3-and-D forwards watch

[LeBowen]

you literally quoted me as saying "It REALLY comes down to making his shots... and ACTUALLY TAKING THEM." (IE. taking more threes)

Did I misread what you wrote?
He's at 29% on 2.5 attempts which doesn't seem bad, but all of those are "alone in the gym" attempts.
He'll never get to "we have to close out this guy hard" territory, but we need those players on the wings.

[Mnky]

with respect to first round picks, we dont have any "extra" picks left other than #14 this year. we own 1 first round pick every year going forward. 2026, 2028, 2030, and 2031 have swap rights built in, so theyre better than typical first round picks. 2027 we have no control over as thats the hawks natrual pick. and then 2029 is our one natural pick without protections

The spurs are getting expensive very fast. Three top 5 picks is expensive. They can't keep all of those 1st and 2nds business wise, which is more of what I learn towards with the 'extra' moniker. Which may not have been the most accurate identifier as you point out.

They traded a lottery pick last year for this very reason though. You only have so many spots on the team and the starting lineup for the next half a decade may be set going into 2027. We've seen how good/not good the value can be for those mid level picks. Most of the time they're 50/50 shot of being a role player. Not saying they're not valuable, but that's why I think they're very moveable. Granted you miss the chance of hitting on a star, but I doubt anyone will miss Branham, malachi, or even a vassell/sochan for a laurri.

Also, big fan of PJ washington. Think that'd be a great pickup if he doesn't go for a big contract, which isn't likely these days.

[Mnky]

I'd just rather split the money on 2 players who earn half of what Lauri earns. Gives you more flexibility and your team is less top heavy. If you compare Lauri's numbers to John Collins:

Lauri Markkanen 19 PPG, 5.9 REB, 1.5 AST, 0.7 STL , 0.4 BLK, 34.6 % from 3 on 8.5 attempts - 42 million with the salary going up

John Collins 19 PPG, 8.2 RB, 2 AST, 1 STL, 1 BLK shooting 40% from 3 on 3.7 attempts - 26.5 million with the salary likely going down slightly

and don't get me started on Ainge wanting like 2-4 first round picks for Lauri, while Collins would cost a couple of second rounders

I'm also big on Collins. I think his value is super high as a do what the team needs guy. Even playing on a losing team, he competed night in and out. He demanded the Max last time. Do you really think he's not going to try to get as much as he can on his next contract as well? I honestly think he might garner in the same area as Laurri. If that's the case Laurri being able to produce while everyone knows he's the guy is much more valuable to me than Collins as a background guy. If we could get Collins for a contract near the same, I'd be all in on that. I just don't see his team going for that.

Collins said he's cool with staying with the Jazz long term if they can work something out, but at the end of the day it's a business. I feel like he's going to go for the most he can get and luckily there isn't a lot of teams that can offer that, but he is a very wanted archetype.

And yea, Ainge is the biggest red flag of any of this in my eyes. He just so happens to have some very useful archetypes on his team, and I'm sure he knows it.

[spurraider21]

The spurs are getting expensive very fast. Three top 5 picks is expensive. They can't keep all of those 1st and 2nds business wise, which is more of what I learn towards with the 'extra' moniker. Which may not have been the most accurate identifier as you point out.

They traded a lottery pick last year for this very reason though. You only have so many spots on the team and the starting lineup for the next half a decade may be set going into 2027. We've seen how good/not good the value can be for those mid level picks. Most of the time they're 50/50 shot of being a role player. Not saying they're not valuable, but that's why I think they're very moveable. Granted you miss the chance of hitting on a star, but I doubt anyone will miss Branham, malachi, or even a vassell/sochan for a laurri.

Also, big fan of PJ washington. Think that'd be a great pickup if he doesn't go for a big contract, which isn't likely these days.

well our first round picks arent likely to continue being top 5-10 picks. the hawks picks dont seem to have the same upside we were once hoping for. you say we cant keep those picks, but rookie scale role players are going to be cheaper than free agents. if anything we need the picks to make sure we can have a steady stream of affordable talent, even if they don't end up re-signing here. think Kyle Anderson who gave us some solid play but didnt re-up with us.

the spurs will only find themselves in trouble if they unnecessarily extend or re-sign guys. like if they give sochan a big extension this summer

[stnick2261]

Did I misread what you wrote?

Yes,

In other words, I said he needs to make his shots (increase his %) and actually take them (increase his attempts)... in order to become a legit outside threat and increase spacing.

I still have hope that he can do that if he works hard in the off-season. But if he starts the year being too hesitant to shoot, then I'd be at the point of getting rid of him.

[RC_Drunkford]

luckily there isn't a lot of teams that can offer that

that is exactly why I think he can be had for likely the same salary he earns now

[Mnky]

well our first round picks arent likely to continue being top 5-10 picks. the hawks picks dont seem to have the same upside we were once hoping for. you say we cant keep those picks, but rookie scale role players are going to be cheaper than free agents. if anything we need the picks to make sure we can have a steady stream of affordable talent, even if they don't end up re-signing here. think Kyle Anderson who gave us some solid play but didnt re-up with us.

the spurs will only find themselves in trouble if they unnecessarily extend or re-sign guys. like if they give sochan a big extension this summer

Playoff rotations hardly break 8 true guys these days. You have a couple stop gap guys here and there. Finding veterans(who I would much rather have in those spots) won't be as difficult once your starting five is set. They hold value, like I said, with keeping a healthy balance sheet as much as anything but they're also wasted if there isn't an attempt to become a champion in that process. We likely let go of 2-4 of our 1st round picks within a couple years. So will other teams. Those players have to play somewhere.

Celtics got one ring out of all their stowed picks. Thunder are still working on their first. There isn't a set in stone approach to winning outside of giving your star the right starting five around them. If I can get a foundation piece ala Laurri/collins that fit the mold for Wemby, I have no qualms with letting a couple 1st go at all.

[Bruno]

Hachimura isn't that bad in that role. Not worth trading something like a first round pick for him but he could be useful if you get him for cheap.

[mo7888]

Hachimura isn't that bad in that role. Not worth trading something like a first round pick for him but he could be useful if you get him for cheap.

Good call there...

[RC_Drunkford]

PJ Washington, Hachimura and John Collins (if he opts in) are all in their last contract year this season. So they would be free agents in 2026 which is when we have a ton of cap room. They will probably be moved at the deadline by their teams, if not earlier. We absolutely need to get one of them without giving up much or might even be able to sign one in the 2026 offseason.

[hoopdreams11]

Larry Nance jr

[Guru of Nothing]

What are people's opinion's on Jonathan Isaac, Magic? I'm not too familiar with his game. All I know is he has the requisite size and maybe Orlando views Vassell as a partial solution to the Magic shooting woes. If there are deficiencies in his game, maybe getting off Vassell's contract makes it more palatable. He has 4 yrs/$60M remaining, so they'd have to pad the offer with additional salary.

I'm not really pining for this, but curious if there is a low-friction deal to pursue with Orlando.

Edit: Not a 3 and D, so maybe wrong thread.

[TD 21]

Despite the obsession with Collins, an archetype they've long avoided, my sense is, unless they plan to make a (much needed) consolidation trade, they'll target a backup C more so than forwards.

Unfortunately, Vassell probably will be their 3 and D forward "acquisition", since that's the role he'll have to be (mis)cast in on this imbalanced roster.

[Uriel]

What about Carter Bryant?

[LeBowen]

What are people's opinion's on Jonathan Isaac, Magic? I'm not too familiar with his game. All I know is he has the requisite size and maybe Orlando views Vassell as a partial solution to the Magic shooting woes. If there are deficiencies in his game, maybe getting off Vassell's contract makes it more palatable. He has 4 yrs/$60M remaining, so they'd have to pad the offer with additional salary.

I'm not really pining for this, but curious if there is a low-friction deal to pursue with Orlando.

Edit: Not a 3 and D, so maybe wrong thread.

Before injuries ruined him, he was on his way to becoming the best defender in the league and I'm not over-exaggerating. Ridiculous upside.
He can't play heavy minutes anymore and he lost his athleticism. Can't shoot.
Is also off the deep end, Kyrie level conspiracy theorist.

[twodeep]

How about an in between one could we unload Vassel for Wiggins at SF salaries roughly the same but 5 years vs 3 years. The Heat are trying to redo their roster so a 30y old player for a 24y old player

[scott]

How about an in between one could we unload Vassel for Wiggins at SF salaries roughly the same but 5 years vs 3 years. The Heat are trying to redo their roster so a 30y old player for a 24y old player

Would.

[Dverde]

Bobby Portis has a player option. I doubt he wants to go back to the Bucks with no Giannis. I figured he was older but he is only 30.

[vy65]

The sad reality is that I don't see MATFO moving off of The Power of Friendship (the power of the lock-bracelets is too strong). I think they view Keldon as some kind of strong locker room glue guy, Vassell as their 3/D guy of the future, and Sochan as a premier defender swiss army knife. To be clear, I don't agree with any of those assessments, but this is in line with the organization's prioritization of continuity and continual, internal development (see Johnson, Mitch). I think at most we'll see Branham or Blake (but not likely both) gone and maybe they add a vet/resign CP3.

But in reality, I think the lineup we see for Game 1 is Fox/Castle/DV/HB(or Sochan)/Wemby with Keldon being the first guy off the bench.

To be even more clear, I hope to god I'm wrong about all of this, but I don't see them making more than just incremental changes (incremental here meaning: Harper and Mitch. I would be shocked if they actually used 14)

[Arguendo]

Laurri may still be an option with those extra picks we have. At some point, they're going to have to make a decision on tanking or building and if they continue truly tanking, Laurri may be had for picks. He's the same age frame as fox and I think would fit great with the fox-harper-castle-Wemby line up. Run everyone into Laurri and Wemby and the defense will be just fine with a couple smaller guys.

No interest in Lauri unless its a straight salary dump. He's good but no where near Max good when he plays, which is less than 70% of the time, and he's due almost $200M over the next 4 yrs. He will be a Levine-esque salary dumb soon. He also doesn't rebound.

If you want a Unicorn that plays 70% of the time and is actually better at everything than Lauri, Porzingis is likely to be available, only 2-years older, actually has PO experience, and is only due $31M.
No to Lauri. No where near a Max guy, that matters with aprons.

[scott]

The sad reality is that I don't see MATFO moving off of The Power of Friendship (the power of the lock-bracelets is too strong). I think they view Keldon as some kind of strong locker room glue guy, Vassell as their 3/D guy of the future, and Sochan as a premier defender swiss army knife. To be clear, I don't agree with any of those assessments, but this is in line with the organization's prioritization of continuity and continual, internal development (see Johnson, Mitch). I think at most we'll see Branham or Blake (but not likely both) gone and maybe they add a vet/resign CP3.

But in reality, I think the lineup we see for Game 1 is Fox/Castle/DV/HB(or Sochan)/Wemby with Keldon being the first guy off the bench.

To be even more clear, I hope to god I'm wrong about all of this, but I don't see them making more than just incremental changes (incremental here meaning: Harper and Mitch. I would be shocked if they actually used 14)

Baba, this is the kind of sobering dose of reality I do not need right now. Thank you.

[scott]

No interest in Lauri unless its a straight salary dump. He's good but no where near Max good when he plays, which is less than 70% of the time, and he's due almost $200M over the next 4 yrs. He will be a Levine-esque salary dumb soon. He also doesn't rebound.

If you want a Unicorn that plays 70% of the time and is actually better at everything than Lauri, Porzingis is likely to be available, only 2-years older, actually has PO experience, and is only due $31M.
No to Lauri. No where near a Max guy, that matters with aprons.

Lauri rates 85th percentile in OREB Quality and 71st percentile in DREB quality.

There is plenty to criticize about Lauri... but rebounding actually ain't one of them.

[itzsoweezee]

PJ Washington has to be gettable now. I’m skeptical that Dallas trades with us, though

[exstatic]

I'm also big on Collins. I think his value is super high as a do what the team needs guy. Even playing on a losing team, he competed night in and out. He demanded the Max last time. Do you really think he's not going to try to get as much as he can on his next contract as well? I honestly think he might garner in the same area as Laurri. If that's the case Laurri being able to produce while everyone knows he's the guy is much more valuable to me than Collins as a background guy. If we could get Collins for a contract near the same, I'd be all in on that. I just don't see his team going for that.

Collins said he's cool with staying with the Jazz long term if they can work something out, but at the end of the day it's a business. I feel like he's going to go for the most he can get and luckily there isn't a lot of teams that can offer that, but he is a very wanted archetype.

And yea, Ainge is the biggest red flag of any of this in my eyes. He just so happens to have some very useful archetypes on his team, and I'm sure he knows it.

What Collins wants isn’t necessarily what the market has available. If you look at cap money available, he probably shouldn’t opt out, as only the Nets have a wad of cash. They have no need for a player like him. Unless hie is resigned to taking MLE money, he’s probably staying put.

[Guru of Nothing]

If we draft Harper I view CP3 as a nearly essential piece of next season's roster just for the mentorship alone. I can see an ESPN narrative in the future where we reflect on CP3's role developing the greatest backcourt of all time. He can only make Harper better. Would be an invaluable asset for the launch of Mitch's head coaching career too.

And let's be real, if CP3 wants to return to chase a ring for the next two years (at a 15 min/game pace, maybe 50 games a year) and he doesn't make money an obstacle, could the front office possibly say no? ...assuming 2024/25 level of play.