For those Piston fans who said..

[Sec24Row7]

Yeah, you guys are playing like crap.

What gives?

[JamStone]

Yeah, you guys are playing like crap.

What gives?

I don't think the Pistons are playing like crap, but they are definitely not playing as well as they are capable of. And, there are a few reasons for that ...

1. They have been settling for a lot of jumpshots lately because they don't want to take the pounding of going going inside a lot.

2. They are a little tired from the grind of playing about 60 regular season games now.

3. They have had a stretch of a lot of road games recently.

4. Many of the teams that the Pistons have lost to in the last few weeks have played some of their best basketball all season. Both George Karl and Phil Jackson said as much in their respective post game interviews.

5. With the closest Eastern Conference team still 9.5 games behind the Pistons with about 25 games left in the season, it would almost appear the Piston have become somewhat disinterested and less focus in a lot of the recent games.


Playing like crap is certainly an overstatement. The Pistons are not playing great. But, it's more of a case of the aforementioned things than anything. Teams are playing with a lot more energy and intensity against the Pistons at their home stadiums with the help of their home crowds. And, still, the Pistons have been in most of those games, and a large number of them, the Pistons had sizeable leads in the second half. The Pistons just aren't playing with the energy, focus, and motivation as they were earlier on in the season. Acknowledging that Dallas and San Antonio have gained a lot of ground on Detroit, Detroit is still ahead of the game. Not playing their best, but not playing so badly to be a major concern just yet.

[Sense]

Thanks ... I think.

But, I'm not sure what being an all-star has anything to do with fatigue. I compared the Pistons starters to all-stars because those all-stars log heavy minutes as starters. Does being an all-star, or more importantly a veteran all-star, preclude them from experiencing fatigue? Just curious.

I could compare the Pistons starters to non-all star players like the following:

Andre Miller 36.7 mpg
Andre Iguodala 37.7 mpg
Richard Jefferson 39.8 mpg
Raja Bell 38.2 mpg
Lamar Odom 39.4 mpg

I'd still ask the same question. Would fatigue not affect those players just the same as the Pistons starters? Or wouldn't those players feel even more fatigue since they average MORE minutes per game? Does it make a difference that their other teammates who start don't all average 35-37 minutes per game.

So, is it the fact that the Pistons are winning or are known for playing tough defense make a difference in terms of them feeling more fatigue at some point in the regular season? Serious and sincere question ... does it?

Out of everyone you've mentioned... Think of how many were successful in the playoffs by winning a championship...

Mention more than 3.

[JamStone]

Out of everyone you've mentioned... Think of how many were successful in the playoffs by winning a championship...

Mention more than 3.

Exactly what would that accomplish by doing that???

Seeing how the only players still in the league that have won the championship as starters logging about 35 mpg would have been on the either the Pistons, Spurs, or Lakers, there aren't that many players to choose from. I assume you mean to preclude the Pistons players. Well, on the Spurs and Lakers championship teams, only two or three players were 35+ mpg players that are still playing those minutes.

And, now you want me to mention "more than 3"???

You're funny. There weren't that many to begin with, even if you include the Pistons. Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, Shaquille O'Neal, Bruce Bowen, Derek Fisher, Manu Ginobili, and Stephen Jackson basically make up the ENTIRE list I could choose from, and of course Shaq doesn't log those minutes anymore, Derek Fisher is a back-up, Stephen Jackson was not a 35 mpg starter in 2003 anyway, and Manu has had limited minutes because of injury. Eight possible candidates who were successful in winning a championship that I could choose from, and you want me to mention three?? If Manu had been healthy this season, I would guess he would hav averaged around 35 minutes a game. Similarly, Shaq has been slowed by injury this season, and with a solid back-up in Alonzo Mourning, and at Shaq's age, Riley has been smart to monitor his minutes. But, heck, Bruce Bowen is 34 years old and he averages 34 minutes a game.

How silly is that?

All of the Pistons starters are averaging about 36-37 mpg.

Kobe Bryant 40.7 mpg
Tim Duncan 35.5 mpg
Stephen Jackson 35.5 mpg
Tony Parker 34.8 mpg
Bruce Bowen 34.1 mpg
Shaquille O'Neal 29.7 mpg
Derek Fisher 29.8 mpg
Manu Ginobili 27.6 mpg

Shaq's minutes are down because of his age. Derek Fisher is now a back-up point guard. And, Manu has had limited minutes because of injury and the acquisition of Finley. The other five all average around 35 minutes a game except for Kobe. So, the Pistons starters all average around 36-37 mpg.

So, what exactly are you trying to say? 50-100 more ac ulative minutes over the course of 80 some odd games in SIX MONTHS is going to be spell doom for the Pistons??? Is that what you're really banking on happening?

mmmmmmok ...

[himat]

the pistons will come off this slump, and i'm very sure of it.

[jochhejaam]

the pistons will come off this slump, and i'm very sure of it.

Most teams would love to be in slump where they've only won 9 of the last 12.

[Sense]

I don't know why, but I'm pretty sure the Pistons won't win a championship this season as I read your posts.

[T.F. Storm]

I don't know why, but I'm pretty sure the Pistons won't win a championship this season as I read your posts.

Wishful thinking, Eh?

[Extra Stout]

All this talk about the Pistons wearing down and getting fatigued, and thus being a diminished team come Finals time, is wishful thinking.

Every team has a lull. That's all this stretch is -- a lull. They're not wearing down any more than most other teams. They never were going to maintain that 72-win pace. Pistons fans knew it. Spurs fans knew it. Bob Dole knew it. And the American people knew it.

And now that the inevitable slowdown has occurred, Spurs fans are latching onto it, because, after all, we need a reason to believe that the two fundamental ass-whoopings the Pistons have pasted upon San Antonio this year aren't indicative of what might happen in the Finals, and the "they shot their wad by playing too hard early in the season" hypothesis sounds as good as any, even though the data in no way support it.

It's going to be one of the all-time reaches when Detroit finishes like 66-16, and there's this handful of Spurs fans screaming, "But they were only 30-11 in the second half! They're slowing down!"

[z0sa]

Wow, these pistons fans are a little overconfident. Last I checked, your team LOST in SA Game 7.

So maybe you should start caring more about HCA...

[bdubya]

...... we need a reason to believe that the two fundamental ass-whoopings the Pistons have pasted upon San Antonio this year aren't indicative of what might happen in the Finals, and the "they shot their wad by playing too hard early in the season" hypothesis sounds as good as any,

I agree with everything you said except that part. The only "hypothesis" needed re: those two beatdowns (those lyrical, artistic beatdowns worthy of framing in the DIA) is that the most recent of them was still in January. I'd love to believe that they ARE indicative of how a Spurs/Pistons finals would go, but then I'd like to still believe in Santa, too.

[Extra Stout]

I agree with everything you said except that part. The only "hypothesis" needed re: those two beatdowns (those lyrical, artistic beatdowns worthy of framing in the DIA) is that the most recent of them was still in January. I'd love to believe that they ARE indicative of how a Spurs/Pistons finals would go, but then I'd like to still believe in Santa, too.

Things that will go the same:

1. The Pistons frontcourt still will be physically dominant
2. The Pistons defense still will stop the plays that none of the other 28 teams can stop (e.g., Parker at the rim).

Things that will go differently:

1. Nazr Mohammed will get minutes instead of Rasho Nesterovic, so it won't seem as if Ben Wallace is playing unopposed the entire game anymore.
2. Manu Ginobili will have an impact on the game.

[Darrin]

1. Nazr Mohammed will get minutes instead of Rasho Nesterovic, so it won't seem as if Ben Wallace is playing unopposed the entire game anymore.

Don't forget about Kelvin Cato and Dale Davis, two guys the Spurs have not seen yet.

2. Manu Ginobili will have an impact on the game.

There's the guy who drew Ginobili comparisons coming into the league - Carlos Delfino, and Maurice Evans - both who have reputations as solid defenders. Neither one was backing up Lindsey Hunter in the Finals last season (Delfino was left off the playoff roster).

Just trying to give you a little more food for thought.

[Sense]

Wishful thinking, Eh?

Not really, but trust me I thought it was weird too..

[bdubya]

2. The Pistons defense still will stop the plays that none of the other 28 teams can stop (e.g., Parker at the rim).

You really think? That's actually my #1 concern - Pistons have had trouble all season with dribble penetration, especially by quick guards. Coincidentally(?), that seems to be where Parker's developed his game this year. Yeah, we can keep his inside scoring down, but doing it without leaving somebody else open is the challenge.

[Dunc]

I don't know why, but I'm pretty sure the Pistons won't win a championship this season as I read your posts.

Definitely the posts of a fan will have a major impact on whether the Pistons win a championship or not. If it helps ease your mind on this difficult night, please, continue to focus on that.

[jochhejaam]

...The pistons wouldn't get tired as the season neared its end.

Don't look now but... The Pistons have 11 losses while the Mavs and Spurs have 12.

Update-(13)
Puncuation mark! LAC 98 - Spurs 85
Make that 3-7 for the Spurs in the second game of b2b's with the 2nd game being on the road.

Pistons 7-4 in the same situation.

So are the Spurs wearing out as the reg season nears it's end?

I'll be generous and allow you to settle this matter with a simple confession that fatigue is certainly not more of a factor for the Pistons than it is for the Spurs.

[Darrin]

Wow, these pistons fans are a little overconfident. Last I checked, your team LOST in SA Game 7.

So maybe you should start caring more about HCA...

This fan does want it, and think it would significantly increase the probability the Pistons will win the NBA Championship. But it's not like this team can't win on the road.

The Pistons have not had home-court advantage for the last two Conference Finals and NBA Finals. In those series, they are 15-10, with 3 series wins. In those series, they have won games in every city - Indiana (2), Los Angeles (1), Miami (2), and San Antonio (1).

-They won their first game in Los Angeles since 1997 in game one of the 2004 NBA Finals.
- They won their first game in San Antonio since 1997 in game six of the 2005 NBA Finals, an elimination game.
- They snapped the Indiana Pacers' 10-game playoff home winning streak in Game 2 of the 2004 Eastern Conference Finals.
- They won game 5 of the 2004 Conference Finals behind Rip Hamilton's playoff career-high 33 points that put the Pacers on the brink of elimination.

And the mother of them all...

- They won the franchise's first game seven on the road...ever in the 2005 Conference Finals. Even the Bad Boys - the '87 Conference Finals vs. the Celtics, the '88 NBA Finals vs. the Lakers - never won a game seven on the road.

I thought that their fatigue last season came from having to gear up on the road for too many wins. I want them badly to keep the Spurs and Mavs at bay. But if it doesn't happen, it's not like I'm going to stop watching the playoffs because there's no chance they'll win it.

[Sense]

Update-(13)
Puncuation mark! LAC 98 - Spurs 85
Make that 3-7 for the Spurs in the second game of b2b's with the 2nd game being on the road.

Pistons 7-4 in the same situation.

So are the Spurs wearing out as the reg season nears it's end?

I'll be generous and allow you to settle this matter with a simple confession that fatigue is certainly not more of a factor for the Pistons than it is for the Spurs.

Good thing the playoffs aren't back to back eh?

[Tanya]

Good thing the playoffs aren't back to back eh?

Yeah right.
After the lakers beat the spurs, you previous post sounds a little bit stupid. The pistons have played 8 games in 12 days since back from All star break. 3 sets of back to back. 5 road games. ANY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE INCLUDING SA can't manage to come out with 8-0. The spurs are deep enough, so how come they couldn't beat the lakers? Do their starters play too much mins?
I am sorry I always respect the spurs. But you made me laugh by saying you think the pistons won't win this year because they play the starters too much in the regular season.
Ok~ I can't prove it to you yet. So we will see later.

[jochhejaam]

Good thing the playoffs aren't back to back eh?

I believe you're the one that brought up this fatigue issue even though the loss was on the back end of a b2b.

[jochhejaam]

Yeah right.
After the lakers beat the spurs, you previous post sounds a little bit stupid. The pistons have played 8 games in 12 days since back from All star break. 3 sets of back to back. 5 road games. ANY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE INCLUDING SA can't manage to come out with 8-0. The spurs are deep enough, so how come they couldn't beat the lakers? Do their starters play too much mins?
I am sorry I always respect the spurs. But you made me laugh by saying you think the pistons won't win this year because they play the starters too much in the regular season.
Ok~ I can't prove it to you yet. So we will see later.

Can someone call Tanya and tell her to edit this to "After the Clippers beat the Spurs" before Sense sees this?