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  1. #26
    Boring = 4 Rings SA210's Avatar
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    It would help me to respond to you if you actually bothered to answer my question, rather than resorting to name-calling.

    You say that we're not exporting our form of government, but turn around and say that we're trying to help the Iraqis set up a governmental form that is similar to ours. Which is it?

    You offered predictions about the possibility that democracy will fail in Iraq -- and I hope you're wrong about that -- but you didn't explain why this nation isn't trying to do the same thing in other parts of the world.

    What was I supposed to do to respond to your philosophical viewpoint when it was only tangentially related to the question I posed?
    I think Xray's head is about to hurt.

  2. #27
    Retired Ray xrayzebra's Avatar
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    It would help me to respond to you if you actually bothered to answer my question, rather than resorting to name-calling.

    You say that we're not exporting our form of government, but turn around and say that we're trying to help the Iraqis set up a governmental form that is similar to ours. Which is it?

    You offered predictions about the possibility that democracy will fail in Iraq -- and I hope you're wrong about that -- but you didn't explain why this nation isn't trying to do the same thing in other parts of the world.

    What was I supposed to do to respond to your philosophical viewpoint when it was only tangentially related to the question I posed?
    You really don't want an answer. I cant answer some thing, no more than
    you can. I can only respond by what my opinion is. What is your answer
    to the question you pose? Is there a solution? How do you fight
    corruption? How do you fight terrorist who have no central point? You
    give me some answers?

  3. #28
    Retired Ray xrayzebra's Avatar
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    I think Xray's head is about to hurt.
    SA210, any answer I gave to you would only be answered by
    you posting some other editorial cartoon. Grown up.

  4. #29
    Boring = 4 Rings SA210's Avatar
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    SA210, any answer I gave to you would only be answered by
    you posting some other editorial cartoon. Grown up.
    And any editorial cartoon has more substance and truth than any jibberish you post.



  5. #30
    Retired Ray xrayzebra's Avatar
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    ^^okay you answer the questions I posted. You are so smart. Give me the
    answer all knowing one.

  6. #31
    Boring = 4 Rings SA210's Avatar
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    I cant answer some thing, no more than
    you can. I can only respond by what my opinion is.
    Thanks for finally admitting that you DO NOT respond with facts, but only your opinions to back up your opinions.

    How do you fight corruption?
    You could start by getting rid of these guys


    How do you fight terrorist?
    By going after the guy that actually attacked us.



    Next.

  7. #32
    Retired Ray xrayzebra's Avatar
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    Thanks for finally admitting that you DO NOT respond with facts, but only your opinions to back up your opinions.


    You could start by getting rid of these guys



    By going after the guy that actually attacked us.



    Next.
    You really are a twerp!

  8. #33
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    You really don't want an answer. I cant answer some thing, no more than
    you can. I can only respond by what my opinion is. What is your answer
    to the question you pose? Is there a solution? How do you fight
    corruption? How do you fight terrorist who have no central point? You
    give me some answers?
    Curious that I have to answer my questions before you'll do so.

    Nevertheless, I do want your answer. I'm interested to know why you think that policy hasn't been applied consistently elsewhere.

    I can answer my own question, but will acknowledge up front the great likelihood that you will reject my answer simply because I'm on the opposite side of the political fence from you. I doubt it would matter much what I say because, no matter what it is that I say, you have decided that my opinions aren't worthy of any sort of respect. So be it.

    My answer is this: I think it's bad foreign policy to rationalize wars by the subsequent importation of democracy. It's bad foreign policy because it's impossible to be consistent without severely overtaxing the resources of this country -- most of which could be put to better use in dealing with the problems of the American people.

    Am I glad that the Iraqis are flirting with the democracy that we have helped them to develop? Sure. Do I think it justifies going to war with a country that had done no direct ill to any other sovereign nation after the first Gulf War? Absolutely not.

    I think the foreign policy failure of this Administration is one resulting from a lack of focus. Like I said eariler in this thread, I wholeheartedly support the war in Afghanistan. I think that war should be at the forefront of our national concern, because THAT war is being prosecuted to put an end to those who undertook 9/11. But this Administration barely acknowledges that anything is going on in Afghanistan and is so busy trying to justify an unpopular war in Iraq that it seems to have forgotten that the primary target in the war on terror should be the capture or death of Osama bin Laden.

    That war -- that goal -- was not one that was grossly unpopular with the rest of the world and it was not one that caused great societal upheavals in the theater of operations.

    Had the White House fully prosecuted that war to its end and THEN begun to think about Iraq, I suspect that questions about the foreign policy goals of the White House would be far less strident. But that's not what the White House did, and I find that course of action to be imprudent.

    I think the White House's decision to attack Iraq has done more to fuel terrorists than it has to eliminate them. By invading Iraq without any immediate justification for doing so, this nation now appears to be nothing other than the proverbial bully on the block, willing to depose governments we don't like -- not because they've done anything to us directly, but simply because we disagree with their operation or, more specifically, with their leaders.

    I think the notion of exporting democracy in a first-strike fashion isn't a consistently-applied foreign policy because other nations with similarly-subjugated people don't offer any sort of tactical or strategic advantage.

  9. #34
    Boring = 4 Rings SA210's Avatar
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    You really are a twerp!
    You are too ridiculous. It seems that even if your life depended on it, you couldn't debate using facts. I answered your questions and u call me a twerp.

    I can't take you serious. I'd rather debate with someone intelligent.

  10. #35
    Boring = 4 Rings SA210's Avatar
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    Great post FromWayDowntown.

  11. #36
    Retired Ray xrayzebra's Avatar
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    FWD: You said: "My answer is this: I think it's bad foreign policy to rationalize wars by the subsequent importation of democracy. It's bad foreign policy because it's impossible to be consistent without severely overtaxing the resources of this country -- most of which could be put to better use in dealing with the problems of the American people."

    How do you overtax the resources of a country by protecting it. Yes, I
    know you don't think we are, but I don't.

    then:
    "Am I glad that the Iraqis are flirting with the democracy that we have helped them to develop? Sure. Do I think it justifies going to war with a country that had done no direct ill to any other sovereign nation after the first Gulf War? Absolutely not.

    They did no direct ill to another country? You are not serious are you?
    $25,000 to terrorist that died killing people Israel? Gave statuary to
    terrorist. And they did.

    And:

    "think the foreign policy failure of this Administration is one resulting from a lack of focus. Like I said earlier in this thread, I wholeheartedly support the war in Afghanistan. I think that war should be at the forefront of our national concern, because THAT war is being prosecuted to put an end to those who undertook 9/11. But this Administration barely acknowledges that anything is going on in Afghanistan and is so busy trying to justify an unpopular war in Iraq that it seems to have forgotten that the primary target in the war on terror should be the capture or death of Osama bin Laden. "

    No the media did that. Our government has kept it's commitment to
    the Afghanistan war. It is just that things have gone well there and
    there is nothing that the media wants to report and doesn't want to give
    any credit to the present administration.

    "I think the White House's decision to attack Iraq has done more to fuel terrorists than it has to eliminate them. By invading Iraq without any immediate justification for doing so, this nation now appears to be nothing other than the proverbial bully on the block, willing to depose governments we don't like -- not because they've done anything to us directly, but simply because we disagree with their operation or, more specifically, with their leaders."

    Terrorist existed before Iraq, not only existed, but attacked us before and
    would again if it were possible. You know WTC was attacked twice not
    just once. We lost troops in Saudi Arabia, had embassies attacked in
    several countries and and ship blown out of the water. All by terrorist.

    Your statement:
    "I think the notion of exporting democracy in a first-strike fashion isn't a consistently-applied foreign policy because other nations with similarly-subjugated people don't offer any sort of tactical or strategic advantage."

    Just doesn't make sense. We will more than likely make more
    "first-strike" strategies before it is all over. Should we wait till they kill
    more of us...that includes you too, you know.

  12. #37
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Terrorist existed before Iraq, not only existed, but attacked us before and
    would again if it were possible. You know WTC was attacked twice not
    just once. We lost troops in Saudi Arabia, had embassies attacked in
    several countries and and ship blown out of the water. All by terrorist.
    All this would make sense if the terrorists behind all these attacks had been Iraqi.

    They weren't.

  13. #38
    Retired Ray xrayzebra's Avatar
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    All this would make sense if the terrorists behind all these attacks had been Iraqi.

    They weren't.
    Okay, tell me where they are? You must know, the CIA, FBI and NSA really
    wants to talk to you. Anyhow, they are now, aren't they?

  14. #39
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Okay, tell me where they are? You must know, the CIA, FBI and NSA really
    wants to talk to you.
    If I knew, I'd already be wiretapped wouldn't I?
    Anyhow, they are now, aren't they?
    Well, it's your choice to laugh at all the dead US and Iraqi folk if you like. I'm don't find it quite so humorous that they died for a distraction.

  15. #40
    Retired Ray xrayzebra's Avatar
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    If I knew, I'd already be wiretapped wouldn't I?Well, it's your choice to laugh at all the dead US and Iraqi folk if you like. I'm don't find it quite so humorous that they died for a distraction.

    shhheeeesssh. Never mind. You better learn to have a sense of humor
    otherwise it is going to be a long life for you.

  16. #41
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Sorry, seen too much death up close lately to joke much about it.

  17. #42
    Retired Ray xrayzebra's Avatar
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    Sorry, seen too much death up close lately to joke much about it.
    Believe me when I tell you all the more reason to have a sense of humor.
    Sometimes life really does come to you too fast. I respect the fact that
    you have seen it. Death sometimes can be horrible and violent. Not to pretty. But sometimes it can be peaceful and welcomed. I think being my
    age helped. I was taught that death is part of life. We all must face it
    in our life (or time).

  18. #43
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Well, we certainly had a sense of humor about it while we could -- right up to the end -- but it was far too soon in this case and so I'm particularly sensitive about folks going before their time.

  19. #44
    Boring = 4 Rings SA210's Avatar
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    Believe me when I tell you all the more reason to have a sense of humor.
    Sometimes life really does come to you too fast. I respect the fact that
    you have seen it. Death sometimes can be horrible and violent. Not to pretty. But sometimes it can be peaceful and welcomed. I think being my
    age helped. I was taught that death is part of life. We all must face it
    in our life (or time).
    People die. It happens. It's a fact. That's proof enough to bomb anyone we want.

  20. #45
    Retired Ray xrayzebra's Avatar
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    People die. It happens. It's a fact. That's proof enough to bomb anyone we want.
    Watch it, we may say something that will hurt your feelings again.
    Wouldn't want that to happen.

  21. #46
    Boring = 4 Rings SA210's Avatar
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    Watch it, we may say something that will hurt your feelings again.
    Wouldn't want that to happen.
    OMG, that's it XRAY. You did it. Your post changed things!!


    NOT.

  22. #47
    chode bloadin' chode_regulator's Avatar
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    cliffs notes on the original post please?

  23. #48
    Retired Ray xrayzebra's Avatar
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    OMG, that's it XRAY. You did it. Your post changed things!!


    NOT.
    Such a nice lady you are.

  24. #49
    Boring = 4 Rings SA210's Avatar
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    ^^^ so how was your night with Gtown?

  25. #50
    I can live with it JoeChalupa's Avatar
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    I support the troops!!!!!!

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