Reply With QuoteOK, NCal.
I hear ya.
I disaree with you on some points, but I'll leave it at that.
Now about that big contest.....
This is quickly turning into who has a bigger contest. I didn't want to do that with you Carnac.
Look at his averages with 28 minutes. I posted them. That is not brilliance.Manu flashes are not just uncommon occurances, that's his game.
Talk about hard to be consistent off the bench, how hard is it to have the pressure of being the second-star on a team, but without the freedom to make mistakes, or to have a bad half.Sure, but how consistant can you be coming off the bench?
Scottie was not just important, he was integral. Tony had a huge responsibility in these playoffs and the regular season. With all the pressure on him, you can't say that he was merely a replaceable cog.That's like saying Scottie Pippen led the Bulls to six les. Parker was an important part
Micheal had Scottie. This year Timmy had Tony (for the regular season and somewhat in the playoffs).
As the Spurs proved this year, a lot can happen. I doubt anyone is gonna offer a long-term contract for more than 5 million. If we keep Parker and Kidd, then he may bolt anyway.Someone will pay him big bucks, and he'll most likely be gone next season. I'm afraid of that.
I give you that. Manu is very good on defense. Though I will admit that he gambles on big plays in big games. He needs some more seasoning. Touche.Yeah, unless you're not paying attention. His man has a very difficult time getting open. That's where Manu makes the biggest difference.
I was talking about his offense.
Cheers, friend.I take offense to that. I know hoops. I have learned from my mistakes, and I am not easily star-struck by players.
OK, NCal.
I hear ya.
I disaree with you on some points, but I'll leave it at that.
Now about that big contest.....
Is it so hard to conceive that people actually really BELEIVE Manu has GAME? It has to be because someone is argentinian or as ghost says because Manu is "white"This is quickly turning into who has a bigger contest. I didn't want to do that with you Carnac..
Bottom line is Manu is a player. Manu made a of a lot more difference for the Spurs when he wasn't shooting the ball than Parker and SJax did in their careers combined. Is it a coincidence? No Manu is a complete player -- 28mpg in his FIRST PLAYOFFS where he still didn't take that many shot attempts and never got any respect with foul calls-- and I would say Manu did pretty well.
TP was the second star but there were several playoff games where he wasn't any better than the average Spurs bench player. When it came down to the crunch time of Game 6 NBA Finals it was SPEEDY who finished the game not TONY. It wasn't the only night Tony was off in the finals or the playoffs for that matter.Talk about hard to be consistent off the bench, how hard is it to have the pressure of being the second-star on a team, but without the freedom to make mistakes, or to have a bad half.
Sure Tony was the second star but there were SEVERAL nights where the Spurs were a SECOND STAR by commitee. Jackson, Manu, Bowen, Claxton etc..... Comparing Tony and Scottie Pippen is ridiculous.
Look I like Tony and his potential -- but I wouldn't say he is a more versatile player than Manu right now. I think Manu has more than what he showed in the 3-4 months he was reasonably healthy.
:brotha
www.nba.com/features/nest..._stat.html
So out of the playoffs, we know Tim Duncan was the best player on the court.
Who was #2? I'll tell you this....IT WASN'T ONE OF THE 50 MOST BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE IN THE WORLD.
:eyebrow
man whats with all the hate on BOTH OF EM????
We can keep BOTH players.
WHY NOT SIGN EM BOTH???
WHy the who should we keep contest???
Weird. Lets agree there both great players in waiting and will be HUGE keys next year to returning to the FInals.
:brotha
No hate intended, just a look at how the pereption of each layers worth is in relation to an actual measure of performance. Nothing more, nothing less.2
bull .
Im tired of the Parker and Manu bashing.
Makes me sick.
Freaking Parker is the reason they won game 3 in the Finals.
Without him, they PFFFTTT out done.
Grow brains people, the Spurs need BOTH of em.
Love em both, dont try compare and contrast, jees louise.
bull .
Im tired of the Parker and Manu bashing.
Makes me sick.
Freaking Parker is the reason they won game 3 in the Finals.
Without him, they PFFFTTT out done.
Grow brains people, the Spurs need BOTH of em.
Love em both, dont try compare and contrast, jees louise.The fact is, it's not Manu who's getting a rap this offseason, compared in every complexity of his game to one of SUPERSTAR that play his spot and might take over his job soon.No hate intended, just a look at how the pereption of each layers worth is in relation to an actual measure of performance. Nothing more, nothing less.
Compared to Kobe, Manu would look like a humble rookie to him. But if our team has the chance of getting a superstar BIG capable of helping our team over the top, i won't discard Manu in any way in favor of Kobe.
People are complaining about the Best Point Guard in the league wanting to join the Spurs, because we already have Parker.
Would anyone be complaining if Kobe Bryant the best Shooting Guard in the league wanted to join the team, because we already have Ginobili?
Yes, MI21, if we can land a superstar BIG in other route also.
My stand on that scenario's basically the same with the one's on TP ( though i must say that the fact that Kobe is a TRUE top 3 player while Kidd is only top 10 -arguably- is somewhat temptating for me:eyebrow )
You think people would complain about adding Kobe. They would be crazy.
Ok, would people be worrying about bringing in Allen Iverson, a Top 10 player, not Top 3, because we have Ginobili?
Parker > Manu in the crunch??? WTF???
Manu has always made the important 3's in the fourth or the steals or the rebounds or what his team needed to win.
Parker takes almost the amount of shots Jax, BB and Manu added take, of course he is gonna be the second scorer. It's easy to get into rythm when you take 17-20 shots a game, but it's a lot harder when you shoot 5-8 times like Manu does. And it's worse if your PG freezes you cause he wants to play the pick and roll. In lots of possesions Parker doesn't make a single pass, he just bounces the ball in halfcourt and then asks for a pick and roll only to miss a jumper, but nobody seems to notice that.
Parker always gets praised when he scores like crazy but you know what? I'd rather have a PG who averages 8-10 assists and less points cause that assists mean that other people scored and got into rythm. I want my pg to involve everyone, not only TD. Jack and Manu are already inconsistant shooters, if our PG doesn't give them the ball they'll be even more inconsitant.
Parker is a very good player, but if his shot isn't falling he is worthless. Manu finds ways to contribute when he cannot score and that's something you don't see in the NBA too often, that's why he is so valuable.
Remember that Manu and mostly Jack were the ones nailing the important 3's in the 4º against Phoenix. Remember that Manu and BB were the ones who consistantly defended Kobe. Remember that Manu made Kobe work on D and blew by him at will while making every important basket in the series. Remember that Manu ignited most runs against NJ and DAllas. Remember that Manu closed game 6 against NJ along with Speedy.
And more importantly....
The Spurs had aprox a +170 point differential with Manu in the court in the playoffs.
I'd like to see if Parker's even close to that.
That is such an incomplete stat.The Spurs had aprox a +170 point differential with Manu in the court in the playoffs.
Perhaps Manu was on the Court with Duncan more than other players which of course means that his +\- is going to be higher. Somebody may have a lower +/- that another player, but if that player with the Lower rating was leading the team during those times, he could be deemed more valuable.
So that stat means little until all the variables that go along with it are shown.
Duncan played 42.5 mpg, EVERY SPUR play alongside TD almost the whole game. TD only gets rest when he is in foul trouble or in trash time.
Weak take.
I just still think there is to many variables in a stat like that for it to be a true indication of a Players affect of the game. I'm not doubting his effectiveness, just the actual statistic itself.
Perhaps getting a Log of all the Spurs Huge Playoff Runs and seeing who was involved heavily in them would be more effective, and I have to believe that Ginobili would be heavily involved in at least half of them. But that is way to much research, and I cant be bothered doing it
MI, 170 points is a big difference, some of that points are cause other players got hot but can you honestly say that Manu was so lucky that the got into the game everytime the team started a run and it was not because he was in?
There's a reason why Pop puts him in the game everytime there is a run from the opponent, Pop is very clever.
I think both Parker and Manu will continue to improve. I rate Manu's potential higher because he has a more all-around game. If Kidd comes, I would rather see a Kidd and Manu backcourt than Kidd and Parker. I think Manu moves better without the ball and Kidd would be the perfect person to pass to him.
This is not hate on Parker. A Kidd/Manu/Parker guard rotation would be fantantic, but I don't see either Manu or Parker happy to be in a backup role for 6 years. One of those two will not reach full potential.
If Kidd doesn't come, this whole discussion is irrelevant. We will get to see what develops.
This isn't a "who shold we keep?" hate-thread. I'm just saying I don't think Manu is getting the attention he deserves.
What I like about Manu's game is that he doesn't have to score a lot of points to help the team. That's why you see him in the game in the 4TH quarter at the end of games. He's like Jason Kidd a little, he goes after every rebound, steals and make great passes. When Parker's not scoring he sometimes suxs. He stops playing hard, he doesn't know how to just do the other things when he's not scoring. I think Manu can be a good scorer on the team if they needed him to do that or ran plays for him.
You know far be it from me to rock the boat but..
I keep noticing everyone loves guys that help the team without scoring..and in truth we have a lot of those guys..
Duncan often helps the team without scoring when he is being guarded by more than one person
Rose is a hustle guy
Bowen helps with his defense
Manu helps the team without scoring
Kidd isn't really a scorer but helps his team in other ways...
You know what that's gonna make us? A hard working team that can't score. Sound familiar? It does to me..
How about we get some guys in the lineup that help the team with their scoring? Cuz I have never seen a team win without outscoring another team.
Manu can score, he's been a scorer his whole career. But to score he has to shoot, and he is not a spot up shooter, he is way better with the ball in his hands. That's why I want him creating and Parker finishing. With Manu as a creator and Parker and Jax as finishers this team would become a lot better offensively IMO.
I like the tune you are singing Fizzar.
This backcourt can be damned good with some time to grow together. Kidd ain't going to let that happen though.
Fizzar you nailed it..I have no problems with Manu getting the ball more often...in fact I think it's something we must do to keep him here. And I think he and Parker will match up well that way..that's one of the reason I am against Kidd to the degree I am...Manu has a very similar game to Kidd only he can slash as well as pass..I want to see our young guys, that we have already won a le with in their first and second year in the league, develop. Not ride the bench and leave next year or the year after. And I mean it's not like we can't play the transition game with Manu and Parker.. who is gonna catch Parker on the break? No one. Anyway I think Manu is not going to get the ball as much with Kidd here..he is going to be more of spot up shooter than he is with Parker and Duncan.
I am still crossing my fingers that Brand is going to want to play for us either this year or next.
I think this year will be very different.
Pop's plans to integrate Manu to the offense were delayed because of Manu's ankle. Also Manu didn't have the respect of the refs and he would have gotten hacked without calls lots of times.
Now that Manu showed what he can do, IMO Pop will use his abilities as a creator. When he played in Kinder he shared the PG duties with Jaric (who is also a shooting PG) and they did pretty well, in fact they won almost every compe ion they were in.
Parker showed that he is not ready to take over the show yet and Manu proved that he has ice in his veins. If they share the PG duties both will benefit. Manu will do what he does best, handle the rock and create offense While Parker won't have so much burden on his back and will play calmer cause he knows he has a teammate that can bail him out when he is having those ugly lapses he has.
This way, Manu will get into the flow of the game faster and TP will get a lot of open shots from Manu's penetrations.
It's a win win situation.
Lets not forget that the whole team would benefit from this, not just Parker.
Jack can become a spot up shooter, which he excels at. This way he would avoid those kamikaze penetrations.
Tim, Malik and hopefully Brand or JO would get easy baskets cause Manu loves to drive and dish. And with Parker, Jax and/or BB waiting in the 3pt line teams will have to respect them and free room in the paint.
Manu is no Kidd but he makes his teammates better too, hopefully you'll see what I mean next season. So far, almost all my predictions about Manu bece true, this one won't be the exception.
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