go. I am glad that we did not keep DA, and have not said anywhere that it was wrong for us to do the sign-and-trade. Where are you getting this stuff?

Because losing DA was a part of the plan. Duh.

Again, what has that flexibility gotten us? Nothing yet, so it's a little premature to be discussing the brilliance of the Fantasy Summer of 2003 plan. I said two years ago that this was too risky, and you said it was pure genius. I hope I'm wrong, and you're right, but so far it's not looking good for you Arch.

What you don't seem to understand is that it is just as risky to cap yourself out long term without a second star. And another thing that you seem to be forgetting is that Tim Duncan had an option to be a free agent this summer and his deal for certain expired the next. The Spurs set themselves up with max cap flexibility in order to help them retain him. It's funny how Duncan's re-signing here was taken for granted when just 2 years ago it looked like the last possible thing. Also, do you really think the Spurs don't talk to Duncan about this stuff? You want to know what's risky? Capping yourself out with a bunch of non-star talent and then watching Duncan walk. That's risky.

Tim Duncan doesn't deserve a lottery approach to building his supporting cast. I have no doubt that the Spurs are doing all they can, but free agency largely puts the players in control. Therein lies the problem. The Spurs should be deciding the Spurs' future, not free agents.

A lottery approach is capping yourself out with non-star talent and hoping you get a franchise player out of the draft or that someone will trade you one....while your franchise's contract is expiring soon. That's not a good idea. There are two ways for a team to land a star...they draft one or they sign one as a free agent. It's less often that a trade of a superstar occurs.

You have such an misunderstanding of the Spurs situation. It was never assumed that Duncan would be back when the Spurs decided to target this summer as their time to restructure the team. Never. Yet you did. That is foolish.

[Archie]

Seriously, I'm not expecting it to be 100% perfect. I am expecting a good return on investment, though. When that investment is two years of waiting, not just any "name" will do. Not for the fans who understand fit and chemistry, anyway

Then the Spurs should just re-sign the entire team and never make any changes.

Do you really think the Spurs can afford to make minor adjustments over the next 5 seasons? That's risky. That's naive.

[Admiral]

WTF? See you want everything. Spurs just won a le and yet you complain. -Archie

Yes, we just won a le and I am ecstatic about it. I will probably never have a better moment as a sports fan. I do not see how that relates to free agency this summer though. Those are two separate issues. It's time to move on from the le celebration and work on the future.

Spurs have max cap room and you complain because they can't guarantee themselves that they will sign X player. If you think things look that bleak I'd hate to see you when things really sucked. -Archie

I am not expecting a guarantee that X player will sign. I would like to see us put ourselves in position to challenge for a le the next few years, and I don't see how we can with the Lakers' starting five including Shaq, Kobe, Payton, and Malone. Now that truly is a dream team lineup, and as a Spurs fan that concerns me.

What I would like to see is us have a realistic shot at signing a good big man. I had hoped to be in the thick of things with O'Neal and Brand, and it looks like both of those are unavailable. I can get excited about Kidd if he's who we get, but I will be somewhat disappointed for Tim since he really deserves a star big man next to him.

If we do get Kidd, how would you feel about trying to trade Parker for a young big man also on a rookie deal?

I really don't have any confidence in a Parker/Kidd backcourt, and don't feel that our roster lends itself well to "experimenting." As you stated, we need to win now while Duncan is in his prime. Although he scores too, I think Parker is still an NBA point guard. Out of fairness to him, and since he would probably leave anyway with Kidd on board, I would like to just go ahead and trade him if we obtain Kidd.

It would be a shame to see Parker blossom elsewhere, though.

[Archie]

Dammit they are working on that Admiral. We aren't there yet.

[NCaliSpurs]

Admiral -

Now that this whole kidd thing has been decided, I am starting to come around to what Pop is thinking?

Imagine Dallas with a true MVP and some hardnosed defense.

They could tear up the league, no matter what LA adds.

That is what pop is building here.

Kidd > Nash
Parker <= NVE (though he may be > NVE this year)
Manu/SJax ~= Finley (combine the numbers of these two and you will see I ain't crazy)
Duncan > Dirk
(Zo or Pj or Malone)/K. Willis/Malik > Lafrentz or Bradly

On paper, we would be similar, yet more talented (especially with the growth of young guards). On the court, we would still be a defensive monster, something Dallas has never been able to accomplish.

We could do some a fastbreaks with Kidd and Manu.

We could slow it down and put it in your throat in the half-court.

Bring it on LA.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Very interesting discussion.

At this point I'm willing to have some faith in Pop and RC - have they let us down recently??? Nooooo, they haven't. They are not stupid. They know that JKidd is not enough, that we need a starting quality centre as well. They know that Elton and Jermaine would probably fit us better. They want to develop Tony, Manu and Jax.

It's a balancing act, but it's one they're well paid for and I trust them to do it competently.

And don't forget TD - he knows what he needs beside him, players respect him... mark my words, we will come out of this summer set up just fine to contend again.

[MadeFromDust]

Right here!

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"Well, dip me in vanilla and call me Ric Barry!!" -Savory Johnson

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