Sunday Times: Saddam ‘bought UN allies’ with oil

[Marcus Bryant]

Actually your moral equivocation of the United States and Iraq is supremely entertaining.

[exstatic]

Actually your moral equivocation of the United States and Iraq is supremely entertaining.

As is your evasion of my point. There was no moral comparision, just a comparsion of their regard for the UN, which in both cases is apparently zero, based strictly on their actions.

[Yonivore]

"It's funny how when the UN is being flouted by Saddam, it's a terrible thing,..."

It is, and it's made worse when the Secretary General of the U.N., and the Nations of France, Germany, and Russia are complicit in that "flouting."

"...but when we have our own agenda and they are in the way, the UN is an incompetent bunch of fools,..."

I believe the word used was "irrelevant."

"...until we want to extricate ourselves from the Iraq mess by bringing in international troops, that is."

I don't see the President's insistence that the U.N. -- and it's membership -- has an obligation in Iraq to be a sign he wants to "extricate" the U.S. from the situation. He's trying to get more countries on the right side of the argument.

"Talk about flip-flopping..."

None of the cir stances you mention preclude the U.N. from being incompetent. Nor are any of them mutually exclusive or inconsistent with the others.

[Marcus Bryant]

As is your evasion of my point. There was no moral comparision, just a comparsion of their regard for the UN, which in both cases is apparently zero, based strictly on their actions.

I evaded nothing. You implied that the US and Iraqi disregard for the United States were similiar, which they were not. Hussein disregarded UN resolution after UN resolution including the one he agreed to which ended the original Gulf War. The United States was not under any obligation to get UN approval for the invasion.

And again, if you say that the United States and Hussein's government were not morally similiar, then your point, while cute, is utterly lacking of any real significance.

Man, I hope Kerry gets elected and you get to marry your boyfriend or whatever has you so willing to slip into the bounds of absurdity to bash Bush.

[whottt]

Uh, actually, I never said that. What I said was that soldiers are moved from one career field to another all of the time. That is NEVER done without proper training, fool, nor were the French secretly hiding US troops after WWII.

I never said they were secretly hiding US troops after WWII. I said they held Americans and Brits in interrment camps(the same camps in which they held jews for the Germans) long after WWII.

Before assuming I am just talking out of my ass on this subject why don't you do some research...again the presumption on your part says more about your arrogance and ignorance than it does anything else.

And what's really stupid is you acting like just anyone that's in the millitary can be trained for special forces...Trust me, scoring a 19 on the AVSAB, like you probably did, is not going to cut it.

Are those Black Helicopters hovering over your house depriving you of needed sleep? I always know when you've been served. You change the subject to something not relavent to the thread.

I haven't been served...you are ignorant of the history of WWII and think you know it, when you don't.

And I don't see any black helicopters hovering over my house...but you might ask the people who think Bush and Chaney blew up the World Trade Center to justify going into Iraq, if they see them.

[whottt]

Bottom line is that the UN, and those that vetoed the war are as corrupt, and partisan, in this Iraq affair as anything the Bush administration has been accused of...

But what's scary is that ing Kerry thinks these guys are altrusitic and to be emulated...we should be seeking their approval. They are our friends and have our best interests at heart...Only an idiot can't see that their hatred of us is much more deeply rooted than anything Bush could have done in the past few years...They don't like our power, and they would not mind seeing us taken down.

At worst, I'd rather have a greedy, warmongering, but patriotic asshole running the country then a total naive ing fool, which is what Kerry is.

Having a liberal foreign policy in this environment is like trying to clap with one hand...there's nothing on the other side to clap with...

[exstatic]

It is, and it's made worse when the Secretary General of the U.N., and the Nations of France, Germany, and Russia are complicit in that "flouting."

How can the Secretary General of the UN flout the UN?

I don't see the President's insistence that the U.N. -- and it's membership -- has an obligation in Iraq to be a sign he wants to "extricate" the U.S. from the situation. He's trying to get more countries on the right side of the argument.

The only problem is that the obligation is NOT the UN's, it's ours since we were bound and determined to "go it alone". We shouldn't be expecting the UN to take us off of this hook when we weren't willing to listen to them.

[whottt]

It's funny how when the UN is being flouted by Saddam, it's a terrible thing, but when we have our own agenda and they are in the way, the UN is an incompetent bunch of fools, until we want to extricate ourselves from the Iraq mess by bringing in international troops, that is.

Talk about flip-flopping...

We wanted the UN to be with us in the first place, which pretty much destroyed the BS that this war is just for Oil....we tried to make it a mulilateral process...where have you been?

It's not like we tried to exclude their participation in this process. We always wanted their help...and since they have done nothing but about atrocities since the beginning of this war, why don't they get their asses in there and do something about it rather than just ing about it.

[whottt]

How can the Secretary General of the UN flout the UN?



The only problem is that the obligation is NOT the UN's, it's ours since we were bound and determined to "go it alone". We shouldn't be expecting the UN to take us off of this hook when we weren't willing to listen to them.

Then they need to shut the up about the atrocities and calling this an illegal war if they aren't willing to do anything about it...Either way the UN proves how irrelevant it is.

You do realize that part of the hate in the Muslim World that Osama tapped was the suffering of the Iraquis under the UN Sanctions right?


Sanctions that Bill Clinton was #1 in maintaining...Sanctions that it seems France, Germany and Russia didn't mind seeing continue indefinitely....I wonder why.

These actions by the UN are just as corrupt as anything America has been accused of doing. Too bad the terrorists didn't take out the ing UN building instead of the World Trade Center...the world would probably be a better place right now.