Gary "The Glove" Payton

[Ghost Writer]

travis, for every non-point you've thrown at me, I've trumped you with a factual response and an amusing insult for the fun of it.

You're way has failed.

Understand that 3 bench guys and a 20 year old PG are not worth having over a perennial All-Star.

You'd probably inist on keeping Kevin Willis, Danny Ferry, Bruce Bowen and Speedy Claxton if the Nets wanted them for Jason Kidd.

You're that much of a hopeless homer.

Watch some NBA sometime, dope.

[travis2]

for every non-point you've thrown at me, I've trumped you with a factual response and an amusing insult for the fun of it.

You wouldn't know a fact if it jumped up and kicked you in the balls. (ahhhhhhh....I now understand the problem....)

You'd probably inist on keeping Kevin Willis, Danny Ferry, Bruce Bowen and Speedy Claxton if the Nets wanted them for Jason Kidd.

You're on a roll with your incorrect assumptions. A string of inep ude possibly never to be equalled. That is, until you post again.

Watch some NBA sometime, dope.

I'm surprised you even know how to spell NBA. Idiot.

[Ghost Writer]

Still waiting for some substance, travis.

Let's start at the beginning:

Do you know who Gary Payton is and are you familiar with the kind of career he's had to date?

[travis2]

I am.

And I'm still waiting for you to have the balls to answer my original question.

What makes you think Payton guarantees the Spurs a le?

I have yet to have you answer it. Coward.

Put up or STFU.

[sportcamper1]

Welcome to the FSP.com Message Board.

While we promote and support conversation about basketball and other sports topics, we will not support topics that promote or contain violence, hatred, and excessive profanity. Those types of posts will not be tolerated.

[travis2]

While we promote and support conversation about basketball and other sports topics, we will not support topics that promote or contain violence, hatred, and excessive profanity. Those types of posts will not be tolerated.

That's right, and if you don't f*cking like it we will come down there and kick your yellow @$$, just on general principles. Because we hate idiots like you.

[sportcamper1]

I just thought that as long as I was up I could get everyone a tail…So we can all chill a bit…

And you did not hear it from me but I also heard that Payton was Quoted as saying that he was willing to take a pay cut to play with Shaq & Kobe...

Ducking for cover!!!!!!

[Ghost Writer]

"What makes you think Payton guarantees the Spurs a le?" — travis

Show me where I guaranteed that, twit.

All I guaranteed is that your way has failed thus far.

We will never know if Payton would've gotten us over the hump last year or this year.

We've covered this.

I still don't know why you value Parker and Rose (Smitty doesn't play and will be gone and Daniels is gone and doesn't play) more than Payton.

You obviously doubt the Spurs front office's ability to fill out a bench.

Sad, considering that is what this franchise excels in.

Sadder, when a strong starting five, predicated upon at least two stars, seems to be the formula for success today.

And with that, travis has left the building.

[sportcamper1]

Actually Ghost, Travis keeps a rigid schedule... I think he teaches physics on Monday Evenings….

[KoriEllis]

Honestly, I don't get all the Payton talk.

If you are talking about adding Payton at a reduced rate for a short-term contract, then I guess I see it. But if you are talking about Payton being the coveted 2003 free agent, then I think I'd rather have Olowokandi. :vomit

[baseline bum]

I really see Payton in Portland next season. Whitsett is in love with Randolph and wants to move Rasheed. I could see them making a Sheed for Payton + Tim Thomas kind of deal.

[travis2]

If you are talking about adding Payton at a reduced rate for a short-term contract, then I guess I see it. But if you are talking about Payton being the coveted 2003 free agent, then I think I'd rather have Olowokandi.

Bingo, Kori. Very reduced rate.

When you need a pickup truck it is the height of idiocy to go out and buy a Ferrari. Especially when you already have a newer-model Corvette in the garage.

But then, Ghost, actually using your head and thinking things through never was your strong suit. As long as you get a name, you're happy. Name = championship as far as you're concerned.

As far as "filling out the bench"...with what, bozo? Good wishes? People aren't going to play for free, you know (or you would if you had paid attention in school), and the "bench" the Spurs would have been forced to buy given the amount of money they would have had left...well, you may be a Mengke Bateer fan, but the rest of us aren't. And you wanted 4 stiffs.

I guess that's why you aren't an NBA GM...complete lack of qualifications or ability. Are you actually qualified to do anything?

And with that, travis has left the building.

You wish...I realize you're tired of me kicking your ass all over this forum. But there's an easy way to get me to stop.

Learn something.

[Walton Buys Off Me]

I guess somebody forgot the images of Gary Payton getting ABUSED by Tony Parker in last year's first round.......

[Walton Buys Off Me]

You know you're in trouble when your DAD comes on the air and says he's gonna smack you around tonight..............

Hey Gary's a great player and a future hall-of-famer and if he had been on the Spurs squad last year, we might have beaten the Lakers but I'm not too sure- Parker was pretty good against LA in the playoffs remember?

Bottom line is Gary's on the decline and Parker just might be the best twenty-year old in the game today, playing for the best team, at arguably the toughest position- why get rid of Tony?

[Ghost Writer]

For the amount of time and posts I've devoted to the Gary Payton '01 topic, I am constantly amazed at how many people still don't get it.

In monkey terms:

• In the summer of 2001, the Spurs turned down a deal that would've brought Gary Payton to San Antonio for the rights to Tony Parker, Antonio Daniels, Malik Rose and the salary spot that eventually resulted in Steve Smith vis the Derek Anderson and Steve Kerr trade

• In the playoffs of 2002, Sonics Coach Nate McMillain had Gary Payton double down on Tim Duncan and leave Tony Parker open. His exact words were, "... we're gonna make Tony Parker beat us. I need my best defender [Payton] helping on Duncan..."

• In the summer of 2002, I insisted that Spurs fans should shift focus from Jason Kidd and Jermaine O'Neal and settle on Michael Olowokandi for significantly less than the max in 2003.

• Now, Gary Payton may also be available to the Spurs this summer for significantly less than the max.

• To this day, I maintain that trading Parker, Daniels and Rose and the salary slot that yeilded Smith to get Payton in 2001 would've gotten the Spurs closer to a le than the status quo as we know it.

Breaking it down like an organic compound:

• Again, Parker was an unproven commodity who is still not a top 10 PG today.

• Rose is a bench 'tweener.

• Daniels is no longer on the Spurs.

• Smith no longer sees time for the Spurs.

• The Spurs have a long history of filling out benches with castoffs and neverweres who become serviceable players under cheap contracts.

• In 2002, Gary Payton — a perennial All-Star who took a Sonics team to the Finals — recorded his best season statistically and leadership-wise as a pro.

• To date, Gary Payton has not signed a long-term contract.

Conclusion:

The Spurs could've had the best PG of the last decade for the low cost of a late first rounder, a combo guard who we later traded, an overachieving frontcourt sub, and an old guard who rides the pine today.

If we didn't win a le or two with Payton from 2001-03, then we simply could let him walk, as he will probably do this summer after his contract expires.

Apology Accepted™

[travis2]

And I maintain that Duncan, Payton, and a carton of eggs would have done nothing to bring a le to SA.

Apology not given...none required

[Ghost Writer]

travis, you poor, misguided soul.

What do you think we have now?

We have Duncan, Robinson, Parker and a carton of eggs.

My way, we would have Duncan, Robinson, Payton and a carton of eggs, dope.

Benches don't win les, moron! Stars do.

Re-read and learn:

For the amount of time and posts I've devoted to the Gary Payton '01 topic, I am constantly amazed at how many people still don't get it.

In monkey terms:

• In the summer of 2001, the Spurs turned down a deal that would've brought Gary Payton to San Antonio for the rights to Tony Parker, Antonio Daniels, Malik Rose and the salary spot that eventually resulted in Steve Smith vis the Derek Anderson and Steve Kerr trade

• In the playoffs of 2002, Sonics Coach Nate McMillain had Gary Payton double down on Tim Duncan and leave Tony Parker open. His exact words were, "... we're gonna make Tony Parker beat us. I need my best defender [Payton] helping on Duncan..."

• In the summer of 2002, I insisted that Spurs fans should shift focus from Jason Kidd and Jermaine O'Neal and settle on Michael Olowokandi for significantly less than the max in 2003.

• Now, Gary Payton may also be available to the Spurs this summer for significantly less than the max.

• To this day, I maintain that trading Parker, Daniels and Rose and the salary slot that yeilded Smith to get Payton in 2001 would've gotten the Spurs closer to a le than the status quo as we know it.

Breaking it down like an organic compound:

• Again, Parker was an unproven commodity who is still not a top 10 PG today.

• Rose is a bench 'tweener.

• Daniels is no longer on the Spurs.

• Smith no longer sees time for the Spurs.

• The Spurs have a long history of filling out benches with castoffs and neverweres who become serviceable players under cheap contracts.

• In 2002, Gary Payton — a perennial All-Star who took a Sonics team to the Finals — recorded his best season statistically and leadership-wise as a pro.

• To date, Gary Payton has not signed a long-term contract.

Conclusion:

The Spurs could've had the best PG of the last decade for the low cost of a late first rounder, a combo guard who we later traded, an overachieving frontcourt sub, and an old guard who rides the pine today.

If we didn't win a le or two with Payton from 2001-03, then we simply could let him walk, as he will probably do this summer after his contract expires.

Apology Accepted™

[picnroll]

I'm sure Holt was just dying to endure the pouting, pissing, and moaning regarding a contract extension that Payton has dished out the last two years.

[travis2]

Benches don't win les, moron! Stars do.

Remind me how many rings Payton has again?

Idiot.

Game, set, match.

[Ghost Writer]

picnroll, you mean like with Steve Smith?

By the way, Payton doesn't have that contract and he's still kicking @ss.

Try again™

[sportcamper1]

We have Duncan, Robinson, Parker and a carton of eggs.

Can we at least get a courtesy laugh at that one?

[picnroll]

I don't think Smith's P&Ming has been as persitent or public.

You have chronic Payton delusions and short term vision.

[romsho]

For chrissakes, we get it already! Obviously the Spurs organization did not think getting Gary Payton for a couple of years would be enough to put them over the top with what was left over outside of Tim and David.

Furthermore, they also obviously really like the idea of not only contending for the next five or six years with young athletic talent, but having the cap space to put whatever pieces are needed in place to have a dominant starting five and bench help that is not just table scraps. Steve Smith could have been moved easily by now, but they wanted the cap space-results still pending.

The "win now with Payton" argument would make alot more sense if Tim Duncan were locked into a long term contract. Why would Duncan stay with little more than an aging point guard, Dave retiring and that same"carton of eggs"? He wouldn't, the Spurs would have no future, and all that and still a championship ring to show for it would be questionable at best.

As it is they may win a championship this year, they are in the best shape of any NBA team in regards to the cap, all while in a "rebuilding" mode. In short, they have their cake and will eat it too. I think I'll go with Popovich and the like on this one.

[travis2]

Everybody gets it, romsho.

Everyone except one, that is...

[Ghost Writer]

The problem here is that you homers overestimate "what is left besides Robinson, Duncan and Parker".

The fact is that the rest of the Spurs are players nobody wanted before or don't want anymore now.

The bench guys have come and gone for the Spurs over the years.

Only Malik Rose remains as a consistent holdover from the 1999* team!

That should tell you that the Spurs can easily fill out a bench and get decent players to perform better.

At the end of the day, it all boils down to:

Payton '01 > Parker '01 + Rose '01

A five year old NBA fan could see the Spurs made the conservative mistake in 2001 by Holt-ing on to several okay players instead of acepting the trade for an elite one.