If you still think we don’t need a PG

[itzsoweezee]

The reason Lively looked so good is that he has elite playmakers practically shoveling east baskets to him. Wemby, on the other hand, has to do everything himself. Imagine him with supporting players that actually seek to take advantage of his mismatches. The guy had Kyrie matching up on him in transition and they didn’t get him the ball.

[spurraider21]

as someone who has always been a heavy skeptic of the Sochan as PG thing, and noting just how much better we were, particularly in the 2nd half, with Tre out there running the show... i think its premature to panic after 1 game.

i do think dallas is one of the uniquely bad matchups for sochan, since Doncic basically toast anybody and everybody, which negates any potential defensive impact sochan would otherwise have in the tall-ball lineup

the frustration for me is we saw how poorly wemby's teammates in france would get him set up for good looks, and seeing shades of that in an nba game is pretty jarring

[ginobilized]

I see us lacking an elite passer. Doesn't have to be a point guard, necessarily.
Court vision and playmaking skills are lacking with this squad. Elite passers are among the rarest players. It will take a while to find one.
Also, it will take a few games for the players to get a clue as to how to integrate Wemby more. They will figure it out to the best of their abilities, but, it might take 10 or more games.

[FutureMan]

This season is going to be tough to watch at times. Wemby will be open and certain players won’t connect to him because they lack that ability/vision. Sure, it could be something they learn but the reason why I’ve been so vocal about getting a point guard is because time may be limited with Wemby. We may not have him for as long as we had Duncan. Conservatively, let’s say he plays 10 seasons. That means every season is 10% of his career and I think it’s foolish waiting around to see if Jeremy Sochan can learn how to be a point guard. They should give it 2-3 months max and if it doesn’t work then it’s time to move on.

[rascal]

Collins is weak defensively. Dallas was easily scoring in the paint.

Lively was too athletic for Collins. Collins can't jump.

[TD 21]

Collins is weak defensively. Dallas was easily scoring in the paint.

Lively was too athletic for Collins. Collins can't jump.

Somehow, Collins was among the league leaders in defensive field goal % within' 3 feet of the rim last season.

Still, between his lack of hops and length, he seems destined to lead the league in being posterized.

[jesterbobman]

We do need a starting PG. We don't need one now.

The curse of rebuilding too quickly with people who are / look like they will be generational talents is investing too quickly to get good, using assets in a way that doesn't definitely work, and taking championship upside off the table. Mavs with Luka, Pelicans with AD, Early Cavs with LeBron (03 - 10)...

The Spurs clearly know they'll need more players, and that'll come in time, with the ton of incoming draft picks, and free agency. It could be that Sochan evolves (I doubt it, but could happen), and he's good enough in a committee of initiators system. It could be a draft pick this year (Collier, Castle, etc). Tre's off the bounce shooting could get good enough that he's an option. With a ton of money and other positions set, we could attract a PG from another team / trade for one.

Something will develop, but hoping it's an instantaneous change this year is silly. 30 - 35 wins, an average differential of -2 or -3 (rather than the -10 of last year) would be a tremendous step forward.

[benefactor]

I can tell you what has worked since the dawn of the NBA and in every era. From Russell to Wilt to Walton and KAJ to Magic and Moses and Bird and Mike and Duncan and Shaq and Lebron and Steph and now Giannis and Joker. Get the ball to your best player down the stretch. Run actual plays for him. Put them in positions to dominate and don't have 5 role players outshoot your only star player. And no it wasn't all because he was in foul trouble. There were plenty of times we could've gotten him the ball and we chose not to or just flat out couldn't.

[benefactor]

But honestly, I think they will figure that out over time. Pop knows how important Wemby is and he isn't going to let second tier hero ballers like Keldon get in the way forever. I feel confident adjustments will be made.

[benefactor]

The more I think of Keldon the more I wonder if he might be traded eventually. He's just a bad fit next to Wemby. He's a pure scorer and our new franchise player is one too. I simply don't trust him to give the ball to the player that is better than him when it matters.

[scott]

as someone who has always been a heavy skeptic of the Sochan as PG thing, and noting just how much better we were, particularly in the 2nd half, with Tre out there running the show... i think its premature to panic after 1 game.

i do think dallas is one of the uniquely bad matchups for sochan, since Doncic basically toast anybody and everybody, which negates any potential defensive impact sochan would otherwise have in the tall-ball lineup

the frustration for me is we saw how poorly wemby's teammates in france would get him set up for good looks, and seeing shades of that in an nba game is pretty jarring

Agree with this 100%. Yes, Wemby being in foul trouble altered the game as he spent good stretches that he otherwise wouldn't have on the bench. (Which makes me curious how many minutes he would have played if not for the fouls).

But he wasn't on the bench at the time that is so alarming: in the clutch, after demonstrating that he was hot. Did he even touch the ball once after Tre was subbed for Sochan? This wasn't all Sochan's fault though, as some of that blame also goes to Keldon, what the F was he doing?

Even if this year is all about development and seeing what works, and not winning, I would think this would still involve Wemby in the clutch. In the SL game and again last night Wemby has shown a penchant for showing up in clutch time... we need to foster that, not give Keldon more opportunities to do... whatever the he was trying to do. And if the ball is not in Wemby's hands, I would at least think it would be in Devin's.

The good news: this is all fixable. However, even if development is the top priority this year, Wemby's development should come first and there is a case to be made that Wemby's development would be better off with Tre at the point than with Sochan.

[spurraider21]

Somehow, Collins was among the league leaders in defensive field goal % within' 3 feet of the rim last season.

Still, between his lack of hops and length, he seems destined to lead the league in being posterized.

ive seen that stat thrown around as well, i think exstatic has brought it up at least once

his D RPM was negative (-1.10). his D BPM was 0.3, and he had exactly 1 defensive win share all of last season

i think he's a solid effort guy on defense, isnt afraid of going up strong, etc. the results are whatever. i dont think he's a massive liability but he's not somebody i'd consider a plus rim protector. bassey is probably a better shotblocker, but since he has less size, he has to leave his feet earlier to meet the shot, which sometimes has him jumping prematurely

[scott]

Somehow, Collins was among the league leaders in defensive field goal % within' 3 feet of the rim last season.

Still, between his lack of hops and length, he seems destined to lead the league in being posterized.

Poster dunks are a higher degree of difficulty and carry a lower FG % maybe?

[Mugen]

The more I think of Keldon the more I wonder if he might be traded eventually. He's just a bad fit next to Wemby. He's a pure scorer and our new franchise player is one too. I simply don't trust him to give the ball to the player that is better than him when it matters.

He might still end up being traded and the sample size is super small but I'm honestly more bullish now on Keldon's long term fit on the roster after what I've seen in preseason + game 1. But I think it'll depend on a few things:

- Keldon eventually accepting coming off the bench as a sparkplug
-Wemby will eventually have to finish games as a 5. The best crunch time lineup this team can field will be: Tre/Vassell/Keldon/Sochan/Wemby, and I think Wemby will have to accept that that'll mean him having to focus on rebounding and primary (not help side) rim protection when called upon.

[scott]

To be fair to Keldon and Jeremy, the NBA admits it missed two fouls (one on Keldon and one on Jeremy) on the pivotal sequence of the game.

Full last 2-minute report: https://official.nba.com/l2m/L2MRepo...eId=0022300073

[Obstructed_View]

Jeremy got that rebound and held it out there to be stolen. It may have been a foul but you give the other guy credit for the initiative IMO.

[TDMVPDPOY]

wemba needs touches when his in position, fkn monkeys on this team are ignoring him for no apparent reason...

get a pass first pg...

like i said during the duncan era, i rather watch duncan goto work on every possession then watch some ballhog scoring pg

[weebo]

this team needs a couple of vets...too many young bucks trying to get their name out there

[spurraider21]

To be fair to Keldon and Jeremy, the NBA admits it missed two fouls (one on Keldon and one on Jeremy) on the pivotal sequence of the game.

Full last 2-minute report: https://official.nba.com/l2m/L2MRepo...eId=0022300073

thats on the same possession as the missed traveling call on zollins, so all moot

[LakerHater]

Dnt necessarily need a PG but someone who's natural ability is to pass the ball.
Sochan & Keldon missed plenty opportunities to get wemby the ball!

[Spurs Homer]

Lillard with a 37? Point debut at milwaukee…

ya think Giannis appreciates the help?

[Obstructed_View]

Lillard with a 37? Point debut at milwaukee…

ya think Giannis appreciates the help?

Probably. Giannis was -13 in a one point win.

But Lillard had one fewer assist than Sochan did. So unless your point is that you want Jeremy to shoot it 20 times, Dame is a poor example.

[exstatic]

I can tell you what has worked since the dawn of the NBA and in every era. From Russell to Wilt to Walton and KAJ to Magic and Moses and Bird and Mike and Duncan and Shaq and Lebron and Steph and now Giannis and Joker. Get the ball to your best player down the stretch. Run actual plays for him. Put them in positions to dominate and don't have 5 role players outshoot your only star player. And no it wasn't all because he was in foul trouble. There were plenty of times we could've gotten him the ball and we chose not to or just flat out couldn't.

The relevant examples of the post modern NBA are Giannis and Jokic. Neither of them were fed the ball as a rookie, and Jokic didn’t even start, coming off the bench behind Nurkic.

[Spurs Homer]

Probably. Giannis was -13 in a one point win.

But Lillard had one fewer assist than Sochan did. So unless your point is that you want Jeremy to shoot it 20 times, Dame is a poor example.

not if you watched the game…and it really doesnt have to be lillard- but lillard was available all off season and the spurs had the most and best assets- but the re ed “wemby” wont be ready for 3-4 years appears to have won the day

if you watched the game, giannis had more touches than anyone until the 4th qtr and he was in need of help and lillard re-entered the game and provided giannis all the help he needed

im ok with no lillard and the point is moot anyways- but it would behoove the spurs to at least be open when opportunities arise in the near future…imo anyway

[sfernald]

It’s nice to see new voices on this thread stand up against the same voices on here with their stale “laboratory” and “development” arguments.

These are the following players the spurs should put on the block for any vets who are better fits with Wemby:

keldon
collins
vassell
sochan
tre
osman

The other players on the team aren’t really worth mentioning because their value is so low. They can be trade filler if necessary.

Hopefully the team manages to work a trade for their #2 or #3 before the deadline this season. The clock is ticking before Wemby becomes disgruntled and starts eyeing greener grass. Pop looks very old. I’m not sure he’s up for this. They need to bring in an executive like Brad Stevens who can build a team around his star player.

The selfish hero ball I watched was exactly what a 20 win team full of losers does.