East All Stars Vs West Who Wins?

[JamStone]

Arenas carries his team like no single Piston would. Look at the Pistons past, they were losers until they all got together. Together as a team they're awesome but alone, they are just ok.

Let's look at the Pistons' past:

Ben Wallace was a DPOY and all-NBA third team (2001-02) before Chauncey, Rip, Tayshaun, and Rasheed were even on the Pistons. What a loser!

Rip was a 20 pt scorer in Washington his last season on a team with Michael Jordan. He led his UConn team to an NCAA championship. What a loser!

When Terrell Brandon got injured in the 2001-02 season, Chauncey took over and helped lead the Timberwolves to the post-season. He put up crazy numbers (22 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 5.0 apg) in the playoffs for Minnesota in that 2002 post season. Chauncey was also a #3 draft pick. What a loser!

Rasheed was an all star in the Western Conference before joining the Pistons, and he led his Blazers to the Western Conference Finals in 2000, leading his team in scoring in the regular season and post-season. What a loser!


For you to say that the Pistons were losers until they all got together is a load of crap. Go ahead and look at their past. Calling them losers is like calling Rodney Harrison a loser before going to New England. He was still a pro bowl type player before he got a Superbowl ring. Calling them losers is like calling Shawn Marion a loser before Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire were his teammates. He was still an all star type player before them, he just got better.

Maybe playing together, Rip, Chauncey, Ben, and Rasheed have become better players. But, to say they were losers beforehand just makes absolutely no sense. Were Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili losers before playing with Tim Duncan?

Your statement is foundationless and based on pure biased hate. What a loser!

[Darrin]

Bad team or not, Paul Pierce is having a career season. He belongs on the team. Even as a Pistons fan, I think the criticisms that Rasheed is on the team has some merit. I don't think anyone can intelligibly argue against Chauncey, Ben, or Rip being named.

Then I guess I'll just call Paul Pierce "Mitch" from now on, as in Richmond.

I'm just sick of the slight. I am sick to death of hearing about how because this team is so good together that it has to be because these players can't do it alone. They sacrifice that personal glory to challege for Championships, and rather than applauding that, it's been a half-assed slap that they have to do it or they wouldn't be anything individually.

Rasheed has been huge this season. He has won 5-7 games down the stretch by hitting big shots. He turned a 15-point blowout in Chicago's favor into a laugher (literally) because of his abuse of Andreas Nocioni in the post. The big shots over Ike Diogu in a tight game in Golden State. 27, 10, and 4 in the Pistons first win in San Antonio since 1996-97 (regular season). Those 2nd-half threes in New Jersey. Those huge shots in the closing moments of last week's game in Philly. That dagger against Milwaukee. He's playing the best basketball of his Pistons career.

I am sick of hearing that for something to go this team's way, it has to be fixed for them or it's a mirage.

[nkdlunch]

Let's look at the Pistons' past:

Ben Wallace was a DPOY and all-NBA third team (2001-02) before Chauncey, Rip, Tayshaun, and Rasheed were even on the Pistons. What a loser!

Rip was a 20 pt scorer in Washington his last season on a team with Michael Jordan. He led his UConn team to an NCAA championship. What a loser!

When Terrell Brandon got injured in the 2001-02 season, Chauncey took over and helped lead the Timberwolves to the post-season. He put up crazy numbers (22 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 5.0 apg) in the playoffs for Minnesota in that 2002 post season. Chauncey was also a #3 draft pick. What a loser!

Rasheed was an all star in the Western Conference before joining the Pistons, and he led his Blazers to the Western Conference Finals in 2000, leading his team in scoring in the regular season and post-season. What a loser!


For you to say that the Pistons were losers until they all got together is a load of crap. Go ahead and look at their past. Calling them losers is like calling Rodney Harrison a loser before going to New England. He was still a pro bowl type player before he got a Superbowl ring. Calling them losers is like calling Shawn Marion a loser before Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire were his teammates. He was still an all star type player before them, he just got better.

Maybe playing together, Rip, Chauncey, Ben, and Rasheed have become better players. But, to say they were losers beforehand just makes absolutely no sense. Were Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili losers before playing with Tim Duncan?

Your statement is foundationless and based on pure biased hate. What a loser!

all individual achievments. I'm talking about one of them carrying their team. None of them have. all of them were outcasts, even they say it. and i don't hate the Pistons, they are a great team and together they can play. But they cannot carry a team like Arenas does almost every night, it's true that this year he is getting a little more help but he deserves to be an All-star more than at least 2 of the 4 pistons.

[himat]

So that allows Redd and Arenas to get screwed over biased fans and coaches favoring one team? No NBA fan, no Piston fan can say about that. Rip and Billups deserved it, BWall is a have to cause the East has for big men. But Sheed over Redd/Arenas? Bull .

for once the piston players didn't get screwed.

[Marklar MM]

Personally, Elton Brand should be starting over Duncan.

[JamStone]

all individual achievments. I'm talking about one of them carrying their team. None of them have. all of them were outcasts, even they say it. and i don't hate the Pistons, they are a great team and together they can play. But they cannot carry a team like Arenas does almost every night, it's true that this year he is getting a little more help but he deserves to be an All-star more than at least 2 of the 4 pistons.

Did you read it???

Rasheed led his Portland Trailblazers team to the Western Conference Finals in 2000. He led the team in scoring as the #1 option. He led them to game 7 to the eventual championship LA Lakers. That's about as good as Kevin Garnett or Jason Kidd or Allen Iverson and their all star selections have never been in question. That's not leading his team to a le. But, if that were the criteria for all star selection, then only Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Billups, and Ben Wallace should be all stars.

What about Chauncey Billups stepping up in the season Terrell Brandon got injured as a solidified back-up point guard, and when the playoffs came, Chauncey averages 22 ppg, 5.7 rpg, and 5.0 apg. The Wolves lost in the first round. But, when Brandon went down, a lot of people expected the Timberwolves to fold and not even make the playoffs. Again, not an individual achievement.

Rip's NCAA championhip? Anytime you lead your team to a championship, that is not an individual achievement.

All of those examples demonstrate those players "CARRYING THEIR TEAM." You are naive to believe otherwise, especially if your argument is that Arenas carries his team every night, yet his team is barely over .500. Billups, Rasheed, and Rip have carried teams and helped them win. Except for Rip, it didn't lead to les or an NBA Finals appearance, but Michael Redd and Gilbert Arenas carrying their teams very likely won't lead to an NBA appearance either.

Your argument is refuted, disproven, and completely disregarded.

[nkdlunch]

Did you read it???

Rasheed led his Portland Trailblazers team to the Western Conference Finals in 2000. He led the team in scoring as the #1 option. He led them to game 7 to the eventual championship LA Lakers. That's about as good as Kevin Garnett or Jason Kidd or Allen Iverson and their all star selections have never been in question. That's not leading his team to a le. But, if that were the criteria for all star selection, then only Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Billups, and Ben Wallace should be all stars.

What about Chauncey Billups stepping up in the season Terrell Brandon got injured as a solidified back-up point guard, and when the playoffs came, Chauncey averages 22 ppg, 5.7 rpg, and 5.0 apg. The Wolves lost in the first round. But, when Brandon went down, a lot of people expected the Timberwolves to fold and not even make the playoffs. Again, not an individual achievement.

Rip's NCAA championhip? Anytime you lead your team to a championship, that is not an individual achievement.

All of those examples demonstrate those players "CARRYING THEIR TEAM." You are naive to believe otherwise, especially if your argument is that Arenas carries his team every night, yet his team is barely over .500. Billups, Rasheed, and Rip have carried teams and helped them win. Except for Rip, it didn't lead to les or an NBA Finals appearance, but Michael Redd and Gilbert Arenas carrying their teams very likely won't lead to an NBA appearance either.

Your argument is refuted, disproven, and completely disregarded.

so you're saying Billups carried the wolves a whole season? and who the is talking about NCAA

[JamStone]

You said "all individual achievements."

I see you didn't refute my Rasheed example.

You said "one of them carrying their team." You never relegated it to just NBA. Carrying a college team to an NCAA le is pretty noteworthy, whatever you might say. And, it does disprove a notion that Rip was a loser before he was a Piston. Go ahead a trivialize it. It absolutely disproves your previous statement.

Chauncey did not carry the Wolves a whole season. But, he did step in after Terrelll Brandon got injured at the MOST IMPORTANT position on the team, to help lead the team to the playoffs, where had he not stepped up, they would not have reached. Of course Garnett carried the team. But, to not realize that that performance was the beginning of evolution of Chauncey Billups as a leader and all star caliber player, you just would be refusing to admit you're wrong.

[JamStone]

Look at the Pistons past, they were losers until they all got together. Together as a team they're awesome but alone, they are just ok.

This is your original statement. Alone, Rip, Ben, Chauncey, and Rasheed are "just ok."

Three time DPOY, multiple rebounding les, 3rd team all-NBA, just ok.

#3 draft pick, NBA Finals MVP, clutch performer, one of the league leaders in assists and assists-to-turnovers, proven playoff performer, just ok.

League leader in 3pt%, scoring leader on the team with the best record in the league, and YES NCAA champion and MOP, just ok.

Two time all star, 6-11 power forward with better shooting range than most shooting guards, match-up nightmare, one of the few players in the league that mans up Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, and Dirk Nowitzki one-on-one with no help of a double team, "CARRIED" his Portland Trailblazers team to the Western Conference Finals (how man Conference Finals has Arenas carried his team?), just ok.


You calling those four "just ok" outside of their team is laughable. Rasheed may have not really earned an all star selection this year. Maybe hegot the zealous benefit of coaches trying to make a point. But, his talent is undeniable. Sheed is one of the most talented players in the league. He is certainly NOT just ok. Chauncey Billups has performed at the highest level. Just like Shaquille O'Neal, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, and Tim Duncan, in the NBA finals, when it really counted, Chauncey came up with big performances. He is certainly not just ok. Ben Wallace is a three time DPOY, a four time all star, an all NBA selection, a rebounding champ, a blocked shots champ, and the foundation of a NBA championship team. He is certainly not just ok. Rip is a very good shooting guard. He does not have the flare of Kobe or Vince. He does not put up the numbers of Wade or Arenas. But he is the most efficient shooting guard in the league. He leads the best team in scoring. His shooting numbers overall are the best in the league. He has the best midrange game in the league. He is not Kobe or LeBron, but he is certainly not just ok.

Your logic is just ok.

[Darrin]

so you're saying Billups carried the wolves a whole season?

On February 4, 2002 in a game against the San Antonio Spurs, Terrell Brandon played his final game in the NBA. Chauncey Billups replaced the two-time All-Star in the starting lineup for the next 34 games. As a third option behind 2002 All-Stars Kevin Garnett and Wally Szczerbiak, Billups averaged 14.5 ppg (.413 FG%, .885 FT%, .387 3PT%), 6.9 apg, 3.3 rpg, .79 spg, and 2.26 tpg as the Wolves went 18-16 to finish the season (50-32). Overall, when Billups started, the Wolves were 32-22.

During this 34-game stretch, Billups set his career high in points (36 @ Dallas), blocked shots (3 vs. Denver), and assists (17 vs. Dallas, tying a team record). These records remained his career highs until this season (37 points vs. Orlando, 19 assists vs. Sacramento). He recorded the first triple-double of his career (vs. Memphis - 26 pts, 11 rebs, 10 asts). He set the Timberwolves franchise mark with 24 points in a single quarter, and 30 points in a half (@ Dallas).

Imagine Leandro Barbosa doing this if Steve Nash went down, Beno Udrih if Tony Parker has career-ending knee surgery.

In the playoffs, a 3-0 sweep by the Dallas Mavericks, Billups was even better: 22.0 ppg (.451 FG%, .700 FT%, .400 3PT%), 5.7 apg, 5.0 rpg, 1.00 spg, 3.0 tpg.

Did Billups carry a team by himself? No. But when given the opportunity to share more than his burden, he stepped up. He stepped up his play in the 2004 Finals after a disasterous Conference Finals. He has stepped up this season by becoming the leader of the best team in the NBA (40-8), calling 80% of the Pistons offensive sets.

He has not failed when given an opportunity to step up. People fearing for their jobs, wondering what kept moving him from city to city, especially after being the third overall draft pick - that is why he was considered a castoff. It wasn't because he couldn't cut it, it's because people wouldn't give him a chance to play through mistakes. If those are just words to you, take a look at Gary Payton's first two seasons: In 163 games (161 starts): 8.3 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 6.3 apg, 1.91 spg, 2.17 TPG.

Are you going to tell me that Gary Payton had problems making All-Star teams and carrying the offensive load for his team? And in comparison to their behavior, Billups is a choir boy.

[Darrin]

For Pistons and Spurs fans alike:

When Sean Elliott hit the Memorial Day Miracle 3-pointer after the team had been down, what 25 points, who's out-stretched fingers did he make it over? How old was that man in May of 1999?


The answers: Rasheed Wallace - a 24-year-old Rasheed Wallace leading his team to the 1999 Conference Finals. His team would knock off the two-time Conference Champion Utah Jazz with the reigning Most Valuable Player Karl Malone. Scottie Pippen wasn't on that team, and neither was Steve Smith. Rasheed Wallace was surrounded with Greg Anthony, Stacey Augmon, Damon Stoudamire, Detlef Schrempf, Arvydas Sabonis, Isaiah Rider, and Brian Grant.

[Darrin]

all individual achievments. I'm talking about one of them carrying their team. None of them have. all of them were outcasts, even they say it. and i don't hate the Pistons, they are a great team and together they can play. But they cannot carry a team like Arenas does almost every night, it's true that this year he is getting a little more help but he deserves to be an All-star more than at least 2 of the 4 pistons.

So you're telling me that Rip Hamilton couldn't go with Milwaukee's roster and have a .500 team right now, even put up the 25 point a night Redd has?

You're telling me that Chauncey Billups couldn't go to Washington with Antawn Jamison, Caron Butler, and Jarvis Hayes and make that a .500 team?

Better yet, take Gilbert off that team, put Rasheed on their roster and have Antonio Daniels at the point. That's not a .500 team with Rasheed Wallace at center?

[Mixability]

Tony is on the West Squad, so the West will win....

[Horry For 3!]

thanks Homer.

Why would I want them to lose? You always have some lame comment.

[bdubya]

We'll never know who wins an "All-stars v. all-stars" match, because the East cheated and snuck a TEAM onto the bench instead.

[Mixability]

Why would I want them to lose? You always have some lame comment.

At least give some more reasons as to why they'll win, not just because Tim and Tony are on the squad. You're always just lame. So we're even.

[1Parker1]

West wins, Kobe gets All Star MVP.

[JamStone]

Tony Parker
Kobe Bryant
Tracy McGrady
Elton Brand
Dirk Nowitzki

No one passes the ball. Each player shoots as soon as he touches the ball. Kobe and Dirk get in a fist fight when Brand actually passes the ball and Kobe and Dirk are in the same vicinity and fight for the ball. Kobe gets elbowed in the head, and he elbows Dirk in the throat. As they fight, Tony Parker runs down to grab the basketball and shoots a floater, but is fouled by his own teammate Elton Brand, and Brand takes the basketball and dunks the ball. Meanwhile, T-Mac steals the inbounds pass at halfcourt and proceeds to shoot it from 45 feet out ... it's the second possession of the second quarter, with 11:04 left in the quarter.

[nkdlunch]

So you're telling me that Rip Hamilton couldn't go with Milwaukee's roster and have a .500 team right now, even put up the 25 point a night Redd has?

Redd > Hamilton

You're telling me that Chauncey Billups couldn't go to Washington with Antawn Jamison, Caron Butler, and Jarvis Hayes and make that a .500 team?

Arenas > Billups

Better yet, take Gilbert off that team, put Rasheed on their roster and have Antonio Daniels at the point. That's not a .500 team with Rasheed Wallace at center?

no.

[T-Pain]

Look Into Your Crystall Balls And Tell Me

my crystal ball says the west will win, 141-136

MVP - Kobe Bryant (unfortunately)

[himat]

so you're saying Billups carried the wolves a whole season? and who the is talking about NCAA

besides rasheed none had a chance to lead there team. if our starters were traded right now they could lead teams. if you think arenas is a better leader than chauncey is you must be out of your mind.

[JamStone]

Arenas > Billups

If you think Gilbert Arenas is better than Chauncey Billups, do you think Dirk Nowitzki is better than Tim Duncan, just because Dirk scores more than Duncan?

Just like Arenas, Dirk is a more prolific scorer and has helped his team get to the playoffs. But, both Chauncey and Duncan have led their respective teams all the way to championships, and they are consistent players who don't have the flare or flash of some other players in the league.

Arenas is not better than Billups. Only a person who gets hyped by scoring and athleticism would think so. While you get wowed by Gilbert Arenas' breakneck quickness, watch Chauncey methodically dissect a team apart with not only passing and 3-pt shooting, but with tempo control and decision-making.

[Tanya]

Some spurs fans are just so funny.
I suggest them to accept the reality rather than bashing Billups, Rip, Sheed don't deserve to go.

[Horry For 3!]

At least give some more reasons as to why they'll win, not just because Tim and Tony are on the squad. You're always just lame. So we're even.

Right. I don't give a who wins so by default might as well want West to win as Tim and Tony are on the team.

[cheguevara]

If you think Gilbert Arenas is better than Chauncey Billups, do you think Dirk Nowitzki is better than Tim Duncan, just because Dirk scores more than Duncan?

Just like Arenas, Dirk is a more prolific scorer and has helped his team get to the playoffs. But, both Chauncey and Duncan have led their respective teams all the way to championships, and they are consistent players who don't have the flare or flash of some other players in the league.

Arenas is not better than Billups. Only a person who gets hyped by scoring and athleticism would think so. While you get wowed by Gilbert Arenas' breakneck quickness, watch Chauncey methodically dissect a team apart with not only passing and 3-pt shooting, but with tempo control and decision-making.

Arenas is better than Billups at carrying a crappy team like the Wizards throughout the season. Beleive me, w/out Arenas the wizards are the worst team in the NBA easily.

I am not saying if you replace Arenas w/Billups in the Pistons he will do better. No way. Billups is the best PG fit for this Pistons.

i agree, who's better is a tossup. I would personally pick arenas over Billups but that's just me. btw I never said Billups doesn't deserver allstar, he definitely deserves it.