Weird question...physics related

[SpursforSix]

10715369[/URL]]Oh yes it’s hard, ESPECIALLY with barbed wire. Double stranded wire without barbs is much, much easier. Putting in the H posts, the wooden post that gives it stability along with just wooden posts can be very difficult, even with an auger on a tractor if the soil is packed.

changing the subject back again that wire can expand and contract a whole lot I’m thinking, so I asked the guys I was doing this with about the tension requirements. We did this fencing in eastern Colorado where you can get 90’s in the summer and -20F in the winter through many seasons. I thought it might snap the wood posts, even the ones in the H posts. They were totally unconcerned so I looked at the other older fencing and it was fine. We used a tractor with a “come along” for the tensioning. It still worries me now but the other guys said “high tensile strength” and I just said “okay” So I still don’t get it. During the winter storm we had a huge telephone pole just snap in the cold. My neighborhood stayed offline for an extra day and a half when the rest of SA had power. Lots of physics/chemistry going on in the above that I’m not sure about.

Anyways, barbed wire is not pulled nearly as tight as other wire cause it will snap. It’s a total pain in the ass.

(Incoming “I’ll show you a …. )

Oh… we also used a gasoline powered T post pounder. Hard to lift but you just let her rip and it pounds them in easily. That also made the job easier.

OK. You clearly win. I dealt with a lot of 100 degree days pulling barbed wire and setting posts without an auger. But as soon as you talk about sub zero (even just freezing), I’m out. At least with the heat, you can feel all your parts.

[pgardn]

OK. You clearly win. I dealt with a lot of 100 degree days pulling barbed wire and setting posts without an auger. But as soon as you talk about sub zero (even just freezing), I’m out. At least with the heat, you can feel all your parts.

You win.

I put this fence up in 50 degree weather for the most part. The friend that I helped never fences during extremely hot or cold because it totally sucks. I was just thinking about what happens when his fence does experience extreme temps. I waited to fly up to help based on weather (nice for fencing) and my job. You probably had to work in the heat and you did. Aside: When he let the horses into the new 10 acres fenced off they ran the perimeter like 3 times checking out their new “pasture”. It was amazing. After they settled they came up to us kind of excited and happy it seemed.

And you put up barbed wire in the heat…. You win by a mile imo.

Btw we also burned a huge amount of tumble weed on the existing fences. He thought most of it was done for the season. Wrong. The new fence is full of it. Another physics/chemistry observation: The wire noticeably sagged when the fire got really hot. Then it straightened back up noticeably after about an hour at ~ 50 F. We also made sure what the wind forecast was and did not burn big amounts all at once. Some parts of Colorado are extremely dry. The climate is very up and down erratic now almost every season. Fires are something you have to be very careful with.

[pgardn]

Humans didn't do those trig functions, though. They were all done with state of the art computer assistance.

Heck, FORTRAN, the original math computer language that can do trig and diff equations, has been around since the time of JFK. It's not novelty.

What? The Greeks invented these triangle side ratios and then found out they followed cyclical/now called wave patterns? Computers do this much faster and much more accurately. As humans started observing phenomena over and over again they found that trig functions described them very well. Trig was invented for play and building problems then we found it useful in other ways later.

Computers basically made the hand calculations much faster.. Trig is basically how the ratio of the sides of a triangle changes based on angle changes. As you go from zero to 90 degrees the ratios change unevenly. If you use negative numbers as well you find you get functions that describe some complex cycles.

You need to read some history. You appear very stuck in a timeframe you think is special probably because you live in it.

Of course humans did those trig functions. And who programs the computers? A wheat crop?

[Millennial_Messiah]

What? The Greeks invented these triangle side ratios and then found out they followed cyclical/now called wave patterns? Computers do this much faster and much more accurately. As humans started observing phenomena over and over again they found that trig functions described them very well. Trig was invented for play and building problems then we found it useful in other ways later.

Computers basically made the hand calculations much faster.. Trig is basically how the ratio of the sides of a triangle changes based on angle changes. As you go from zero to 90 degrees the ratios change unevenly. If you use negative numbers as well you find you get functions that describe some complex cycles.

You need to read some history. You appear very stuck in a timeframe you think is special probably because you live in it.

Of course humans did those trig functions. And who programs the computers? A wheat crop?

Trig by hand is very, very difficult. That whole brain-cell-scorching stuff with radians and degrees and half angle formula double angle formula and trig proofs, it has no business being part of a required course to graduate high school... optional, okay? But not required.


I can do trig up to Pythagorean's theorem... that's all.

[pgardn]

Trig by hand is very, very difficult. That whole brain-cell-scorching stuff with radians and degrees and half angle formula double angle formula and trig proofs, it has no business being part of a required course to graduate high school... optional, okay? But not required.


I can do trig up to Pythagorean's theorem... that's all.

Oh.

I did not know we are talking about required to graduate high school.
You brought that in.
You said HUMANS cant do these things.

If you have a 3,4,5 right triangle you are telling me you cant divide 3 by 5 or 4 by 5? Thats sine or cosine of whatever angle you have other than the 90 degree angle. You dont even need the angle. Its a ratio of sides. All sin cos tan mean is take a ratio of two sides of a right triangle. When the Greeks kept drawing these things without knowing the exact angle, they could still make a ratio by measuring the sides using the radius of a circle being the hypotenuse. And one of the sides being equal to the hypotenuse when you got to pi/2, pi, 3/2 pi and 2 pi. The Greeks noticed these numbers repeated a pattern and made many tables which became really good. Before we had calculators, kids in school used tables that got close enough.

The degree thing is totally made up. It could be 100 degrees, 200 degrees, 300 degrees, 400 degrees. Its just that 360 has by common agreement to be the number of degrees of a circle. Its from navigation I think and has no real meaning, it just agreed upon for communication. Radians have real meaning in reference to a circle.

All math ideas can get very difficult if you play with it and do enough "what if I do this now". Algebra CAN become a total mess. Very difficult. The greeks played brain games with circles and triangles. It was fun for some of them. They apparently really liked to play around with geometry and some of it became of practical use of course. People get bored with everything being a red ball. They want green pyramids, and blue squares. And then mix the colors and shapes up. Yeah?

[pgardn]

So suppose you have a very long cylinder of some kind of flexible metal (say 100'). One one end is Point A and on the other is Point B. If you put force on Point A to roll it forward, then Point B also rolls forward but not instantaneously.
Now, what happens if you shorten the cylinder and use a less flexible metal. Say it's just a 4' cylinder of steel with Point A and Point B. And again, you put force on Point A to roll forward. Visually, it appears that Point B moves in conjunction with Point A. But in reality, does it really lag by some very small amount of time?

This kind of thing has a real name btw I found out.

Torsion.
Torsion bars "cylinders" are used in a lot of different devices. Its those bars that make the trunk of older cars so easy to push up and down. They would be too heavy without torsion or some sort of spring. Kind of like garage doors use to be in old houses without motors (garage door openers). They still "help" the motors lift the garage doors. You found a really big subject. disclosure: I am not an engineer. So there is that.

[SpursforSix]

10715653[/URL]]This kind of thing has a real name btw I found out.

Torsion.
Torsion bars "cylinders" are used in a lot of different devices. Its those bars that make the trunk of older cars so easy to push up and down. They would be too heavy without torsion or some sort of spring. Kind of like garage doors use to be in old houses without motors (garage door openers). They still "help" the motors lift the garage doors. You found a really big subject. disclosure: I am not an engineer. So there is that.

Honestly, this is getting over my head pretty fast. I’m not going to spend the time looking at anything that has a anything but simple equation. The thing I like about simple physics ( and geometry for that matter) is that it logically makes sense to me. In hindsight, I wish I would have taken more science and math classes. But it’s all stuff I didn’t really appreciate until I was older.

Funny story though. I went to Catholic high school and we had a pretty awesome theology teacher. He actually got fired for exposing us to Buddhism and alternate philosophies/religions. Long story short, for some reason, he became our physics teacher one year. He was great at explaining it. After he got fired, he got a masters and doctorate in physics because he liked it so much. He still teaches high school and has won a couple of “Teacher of the Year” awards and like that. He could be making way more in a college setting but wants to stimulate younger minds. One of those teachers that you’re lucky to have.

[pgardn]

Honestly, this is getting over my head pretty fast. I’m not going to spend the time looking at anything that has a anything but simple equation. The thing I like about simple physics ( and geometry for that matter) is that it logically makes sense to me. In hindsight, I wish I would have taken more science and math classes. But it’s all stuff I didn’t really appreciate until I was older.

Funny story though. I went to Catholic high school and we had a pretty awesome theology teacher. He actually got fired for exposing us to Buddhism and alternate philosophies/religions. Long story short, for some reason, he became our physics teacher one year. He was great at explaining it. After he got fired, he got a masters and doctorate in physics because he liked it so much. He still teaches high school and has won a couple of “Teacher of the Year” awards and like that. He could be making way more in a college setting but wants to stimulate younger minds. One of those teachers that you’re lucky to have.

You had a cool question.

And it blossomed for me personally.
I did not major in physics, I dont work with physics, I just love the problems and the ideas.
It is the most refreshing science subject imo as it starts out with very simple suppositions and just gets bigger.
You dont have to deal with near as many variables like chemistry and biology have. Which is why people think it is difficult, because its so simple we can describe it with math. But absolutely the math gets difficult.

You asked a neat question. I blabbered on. Im still thinking about waves moving back and forth through the cylinder endlessly if bond "stretching" releases zero energy.

And I wish I had your teacher.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Oh.

I did not know we are talking about required to graduate high school.
You brought that in.
You said HUMANS cant do these things.

If you have a 3,4,5 right triangle you are telling me you cant divide 3 by 5 or 4 by 5? Thats sine or cosine of whatever angle you have other than the 90 degree angle. You dont even need the angle. Its a ratio of sides. All sin cos tan mean is take a ratio of two sides of a right triangle. When the Greeks kept drawing these things without knowing the exact angle, they could still make a ratio by measuring the sides using the radius of a circle being the hypotenuse. And one of the sides being equal to the hypotenuse when you got to pi/2, pi, 3/2 pi and 2 pi. The Greeks noticed these numbers repeated a pattern and made many tables which became really good. Before we had calculators, kids in school used tables that got close enough.

The degree thing is totally made up. It could be 100 degrees, 200 degrees, 300 degrees, 400 degrees. Its just that 360 has by common agreement to be the number of degrees of a circle. Its from navigation I think and has no real meaning, it just agreed upon for communication. Radians have real meaning in reference to a circle.

All math ideas can get very difficult if you play with it and do enough "what if I do this now". Algebra CAN become a total mess. Very difficult. The greeks played brain games with circles and triangles. It was fun for some of them. They apparently really liked to play around with geometry and some of it became of practical use of course. People get bored with everything being a red ball. They want green pyramids, and blue squares. And then mix the colors and shapes up. Yeah?

the sine / cosine / tangent / secant / cosecant / cotangent stuff is like a bad high school ex girlfriend experience that I never want brought up again. Like, worst sex of my life bad. Thank you.

[SpursforSix]

10715738[/URL]]You had a cool question.

And it blossomed for me personally.
I did not major in physics, I dont work with physics, I just love the problems and the ideas.
It is the most refreshing science subject imo as it starts out with very simple suppositions and just gets bigger.
You dont have to deal with near as many variables like chemistry and biology have. Which is why people think it is difficult, because its so simple we can describe it with math. But absolutely the math gets difficult.

You asked a neat question. I blabbered on. Im still thinking about waves moving back and forth through the cylinder endlessly if bond "stretching" releases zero energy.

And I wish I had your teacher.

I think the first thing that really impacted me from that teacher was his explaining that the force of gravity was not impacted by other forces. So if you shot a gun (on a perfectly perpendicular to the ground), the bullet would hit the ground at same as a dropped bullet. There was an experiment to prove it but it was kind of sloppy. Anyway, those kinds of little things really made it interesting to me. Also random like two points on a clock hand. They may have the same rpm’s but depending on the radius, one point may be moving at several times the speed. It’s just kind of cool to me when you apply that to a baseball pitcher or golf player.
It

[pgardn]

the sine / cosine / tangent / secant / cosecant / cotangent stuff is like a bad high school ex girlfriend experience that I never want brought up again. Like, worst sex of my life bad. Thank you.

I agree those names look very weird in math when you are used to seeing nice algebra symbols or nice simple geometry stuff that makes sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKbDnsZUV2I

stop at 25 seconds. This makes sense to me because I understand that the y part of the graph is just a ratio. And the x part of the graph is the changing angle or position on the circle (radians) and it makes a wave. And the wave actually describes some physical phenomena like a spring going back and forth constantly. Thats it. A math equation that fits a physical pattern in "real life"

I just learned they were ratios and the rest kind of stuck when I saw the unit circle with a radius and a triangle as a part of it. When you keep making triangles and go around in a circle continuously it creates a table of numbers (ratios), that when graphed, make a wave pattern. The play that mathematicians do with all the trig iden ies and such is just like an artist who is tired of drawing the same old thing. I see they love what they are doing, they are making music that the real artists love and leave the rest of us saying wtf was that... I guess its like me trying to listen to jazz. Its so unstructured and scattered... it just bugs the out of me.

Except I heard one of my Dad's old songs that had a group named Steely Dan and was told it was kind of jazzish and I did like it. Maybe if I knew music better I could appreciate jazz. But, I cant. Artists who are really good at something other people enjoy can go off kilter and just get bored and make an album they like but their fans hate, because the fans like the original recipe. So they go back to the original recipe and people say the are selling out and such. I would just quit and just play stuff I liked and not worry if other people liked it. Assuming I was talented and rich which fortunately I am not. I appreciate the struggle of being common and not noticed. But if I find someone who likes something I do, I like to know why and how much they like it.

So F trig... I guess.
Its all good.

[pgardn]

I think the first thing that really impacted me from that teacher was his explaining that the force of gravity was not impacted by other forces. So if you shot a gun (on a perfectly perpendicular to the ground), the bullet would hit the ground at same as a dropped bullet. There was an experiment to prove it but it was kind of sloppy. Anyway, those kinds of little things really made it interesting to me. Also random like two points on a clock hand. They may have the same rpm’s but depending on the radius, one point may be moving at several times the speed. It’s just kind of cool to me when you apply that to a baseball pitcher or golf player.
It

yes thats cool. The clock thing is as well.

So I would then think so if you are the driver of a car and make a left hand turn you are actually moving slower than the passenger sitting to your right. And that is cool. Some people want to hide beneath the covers and shiver when they learn this. I like it. I want things to be bigger than me. Outside of my reach but I can occasionally have a little present I can understand. Or think about. The space stuff and the universe having nothing beyond it from a science point of view is actually comforting. Being God or a God, would, if anything like that exists, be totally terrifying. imho in my human opinion.

[Millennial_Messiah]

I agree those names look very weird in math when you are used to seeing nice algebra symbols or nice simple geometry stuff that makes sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKbDnsZUV2I

stop at 25 seconds. This makes sense to me because I understand that the y part of the graph is just a ratio. And the x part of the graph is the changing angle or position on the circle (radians) and it makes a wave. And the wave actually describes some physical phenomena like a spring going back and forth constantly. Thats it. A math equation that fits a physical pattern in "real life"

I just learned they were ratios and the rest kind of stuck when I saw the unit circle with a radius and a triangle as a part of it. When you keep making triangles and go around in a circle continuously it creates a table of numbers (ratios), that when graphed, make a wave pattern. The play that mathematicians do with all the trig iden ies and such is just like an artist who is tired of drawing the same old thing. I see they love what they are doing, they are making music that the real artists love and leave the rest of us saying wtf was that... I guess its like me trying to listen to jazz. Its so unstructured and scattered... it just bugs the out of me.

Except I heard one of my Dad's old songs that had a group named Steely Dan and was told it was kind of jazzish and I did like it. Maybe if I knew music better I could appreciate jazz. But, I cant. Artists who are really good at something other people enjoy can go off kilter and just get bored and make an album they like but their fans hate, because the fans like the original recipe. So they go back to the original recipe and people say the are selling out and such. I would just quit and just play stuff I liked and not worry if other people liked it. Assuming I was talented and rich which fortunately I am not. I appreciate the struggle of being common and not noticed. But if I find someone who likes something I do, I like to know why and how much they like it.

So F trig... I guess.
Its all good.

You're smarter at that than me, no doubt. I bet I'm smarter than you at statistics, data science, hypothesis testing, z-, t- and p-values, probability k-means, neural nets/decision trees/markov models, time series, regression, et al. Just different skillset for different person. Appreciate your read though.

[pgardn]

You're smarter at that than me, no doubt. I bet I'm smarter than you at statistics, data science, hypothesis testing, z-, t- and p-values, probability k-means, neural nets/decision trees/markov models, time series, regression, et al. Just different skillset for different person. Appreciate your read though.

Im not smart, I’m curious.

I love stats. There is a very good read on how the Chi square method was created.
And from the chi method a bunch of modern stats arose. Imo it makes perfect sense and is beautiful. Then comes the decision on how accurate you wish to be which is sometimes arbitrary depending on what you are trying to accomplish.

Stats is not airyfairy like some math gets. It’s straightforward and incredibly useful. It’s absolutely essential with the huge amount of data that is gathered.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Im not smart, I’m curious.

I love stats. There is a very good read on how the Chi square method was created.
And from the chi method a bunch of modern stats arose. Imo it makes perfect sense and is beautiful. Then comes the decision on how accurate you wish to be which is sometimes arbitrary depending on what you are trying to accomplish.

Stats is not airyfairy like some math gets. It’s straightforward and incredibly useful. It’s absolutely essential with the huge amount of data that is gathered.