Argentina will be ready for World Cup, says Pekerman

[Phenomanul]

I already answered to you why. They had their chance when they played in the Argentinian League, and they weren't something spectacular to deserve a call-up to the national team. Gaitán played in Boca and Marioni in Independiente and their performances weren't enough to deserve a spot in the Argentinian team: Gaitán was released by Boca after a while, and Marioni was sold to a relegation battler team in Spain. When they played in Europe (Gaitán in Villareal, Marioni in Tenerife) they didn't exactly set the Spanish League on fire.

Now they are playing in a League that is of lesser quality than Argentina, and can't be even compared to the Spanish, so they won't be called up. The truth is that most Argentinians that move to Mexico aren't stars here, they are just good role players and nothing else, with the only possible exception of Cesar Delgado, but he isn't a fixture in the Argentina National Team either.



Still, the better Argentinian and Brazilian players are scattered in European teams. Both countries are exporters, they constantly sell players to the top European leagues, and always produce new talent to replace those who were sold. If you had to make a list out of Argentinian fowards, Marioni would hardly make it into the Top 20 (only based on current form), and that's for four or five spots for the World Cup squad. Gaitán may have a sweet touch and be called "El Divino" in Mexico, but he is nowhere near Riquelme, Aimar or Messi. He could fight for a spot with D'Alessandro or Veron, but only based on the poor form of those two, if they gain back their form, Gaitan has nothing to do near the National Team.

FIFA World Club Championships you say? Then why the is Costa Rica's Deportivo Saprissa getting their asses beaten by Liverpool if the Mexican teams are better? Brazilian and Argentinian teams have beaten European clubs before, so I credit them.

By the way, the South American Cup stinks, so far it's a tournament made only for money without any prestige (many teams qualify based on how good their TV ratings are, not how good on the pitch they were last season). The only real prestigious compe tion is the Libertadores.

Good points....

Saprissa is playing because the U.S. Referee tandem that called the game against Pumas allowed two blatant... not one... offsides goals as legitimate scores.....

Pumas beat both Real Madrid and FC Barcelona in Spain two years ago.... and the Spanish clubs were fielding their "A" Squads..... hmmm. Yeah... "Mexican clubs can never beat elite European clubs" is not an accurate statement either...

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Historically no... but I never stated that to be a fact.... If you look at the trend of the lastest Libertadores Cups and this latest Nissan Cup... two Mexican squads have crept into the top 8 slots 4 times and at least 1 has reached the semi-finals 3 times. This is the second time a Mexican club has reached the Finals since they started getting invites back in 1999. To suggest that they have no talent is also rather naive.

Talent does not equal trophies. Until Mexico gets some real silverware, that's all they are, a good team. Would you call the TWolves, Kings, Suns or Pacers a powerhouse in the NBA? They had a couple of good years without any trophies, and then faded into obscurity again.

Good points....

Saprissa is playing because the U.S. Referee tandem that called the game against Pumas allowed two blatant... not one... offsides goals as legitimate scores.....

Pumas beat both Real Madrid and FC Barcelona in Spain two years ago.... and the Spanish clubs were fielding their "A" Squads..... hmmm. Yeah... "Mexican clubs can never beat elite European clubs" is not an accurate statement either...

In friendlies. Barcelona and Real Madrid lost and drew against Japanese clubs three years ago in preseasons friendlies. Did that make the Japanese League and National Team world beaters?

[Phenomanul]

Also, you asume that players that transfer from the Argentinian leagues to Mexico aren't developing or getting better.... that they remain stagnant...

It's like the Trailblazers saying "we'll trade Jermaine O'Neal to the Pacers cause he hasn't shown much of anything playing behind Rasheed...." Yeah, bad decision... Smart players develop and add things to their game. Jermaine busted out simply because he was getting playing time...

Anyways...

[Phenomanul]

Talent does not equal trophies. Until Mexico gets some real silverware, that's all they are, a good team. Would you call the TWolves, Kings, Suns or Pacers a powerhouse in the NBA? They had a couple of good years without any trophies, and then faded into obscurity again.



In friendlies. Barcelona and Real Madrid lost and drew against Japanese clubs three years ago in preseasons friendlies. Did that make the Japanese League and National Team world beaters?

I also stated that Necaxa placed 3rd and above Real Madrid in the first Edition of the World Club Championships....

And I'm talking clubs here... strictly clubs... the whole "Japanese being National Team world beaters..." was way off-base from anything I said....

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Also, you asume that players that transfer from the Argentinian leagues to Mexico aren't developing or getting better.... that they remain stagnant...

It's like the Trailblazers saying "we'll trade Jermaine O'Neal to the Pacers cause he hasn't shown much of anything playing behind Rasheed...." Yeah, bad decision... Smart players develop and add things to their game. Jermaine busted out simply because he was getting playing time...

Anyways...

But you are comparing different levels of opposition and leagues, this would be like the Blazers saying "let's trade Jermaine O'Neal to some Spanish/Italian/Israeli team".

But before we get into a mess, let's stop comparing different sports.

The most simple explanation is: There are many better Argentinian players than Gaitán, Marioni or Franco (before he decided to play for Mexico), and that's why they weren't called up for the National Team.

[smeagol]

Put in layman's terms

The most simple explanation is: There are many better Argentinian players than Gaitán, Marioni or Franco (before he decided to play for Mexico), and that's why they weren't called up for the National Team.

[Phenomanul]

But you are comparing different levels of opposition and leagues, this would be like the Blazers saying "let's trade Jermaine O'Neal to some Spanish/Italian/Israeli team".

But before we get into a mess, let's stop comparing different sports.

The most simple explanation is: There are many better Argentinian players than Gaitán, Marioni or Franco (before he decided to play for Mexico), and that's why they weren't called up for the National Team.

Fair enough... I'm simply trying to point out the fact Argentina choses not to pick up players playing in the Mexican leagues over players playing in Argentina because it would be like making a concession to the fact that the Mexican League was legit (which happens to pay better salaries than that offered by most Argentinean clubs).

Most Argentineans would be apalled by that notion... and that is why it rarely happens. Comparable talent aside, I believe that 'discrimination' to be one of the underlying reasons for said trend.

[smeagol]

Fair enough... I'm simply trying to point out the fact Argentina choses not to pick up players playing in the Mexican leagues over players playing in Argentina because it would be like making a concession to the fact that the Mexican League was legit (which happens to pay better salaries than that offered by most Argentinean clubs).

Most Argentineans would be apalled by that notion... and that is why it rarely happens. Comparable talent aside, I believe that 'discrimination' to be one of the underlying reasons for said trend.

BS.

C'mon Hector, you know better than that.

They don't chose Argentine players playing in the Mexican league because there are better Argie players playing elsewhere.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Fair enough... I'm simply trying to point out the fact Argentina choses not to pick up players playing in the Mexican leagues over players playing in Argentina because it would be like making a concession to the fact that the Mexican League was legit (which happens to pay better salaries than that offered by most Argentinean clubs).

Most Argentineans would be apalled by that notion... and that is why it rarely happens. Comparable talent aside, I believe that 'discrimination' to be one of the underlying reasons for said trend.

You are making an issue where there is none. Argentinian common people couldn't care less about the Mexican league, and not because they don't like it, people simply don't watch it. Most of the people don't even think about the Mexicans as rivals, in fact, there is more bitter rivalry with Brazil, Chile and Colombia. That's not really an issue, if so, then Tevez and Mascherano wouldn't be called because they are playing in Brazil. Simply put it this way: the Argentinians that move to the Mexican league aren't the better players, if so, then a Mexican team would be buying Aguero or Palacio for €20 million in the next Northern Hemisphere summer.

"not to pick up players playing in the Mexican leagues over players playing in Argentina because it would be like making a concession to the fact that the Mexican League was legit "

Very few players playing in Argentina are called up to the team. In fact, only Abbondanzieri, the goalie, is the only regular face in Pekerman's call ups who isn't playing in Europe.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Fair enough... I'm simply trying to point out the fact Argentina choses not to pick up players playing in the Mexican leagues over players playing in Argentina because it would be like making a concession to the fact that the Mexican League was legit (which happens to pay better salaries than that offered by most Argentinean clubs).

Most Argentineans would be apalled by that notion... and that is why it rarely happens. Comparable talent aside, I believe that 'discrimination' to be one of the underlying reasons for said trend.

it seems to me you're more eager to have the MeXican League regarded as legit than the Argies are of making any concession about it. The Mexican league will be regarded as legit when it actually accomplishes something. Look the reason why those Argentinians in the Mexican league aren't chosen is because they are simply not good enough, if you are desperate in need of another explanation, then that's your issue.

[Phenomanul]

BS.

C'mon Hector, you know better than that.

They don't chose Argentine players playing in the Mexican league because there are better Argie players playing elsewhere.

Perhaps in Europe, but when it comes down to selecting against those playing in Argentina... some of them are not better than those that play in Mexico....

Your media can 'tout' and 'promote' them as better all they want... I see the bigger picture.... You might not say it outright... or you might not believe it (which is good)... but Argentineans typically carry themselves as if they were superior to the rest of the latin-american races from this hemisphere...

What happened when the player from Boca Juniors lured Cuahtemoc Blanco into a fight (everyone knows Blanco is a hot-head)? The CONMEBOL banned Blanco for two years and disallowed further games at Azteca Stadium...

By the same token, when Boca's fans started throwing things at Guadalajara's Chivas and started luring Adolfo Bautista into fighting... I didn't see that committee levy any fines or suspensions against the poster child organization of your Federation. Now that was B.S.

How many articles criticizing the convocación of Cesar Delgado to the National team were released... almost all of them suggested that a local player be selected..... and yet Delgado was a vital player to Argentina's Gold Medal Squad.... I'm not 'blind' to the social implications that play behind the 'politics' in fútbol...

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Perhaps in Europe, but when it comes down to selecting against those playing in Argentina... some of them are not better than those that play in Mexico....

Your media can 'tout' and 'promote' them as better all they want... I see the bigger picture.... You might not say it outright... or you might not believe it (which is good)... but Argentineans typically carry themselves as if they were superior to the rest of the latin-american races from this hemisphere...

What happened when the player from Boca Juniors lured Cuahtemoc Blanco into a fight (everyone knows Blanco is a hot-head)? The CONMEBOL banned Blanco for two years and disallowed further games at Azteca Stadium...

By the same token, when Boca's fans started throwing things at Guadalajara's Chivas and started luring Adolfo Bautista into fighting... I didn't see that committee levy any fines or suspensions against the poster child organization of your Federation. Now that was B.S.

How many articles criticizing the convocación of Cesar Delgado to the National team were released... almost all of them suggested that a local player be selected..... and yet Delgado was a vital player to Argentina's Gold Medal Squad.... I'm not 'blind' to the social implications that play behind the 'politics' in fútbol...

right, because we should choose our players for our national team so as to appease your need to feel important? Give me a break!

[Phenomanul]

it seems to me you're more eager to have the MeXican League regarded as legit than the Argies are of making any concession about it. The Mexican league will be regarded as legit when it actually accomplishes something. Look the reason why those Argentinians in the Mexican league aren't chosen is because they are simply not good enough, if you are desperate in need of another explanation, then that's your issue.

It will in time... once the FMF (Federación Mexicana de Fútbol) starts making better decisions that promote the development of young Mexican players as opposed to seeking money for their own pockets....

Some of that is already changing... the results... Mexico's first U-17 World Championship....

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Perhaps in Europe, but when it comes down to selecting against those playing in Argentina... some of them are not better than those that play in Mexico....

Your media can 'tout' and 'promote' them as better all they want... I see the bigger picture.... You might not say it outright... or you might not believe it (which is good)... but Argentineans typically carry themselves as if they were superior to the rest of the latin-american races from this hemisphere...

What happened when the player from Boca Juniors lured Cuahtemoc Blanco into a fight (everyone knows Blanco is a hot-head)? The CONMEBOL banned Blanco for two years and disallowed further games at Azteca Stadium...

By the same token, when Boca's fans started throwing things at Guadalajara's Chivas and started luring Adolfo Bautista into fighting... I didn't see that committee levy any fines or suspensions against the poster child organization of your Federation. Now that was B.S.

How many articles criticizing the convocación of Cesar Delgado to the National team were released... almost all of them suggested that a local player be selected..... and yet Delgado was a vital player to Argentina's Gold Medal Squad.... I'm not 'blind' to the social implications that play behind the 'politics' in fútbol...

oh and by the way, Boca's coach was fired if you didn't notice, so what the are you talking about?

[Phenomanul]

right, because we should choose our players for our national team so as to appease your need to feel important? Give me a break!

Read a little more before you respond in that fashion..... please.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Read a little more before you respond in that fashion..... please.

I read everything you posted and I think its bull . Satisfied?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Look, face it, there is no great conspiracy against Mexicans or their league. The Argentinian players over there are simply not the best we have, now deal with it or STFU

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Perhaps in Europe, but when it comes down to selecting against those playing in Argentina... some of them are not better than those that play in Mexico....

Your media can 'tout' and 'promote' them as better all they want... I see the bigger picture.... You might not say it outright... or you might not believe it (which is good)... but Argentineans typically carry themselves as if they were superior to the rest of the latin-american races from this hemisphere...

What happened when the player from Boca Juniors lured Cuahtemoc Blanco into a fight (everyone knows Blanco is a hot-head)? The CONMEBOL banned Blanco for two years and disallowed further games at Azteca Stadium...

By the same token, when Boca's fans started throwing things at Guadalajara's Chivas and started luring Adolfo Bautista into fighting... I didn't see that committee levy any fines or suspensions against the poster child organization of your Federation. Now that was B.S.

How many articles criticizing the convocación of Cesar Delgado to the National team were released... almost all of them suggested that a local player be selected..... and yet Delgado was a vital player to Argentina's Gold Medal Squad.... I'm not 'blind' to the social implications that play behind the 'politics' in fútbol...

Your points are slipping mate...

You might not say it outright... or you might not believe it (which is good)... but Argentineans typically carry themselves as if they were superior to the rest of the latin-american races from this hemisphere...

Some may do, but I don't see what other "races" are you talking about...what's the difference between an Argentinian and a Chilean? or what's the difference with a Costa Rican?

Perhaps in Europe, but when it comes down to selecting against those playing in Argentina... some of them are not better than those that play in Mexico....

Like who? If Pekerman has to make a choice, who would he select? Rodrigo Palacio or Bruno Marioni? 99% of coaches would chose Palacio.

What happened when the player from Boca Juniors lured Cuahtemoc Blanco into a fight (everyone knows Blanco is a hot-head)? The CONMEBOL banned Blanco for two years and disallowed further games at Azteca Stadium...

Blanco did that against a Brazilian team, Boca wasn't involved at all in that.

How many articles criticizing the convocación of Cesar Delgado to the National team were released... almost all of them suggested that a local player be selected..... and yet Delgado was a vital player to Argentina's Gold Medal Squad.... I'm not 'blind' to the social implications that play behind the 'politics' in fútbol..

Ok, someone has to say it: this is bull . Who wrote something against Delgado? Who suggested that a local player should be selected? The voices that talk about local players being selected, do it even before big names in Europe (they say Palacio, Bilos or Aguero should be called instead of Crespo or Saviola).

I'm sorry, but you are losing it. With the amount of pressure to get results that it means to be the Argentinian National Coach, Pekerman can't leave better players out of his call ups because "they play in Mexico". He has some more important things to think about, like winning every game because the fans will ask him to quit if he fails to.

[Phenomanul]

oh and by the way, Boca's coach was fired if you didn't notice, so what the are you talking about?

Yeah, but how did that hurt Boca... they hired Basile... the sanctions imposed on Blanco and on Azteca stadium were intended to keep Club América from winning a CONMEBOL tournament....

And what Boca's fans did was 10 times worse than what happened at Azteca Stadium...

Understand first and then launch your counter-arguments.... your response only showed a lack of comprehension on the problem that I was exposing....

Anyways I hate it when things get personal so we'll just agree to disagree....

[Phenomanul]

Your points are slipping mate...



Some may do, but I don't see what other "races" are you talking about...what's the difference between an Argentinian and a Chilean? or what's the difference with a Costa Rican?

Many Argentineans consider themselves "white" and consider the Chileans, the Costa Ricans, Ecuatorianos, Colombians, Mexicans... as Indians.... Don't be naive that that is not the case.... It is not the rule, but it is definitely not the exception.

Like who? If Pekerman has to make a choice, who would he select? Rodrigo Palacio or Bruno Marioni? 99% of coaches would chose Palacio.



Blanco did that against a Brazilian team, Boca wasn't involved at all in that.



Ok, someone has to say it: this is bull . Who wrote something against Delgado? Who suggested that a local player should be selected? The voices that talk about local players being selected, do it even before big names in Europe (they say Palacio, Bilos or Aguero should be called instead of Crespo or Saviola).

I'm sorry, but you are losing it. With the amount of pressure to get results that it means to be the Argentinian National Coach, Pekerman can't leave better players out of his call ups because "they play in Mexico". He has some more important things to think about, like winning every game because the fans will ask him to quit if he fails to.

You're correct about it being against a brazillian squad... same difference, the sanctions were imposed by CONMEBOL.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Yeah, but how did that hurt Boca... they hired Basile... the sanctions imposed on Blanco and on Azteca stadium were intended to keep America from winning a CONMEBOL tournament....

And what Boca's fans did was 10 times worse than what happened at Azteca Stadium...

Understand first and then launch your counter-arguments.... your response only showed a lack of comprehension on the problem that I was exposing....

Anyways I hate it when things get personal so we'll just agree to disagree....

no, the point is you're trying to imply that us Argentinians have a problem with Mexicans and that is why we don't choose players from there, which is ofcourse bull . The fact is those players are not good enough, and thats why they are playing over in Mexico instead of playing in Europe. There is no conspiracy, no plan to "put down" the Mexican people. Mexican futbol is imply not good enough, get it? got it? good

[Phenomanul]

no, the point is you're trying to imply that us Argentinians have a problem with Mexicans and that is why we don't choose players from there, which is ofcourse bull . The fact is those players are not good enough, and thats why they are playing over in Mexico instead of playing in Europe. There is no conspiracy, no plan to "put down" the Mexican people. Mexican futbol is imply not good enough, get it? got it? good

We'll see Sunday... of course if Pumas wins... You all will start throwing the history....

Anyways I'm not saying all Argentineans are aware of this or behave this way....

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Many Argentineans consider themselves "white" and consider the Chileans, the Costa Ricans, Ecuatorianos, Colombians, Mexicans... as Indians.... Don't be naive that that is not the case.... It is not the rule, but it is definitely not the exception.




You're correct about it being against a brazillian squad... same difference, the sanctions were imposed by CONMEBOL.

I love it, a Mexican telling us how our society works Ever lived over here princess? 'cause if you haven't I don't see how you're qualified to make an assesment as to how our culture thinks and what is the rule or the exception.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I don't think we are better than Mexicans, just that we are better at soccer than Mexicans, and that is a fact baby, just as it is a fact that Americans are better at basketball than most. If you can't handle that, then thats your problem.

[Phenomanul]

I love it, a Mexican telling us how our society works Ever lived over here princess? 'cause if you haven't I don't see how you're qualified to make an assesment as to how our culture thinks and what is the rule or the exception.

Don't be assinine... that is a general phrase.