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  1. #26
    The Usual Suspect
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    I just love it when people come in here, guns blazing, acting all y and like they know everything (when all they post is OPINION)...and then are shocked when people shoot back.

    It is amusing on a slow Monday morning, though.

    About the only flaw in Tony's game is his shooting. If he was a better shooter, that might open up the paint for Duncan a little more. But that has nothing to do with being a "true" point guard...
    Precisely. And Pop is happy with Tony more than he's not happy with him these days. When that changes, we will know about it. And, as long as Tony is playing the game Pop wants him to play (no matter what the nay-sayers here think or say - they are both getting paid a of a lot more than any of us, I'd bet on it), I'm a happy camper.

  2. #27
    Eh, Fuck It. easjer's Avatar
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    So looking at tapes is a waste of time? How do you show the absence of things? Quite simple - you look at what is there and then look at the play that was drawn up or footage of what you think should be there and examine what is missing. Who was in the wrong place on the rotation? Where was the ball supposed to be.

    What seems to be missing here is that your statements cannot be validated because they are opinions only. You are welcome to them, but you can't do much if people think you are an idiot because of the opinions you hold. You cannot demand proof if you are not willing to provide it.

    You can think I'm an utter moron because I love Tony's style of play and disagree with you entirely. I've witnessed Tony grow over the last three years, so that where he would formerly try to penetrate impetuously he now, slows down, allows the players to set and evaluates a play. Where he used to force shots or play he puts in an extra pass. Further, I've seen that where he used to look to Pop or Tim before every pass or shot, he now takes charge. I think that is maturity, and to me, evidence of his ball handling skills (which I've seen at every tempo) and court vision. Would I consider his BB IQ to be as high as say Brent Barry? No. But when he's played in the NBA for seven more years? Yes.

    Disagree all you want, I'm not going to argue further with you.

    As to the original post, I don't think that would help us. I like Tony's game and a 'typical' point guard would do more to push everything through Tim, which is dangerous. It can be done and will work a lot of the time, but when people figure it out (where they like to pass and stand) or when Timmy's having a bad night, your offense collapses. I like that our pg is able to diversify things and give us another top notch weapon. I like that you don't know who they will go to next. That they can switch out as necessary (when defense is crowding Parker, when they are fronting Timmy, when Manu is having a bad night). It's a real luxury.

  3. #28
    Pimp Marcus Bryant's Avatar
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    Damn. If the Spurs had a true point guard they might finally win a championship.

  4. #29
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    did stockton and kidd every win a damm le?

    and stockton had a big man name mailman

  5. #30
    Who is this guy, again? travis2's Avatar
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    So looking at tapes is a waste of time? How do you show the absence of things? Quite simple - you look at what is there and then look at the play that was drawn up or footage of what you think should be there and examine what is missing. Who was in the wrong place on the rotation? Where was the ball supposed to be.

    What seems to be missing here is that your statements cannot be validated because they are opinions only. You are welcome to them, but you can't do much if people think you are an idiot because of the opinions you hold. You cannot demand proof if you are not willing to provide it.

    You can think I'm an utter moron because I love Tony's style of play and disagree with you entirely. I've witnessed Tony grow over the last three years, so that where he would formerly try to penetrate impetuously he now, slows down, allows the players to set and evaluates a play. Where he used to force shots or play he puts in an extra pass. Further, I've seen that where he used to look to Pop or Tim before every pass or shot, he now takes charge. I think that is maturity, and to me, evidence of his ball handling skills (which I've seen at every tempo) and court vision. Would I consider his BB IQ to be as high as say Brent Barry? No. But when he's played in the NBA for seven more years? Yes.

    Disagree all you want, I'm not going to argue further with you.

    As to the original post, I don't think that would help us. I like Tony's game and a 'typical' point guard would do more to push everything through Tim, which is dangerous. It can be done and will work a lot of the time, but when people figure it out (where they like to pass and stand) or when Timmy's having a bad night, your offense collapses. I like that our pg is able to diversify things and give us another top notch weapon. I like that you don't know who they will go to next. That they can switch out as necessary (when defense is crowding Parker, when they are fronting Timmy, when Manu is having a bad night). It's a real luxury.
    Now that is a post...

  6. #31
    Pimp Marcus Bryant's Avatar
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    The Spurs could have Parker dominate the offense and rack up close to 10 assists a night. The question is whether or not that is in the best interest of the team. I think not.

    Some of you seem incapable of judging Parker's point guard skills.

  7. #32
    Big D
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    So looking at tapes is a waste of time? How do you show the absence of things? Quite simple - you look at what is there and then look at the play that was drawn up or footage of what you think should be there and examine what is missing. Who was in the wrong place on the rotation? Where was the ball supposed to be.

    What seems to be missing here is that your statements cannot be validated because they are opinions only. You are welcome to them, but you can't do much if people think you are an idiot because of the opinions you hold. You cannot demand proof if you are not willing to provide it.
    The explanation is simple, it is zillion times more difficult to go into game tapes looking for plays were he was missplaced or did the wrong move (however, you can remember the latest playoffs and him beeing unable to control the tempo, I'm sure you can figure out)...it's quite easier to have the best TP plays, and see if such plays are almost 100% scoring moves with penetration, and if you see such best plays selection, you'll note the absense of great court vision moves...that's what I'm talking about of how easier would be to present evidences of his great court vision, if it would exist.

    You can think I'm an utter moron because I love Tony's style of play and disagree with you entirely. I've witnessed Tony grow over the last three years, so that where he would formerly try to penetrate impetuously he now, slows down, allows the players to set and evaluates a play. Where he used to force shots or play he puts in an extra pass. Further, I've seen that where he used to look to Pop or Tim before every pass or shot, he now takes charge. I think that is maturity, and to me, evidence of his ball handling skills (which I've seen at every tempo) and court vision. Would I consider his BB IQ to be as high as say Brent Barry? No. But when he's played in the NBA for seven more years? Yes.
    Sorry to disagree, but about tony development, it is indrebidle that tony hasn't added things to their skillset, he's still great at dribbling and penetrating at warp speed, but his shooting neither, tempo handling or court vision hasn't improved yet...

  8. #33
    Senior Member conqueso's Avatar
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    The explanation is simple, it is zillion times more difficult to go into game tapes looking for plays were he was missplaced or did the wrong move (however, you can remember the latest playoffs and him beeing unable to control the tempo, I'm sure you can figure out)...it's quite easier to have the best TP plays, and see if such plays are almost 100% scoring moves with penetration, and if you see such best plays selection, you'll note the absense of great court vision moves...that's what I'm talking about of how easier would be to present evidences of his great court vision, if it would exist.
    I'm not really understanding what you mean when you say Tony doesn't have good court vision. Is it because he doesn't make no-look passes like Kidd? Or because he only averages 5.7 assists per game and isn't in the double digits like Nash or Stockton? He's very good a leading a fast break, and yes that has a lot to do with his speed and amazing ability to finish, but it also requires great court vision; he's able to see the seams in the defense and know where the trailers are and where they're going to be.

    And while this point has already been made, I think it's worth repeating: Tony's decision-making has improved substantially over the last two seasons. Pop has made this observation to the media several times. Parker knows what plays to run and when to run them...Pop has admitted that he has less play-by-play control over the offense now and has turned over the reins to Parker most of the time. I can't see Pop doing this if he didn't have supreme confidence in Parker's court vision and leadership.

    Tony is able to control the tempo of the game, albeit not like someone like Arenas can. He has the patience to slow down the secondary break and set up the half-court offense. He can also push the ball up the floor and beat three or four defenders to the rack. Pop has lauded him for both of these traits.

    And when you see the "best TP plays" or whatever, remember that you're watching game highlights, and they aren't going to show anything that isn't scoring or flabbergasting, how-did-he-do-that passing. You won't see Parker dribbling at the top of the key for a few seconds, reading the defense, and calling a play on Sportcenter.

    To say that penetrating the lane and throwing up a soft floater over two 7 foot defenders lacks court vision is to betray your lack of knowledge about the game.

  9. #34
    Hell Yea I'm A Spurs Fan
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    all that matters is Duncan is all ready a 1st ballet HOFer and that the Spurs win

    stats only matter to fantasy players

  10. #35
    The Usual Suspect
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    all that matters is Duncan is all ready a 1st ballet HOFer and that the Spurs win
    Timmy's a dancer now?

  11. #36
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    no other player on the spurs other then duncan matter
    waive the other players and just sign the min players

  12. #37
    Multimedia Spurs
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    "ballet"

    Tim does act like a Prima Donna when he es up and down the court about no-calls.

  13. #38
    The Usual Suspect
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    Or is it true just because you say so?
    There's a lot of that going on around here.

    "ballet"

    Tim does act like a Prima Donna when he es up and down the court about no-calls.
    Hmmm. I have never seen Tim do that. I have seen him talk to referees to clarify calls. I have even seen him openly disagree with referees on no-calls, but then he puts his head down, trots down the court and gets back to business. I have never seen him " up and down the court" about anything. Perhaps you were being facetious?
    Last edited by pache100; 11-28-2005 at 03:50 PM.

  14. #39
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
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    Well, I've seen games in which Tony Parker descended from the heavens into the stadium, proving himself to be a god. Also games where Pop was busy on the sidelines signing pacts in blood with Satan himself. Also, the refs were pretty fairies dancing in tutus.

    If you haven't seen that, prove me wrong by describing the games you've seen that aren't like that.

    Stunning argument, my limited basketball fundamentals are reeling. Also, plenty of people take the time to edit their posts. It makes you look more intelligent.
    ROFL

  15. #40
    Believe.
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    Parker is strictly a scorer. He's not a play maker, not a good defender, not a good leader, and not a good rebounder. He's a poor mans Gilbert Arenas.

  16. #41
    Eh, Fuck It. easjer's Avatar
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    There's a lot of that going on around here.



    Hmmm. I have never seen Tim do that. I have seen him talk to referees to clarify calls. I have even seen him openly disagree with referees on no-calls, but then he puts his head down, trots down the court and gets back to business. I have never seen him " up and down the court" about anything. Perhaps you were being facetious?

    Sadly, I have seen Tim do that. Not often, certainly not every night, but every few games, when he thinks he's not getting his calls, he can be a bit missish. Of course, that's just my opinion, so take it for the $0.02 that's it is worth.

  17. #42
    Still Hates Small Ball Spurminator's Avatar
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    I'll say it for you...

    "Tony Parker is a selfish, me-first point guard. He shouldn't be scoring so much, he should be racking up 10-12 assists per game like all real point guards."

  18. #43
    Multimedia Spurs
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    "I have never seen Tim do that"

    In the loss @WIZ, he did it so much when played tough by the Wiz big men, he ed up his head and his game, which was major factor in the Spurs losing that game.

    Sometimes the ONLY emotion seen from Tim is when he's pissed off about no calls or bad calls.

  19. #44
    From Down... Under xcoriate's Avatar
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    I'd like to thank travis2, 101A and easjer for taking up the charge while I slept

  20. #45
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    He had a true PG, not a shooting PG. I'm talking about a Ridnour, Kidd, Nash, Stockton, even Brevin Knight. Despite the fact that I like Parker better than any of these players, Duncan might be better off.

    In no way do I want a trade or any like that--- this is more of just a "what if" thing.

    Thoughts?
    Duncan has a true PG with a good outside shot sitting on the end of the bench getting zero minutes.

  21. #46
    Eh, Fuck It. easjer's Avatar
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    I'd like to thank travis2, 101A and easjer for taking up the charge while I slept


    My pleasure.

  22. #47
    <><><><><><> ALVAREZ6's Avatar
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    I think TP has an All-Star game mentality this year, he is really aggressive and is taking more shots than last year. He's doin a great job though.

  23. #48
    Bump
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    Horrible thread.

    Ridnour is a shoot-first PG if I've ever seen one. Biggest ballhog since Steve Francis.

  24. #49
    <><><><><><> ALVAREZ6's Avatar
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    Horrible thread.

    Ridnour is a shoot-first PG if I've ever seen one. Biggest ballhog since Steve Francis.
    Steve Francis is a perfect example of a terrible PG, terrible player overall. Way over-rated.

  25. #50
    uups stups! Cant_Be_Faded's Avatar
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    He had a true PG, not a shooting PG. I'm talking about a Ridnour, Kidd, Nash, Stockton, even Brevin Knight. Despite the fact that I like Parker better than any of these players, Duncan might be better off.

    In no way do I want a trade or any like that--- this is more of just a "what if" thing.

    Thoughts?

    you just turned my dreams to flames

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