Bj Armstrong gets my "Huh?" award for today.

[ambchang]

I read a bunch of BJ's replies on ESPN, and it's almost comical how he tried to sound zen in all his replies. Oh well, I suppose he thinks it makes him sound intelligent by throwing rhetorical questions.

[ca®lo]

Finally someone other than me notices this! Too bad BJ miffed the response by being an idiot and not admitting to it. The most recent and obvious example is Duncan's clear-out of Mike Bibby (although I think Barry would have still had enough time to get off a clean shot otherwise). If you look at every game of the Western Conference Finals (especially 4th qtr of game 5), then you will see that almost everytime Duncan sets a screen, he is moving and I think he only got whistled once the entire series. People complain that the Suns set moving screens and I'll admit it when they do, but they often do not clear out the smaller defender and continue riding him into the post like Duncan does - and his ability to do it has grown as he's gotten older and slower over the years... the refs just allow it.

Last year, Amare would move, but he would also immediately roll to the basket and not continue to ride the defender the whole way. This year, Kurt Thomas has gotten called for a lot of moving screens and I'm still waiting for the moment when Duncan gets called for it at a crucial moment in the playoffs (my guess is never because he'll just stand there, stare at the refs, or complain heavily until Pop starts complaining as well and then the official will be too intimidated to make the call again).

I'm just asking for a fair shake because it makes it a lot easier for the Spurs to close out games when Duncan can keep moving on screens and Ginobili can keep flopping and fooling the refs.

u lost. get over it.

[wildbill2u]

One of the reasons Manu is so hard to guard is that most players are righties and go right almost all the time--just like Manu goes left most of the time--and therefore most players defend against the right handers move out of conditioned reflex and habit, giving lefties like Manu something of a small edge.

You'll note that Beno, not the fastest guy around, often gets by his man because of that edge as well.

[v2freak]

All of these comments that Manu isn't the same as other top SGs because he doesn't shoot as much are ridiculous to me. I count a trip to the FT line as a shot attempt because it's a used posession*. Going by this, Manu shoots a lot. The generalization is that guys like Kobe, Carter and Pierce all shoot a lot (and on some nights they really do) but there are other differences too.

*Anyone else have a beef with this? You get fouled and if you put up a shot you might make it and get a 3 point play. If you miss, it doesn't count as a FGA. What's up with that?

[RonMexico]

u lost. get over it.

great, lucid response...

[Scobe]

Manu is extremely athletic and extremely gifted as a ball handler and finisher. Who gives a about jumping ability. Some of the best jumpers in the NBA are scrubs as basketball players, and if jumping ability is what you use to rank players then get your ignorant ass over to "streetball" or some bull like that and leave REAL basketball to REAL fans.

[Scobe]

great, lucid response...

Here's a lucid response for you:

Please stop complaining about last year's playoffs. Your team got beaten 4 games to 1, and the only reason is was not a sweep is because the Spurs wanted to get in an extra game before having to wait a week for Detroit. Duncan's screens and bad officiating did not cause your team to lose. An extremely flawed system in which the only thing that matters is running the court and jacking up threes is what caused your team to lose. No D = No Championship, but for some reason D'Antoni does not want to accept that fact and still keeps with the street ball style.

[SequSpur]

LMAO, Manu is not even close to a Kobe. Manu can't even play 2 games in the same week without sitting out crying. Give me a break.

[RonMexico]

Here's a lucid response for you:

Please stop complaining about last year's playoffs. Your team got beaten 4 games to 1, and the only reason is was not a sweep is because the Spurs wanted to get in an extra game before having to wait a week for Detroit. Duncan's screens and bad officiating did not cause your team to lose. An extremely flawed system in which the only thing that matters is running the court and jacking up threes is what caused your team to lose. No D = No Championship, but for some reason D'Antoni does not want to accept that fact and still keeps with the street ball style.

You're an idiot, as well, so I'll make this simple. As soon as Joe Johnson came back, the Suns won game 4 because he dominated Bruce Bowen (please see the box score). Also, the amount of fans that complained about Amare's block on Duncan's dunk removes creedence from your comment that they were "phoning it in" and that you guys were OK with that. Lastly, Amare dominated Duncan in the 4th quarter offensively, did not get the amount of calls he deserved, and Duncan goaltended one of his shots that would have put the Suns down by 1, instead of spurring the break that put you guys up by 5 with under a minute to go. No doubt the Suns would probably have lost game 6 in SA, but it would have made it more of a series.

Also, it's hard to play defense when Duncan gets all the calls and actually hits free throws for once (game 3 in particular), and the refs buy into Ginobili's 3-steps then flop charade because the games are "higher tension." Suns would have lost the series anyways, and all games were close, but they had a difficult time with Choke Richardson and an injured Joe Johnson in the backcourt because last year's bench was worthless at best. If you don't believe me, my roommate is a die-hard Spurs fan and we have the entire WCF burned on CD, which we've consulted many times to confirm a lot of what I have said.

Also, for those of you that say the Suns don't play D, please get an ESPN insider membership and read John Hollinger's stats, where he states (before the injury to Kurt Thomas) that the Suns were playing better defense than the Pistons, while the Pistons were putting up more efficient offensive numbers (when adjustments were made for number of possesions per game). The Suns front line is more than depleted this year and the lack of defensive prowess since Kurt Thomas went down is evident to close out the season.

[Scobe]

You're an idiot, as well, so I'll make this simple. As soon as Joe Johnson came back, the Suns won game 4 because he dominated Bruce Bowen (please see the box score). Also, the amount of fans that complained about Amare's block on Duncan's dunk removes creedence from your comment that they were "phoning it in" and that you guys were OK with that. Lastly, Amare dominated Duncan in the 4th quarter offensively, did not get the amount of calls he deserved, and Duncan goaltended one of his shots that would have put the Suns down by 1, instead of spurring the break that put you guys up by 5 with under a minute to go. No doubt the Suns would probably have lost game 6 in SA, but it would have made it more of a series.

Also, it's hard to play defense when Duncan gets all the calls and actually hits free throws for once (game 3 in particular), and the refs buy into Ginobili's 3-steps then flop charade because the games are "higher tension." Suns would have lost the series anyways, and all games were close, but they had a difficult time with Choke Richardson and an injured Joe Johnson in the backcourt because last year's bench was worthless at best. If you don't believe me, my roommate is a die-hard Spurs fan and we have the entire WCF burned on CD, which we've consulted many times to confirm a lot of what I have said.

Also, for those of you that say the Suns don't play D, please get an ESPN insider membership and read John Hollinger's stats, where he states (before the injury to Kurt Thomas) that the Suns were playing better defense than the Pistons, while the Pistons were putting up more efficient offensive numbers (when adjustments were made for number of possesions per game). The Suns front line is more than depleted this year and the lack of defensive prowess since Kurt Thomas went down is evident to close out the season.

Damn, you are such a that you will whine and cry about every ing thing just to make your weak ass team look better. Amare didn't get constantly fouled. The Spurs didnt even show up for game 4 because they already had 3 in the bag. And what happened in game 5? Your team got beaten again. And you are ing about goaltended shots? You are nothing but a whiny cry baby. So

[Scobe]

LMAO, Manu is not even close to a Kobe. Manu can't even play 2 games in the same week without sitting out crying. Give me a break.

With kobe you inadvertantly bump him and he goes Artest on you and tries to elbow your throat. What a puss.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I actually thought BJ's response to the Manu question was reasonable. Yes he is a star, yes he is a basketball genius, but no he ain't Kobe (and I HATE Kobe, but he is a more physically talented bala). What really seperates Manu is his instincts - he reads the game a second or two before it happens, and that sets him apart. That and his absolute lack of fear.

As for not being able to go right, that's complete BS. Does he go left more than right? Yes. Does that mean he doesn't have a right hand? No freakin way! You see it all the time. Try watching a bit closer.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

"*Anyone else have a beef with this? You get fouled and if you put up a shot you might make it and get a 3 point play. If you miss, it doesn't count as a FGA. What's up with that?"

Yes, I have a problem with that. I am going up for a putback and my opposite no. takes out both my arms before I'm anywhere near the rim. I go to the line, but you want to count that as a shot. That's a missed shot? No it isn't.

The only fouls that should then be counted as shots are touch fouls, but then how you define "touch foul"? You can't, so you have to be categorical and say that fouls don't count as shots unless they go in. Fair enough.

[Blobit]

who's manu? is he as good as sean may?

[RonMexico]

who's manu? is he as good as sean may?

haha - almost as good

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

@the Manu homerism. And not even one Argentinian or member of the church has posted in here yet.

Manu is good, he is a borderline superstar in the playoffs, but, he is more of a Robert Horry kind of player. His game raises dramatically in the playoffs, all his positive stats raise, and all the negatives (TO, Missed FG) decrease.

He can't play with consistency in an 82 games season, because of his playing style, which brings him many injuries. Also his style isn't the style of a shooter, or superstar, if his shot ain't falling, he will pass the ball and not force the issue.

Also, he needs to feel motivated sometimes (in his partcipation in the Rookie vs. Sophmore All Star Game, he said that he didn't like it because it was more of a dunk contest than a game, and nobody bothered to play defense).

Manu is more a Scottie Pippen kind of player. A borderline superstar, but he is a team player. So it could be said that he is a mix between a star and a role player, which is exactly what the Spurs need from him.

Being a borderline star, or a role star player, it is better than being a superstar sometimes. Just look at some "stars" like Gilbert Arenas or Vince Carter. He also brings something different than other almost-star players, like Kenyon Martin, which is his at ude.

[NCaliSpurs]

Haha.

I like it how my "can't even go right" sparked so much hate.

It was made partially tongue in cheek, but you guys are so sensitive about our Argentinian Jesus.

As I stated later, he CAN go right, but the majority of his drives are to the left. The supermajority of his drives are to the left. It is the weakest part of his game, as it is completely predictable. Nevertheless, it hasn't been solved, and it probably won't be, as he is so god damned crafty with his dribble and change of pace.

[ambchang]

You're an idiot, as well, so I'll make this simple. As soon as Joe Johnson came back, the Suns won game 4 because he dominated Bruce Bowen (please see the box score).

He sure did, Joe Johnson then got back down to earth in Game 5. Can you say lack of preperation? Or maybe Joe Johnson was healthy in game 4, then suddenly hurt again in game 5? Or maybe the refs were helping out the Spurs again? Just thought I might put in a bunch of excuses for you ahead of time.

Also, the amount of fans that complained about Amare's block on Duncan's dunk removes creedence from your comment that they were "phoning it in" and that you guys were OK with that.

Didn't read past posts, won't comment.

Lastly, Amare dominated Duncan in the 4th quarter offensively, did not get the amount of calls he deserved, and Duncan goaltended one of his shots that would have put the Suns down by 1, instead of spurring the break that put you guys up by 5 with under a minute to go. No doubt the Suns would probably have lost game 6 in SA, but it would have made it more of a series.

The Suns lost by 7 points, 3 points, 10 points and 6 points in those 4 games, just want to let you know that one possession is worth 2 or 3 points, 4 points in very rare occasions.

Also, it's hard to play defense when Duncan gets all the calls and actually hits free throws for once (game 3 in particular), and the refs buy into Ginobili's 3-steps then flop charade because the games are "higher tension." Suns would have lost the series anyways, and all games were close, but they had a difficult time with Choke Richardson and an injured Joe Johnson in the backcourt because last year's bench was worthless at best. If you don't believe me, my roommate is a die-hard Spurs fan and we have the entire WCF burned on CD, which we've consulted many times to confirm a lot of what I have said.

My 2 uncles and 5 of my cousins confirmed that that is not true. Who the made you and your roommate the cruel governor of basketball correctness?

Also, for those of you that say the Suns don't play D, please get an ESPN insider membership and read John Hollinger's stats, where he states (before the injury to Kurt Thomas) that the Suns were playing better defense than the Pistons, while the Pistons were putting up more efficient offensive numbers (when adjustments were made for number of possesions per game). The Suns front line is more than depleted this year and the lack of defensive prowess since Kurt Thomas went down is evident to close out the season.

For every John Hollinger Stat, there are legions of writers contending otherwise, can't just take what works in your favour and ignore everybody else.

BTW, in the spirit of sticking to the subject. Manu is a role player that can pick up his game during pressure moments. Kinda like a pre-injured Andrew Toney.

[RonMexico]

ambchang, you tried, but I remember when .4 seconds and two points determined an entire series... a lot of what I'm discussing is momentum

Joe had 14 pts, 4 rebounds and 4 assists with 50% 3pt shooting in game 5 - not "down to earth" especially when Amare has 42 and 16...

also, when i say that with under a minute left, a single play was the difference between 1 point and 5 points, and then you begin shooting free throws, then obviously the games might end with a 6-point or more differential... especially when TD is shooting FTs out of his mind (when ABC/ESPN have graphics about such things, it's easy to remember that he usually doesn't shoot 14-15 in a game). Six point-plus differentials occur when the Suns start jacking 3-pters with under a minute to go (a philosophy I don't agree with, but one they used too often in late-game situations). Ironic that the AP article of that game said that a "crucial" tap-in by Tim Duncan made it a 5-point game and held off a Suns rally...

I'm just saying there are a lot of small plays that add up to an overall victory - and a lot the Spurs get away with despite their complaining sometimes about foul calls (i.e. Duncan screaming at the official and making a blocking gesture with his arms when he obviously traveled).

[DarkReign]

Manu != Kobe/Carter/etc

Manu > 99% of the league in Playoffs.

Which would you rather have?

From a guy who watched him single-handedly win Game 7 in crunch time in the NBA Finals, I need to see no more to know what Manu is.

Manu = Clutch

[austinfan]

Manu's an adrenaline junkie, like EMTs or fighter pilots or standup comics. He needs the high-pressure situation to sharpen his edge and bring out the best in him.

[leemajors]

ambchang, you tried, but I remember when .4 seconds and two points determined an entire series... a lot of what I'm discussing is momentum

Joe had 14 pts, 4 rebounds and 4 assists with 50% 3pt shooting in game 5 - not "down to earth" especially when Amare has 42 and 16...

also, when i say that with under a minute left, a single play was the difference between 1 point and 5 points, and then you begin shooting free throws, then obviously the games might end with a 6-point or more differential... especially when TD is shooting FTs out of his mind (when ABC/ESPN have graphics about such things, it's easy to remember that he usually doesn't shoot 14-15 in a game). Six point-plus differentials occur when the Suns start jacking 3-pters with under a minute to go (a philosophy I don't agree with, but one they used too often in late-game situations). Ironic that the AP article of that game said that a "crucial" tap-in by Tim Duncan made it a 5-point game and held off a Suns rally...

I'm just saying there are a lot of small plays that add up to an overall victory - and a lot the Spurs get away with despite their complaining sometimes about foul calls (i.e. Duncan screaming at the official and making a blocking gesture with his arms when he obviously traveled).

give up, suns got run in their own style. amare had a monster series, and it wasn't enough.

[Spurs#20]

All I have to say is this: Who took over the finals last year?wasn't it Manu?

[ambchang]

ambchang, you tried, but I remember when .4 seconds and two points determined an entire series... a lot of what I'm discussing is momentum

.4 seconds was a ONE possession game, the Lakers did not win by 10 points, 3 points, 7 points and 6 points. .4 seconds was DRAMATIC, it changed the series in a way where it allowed the Lakers to win game 6 at home. The Lakers have figured out how to play the Spurs, and it was to pack it in and force them to shoot jumpers, which they couldn't. You can just as easily say that the Stoudemire block on Duncan was a series changing play, but you can't, beucase the Suns lost.

Joe had 14 pts, 4 rebounds and 4 assists with 50% 3pt shooting in game 5 - not "down to earth" especially when Amare has 42 and 16...

Way to be selective in your stats. He shot 6/17, and 2/4 on 3s. And For a guy who scores 17/5/3.5 in the regular season, 14/4/4 is not coming down to earth, it went slightly below it.

also, when i say that with under a minute left, a single play was the difference between 1 point and 5 points, and then you begin shooting free throws, then obviously the games might end with a 6-point or more differential... especially when TD is shooting FTs out of his mind (when ABC/ESPN have graphics about such things, it's easy to remember that he usually doesn't shoot 14-15 in a game). Six point-plus differentials occur when the Suns start jacking 3-pters with under a minute to go (a philosophy I don't agree with, but one they used too often in late-game situations). Ironic that the AP article of that game said that a "crucial" tap-in by Tim Duncan made it a 5-point game and held off a Suns rally...

You can also say that a single play at the beginning of the game could be the difference between a 30 point win and a 30 point loss, so what? I can't see into parallel universes and see what could have/would have happened if the refs called teh game differently. You make it sound like the Suns get teh short end of the stick every single game, and the Spurs gets preferential treatment throughout the series, which is simply untrue.
Even IF it was true, championship plays through adversity, the Suns can't, and instead you refused to admit that they lost to a superior team. This is just sad.
I am not going to, and I am not able to argue with you about what would have happened if the refs called ever single play as you would have wanted. Because, first, it's unlikely, because referees cannot call plays through the eyes of a biased fan, or else they would have been fired a long time ago, and two, I can see the present, and to some degree, the past.

I'm just saying there are a lot of small plays that add up to an overall victory - and a lot the Spurs get away with despite their complaining sometimes about foul calls (i.e. Duncan screaming at the official and making a blocking gesture with his arms when he obviously traveled).

You trying to say that the Suns NEVER had a call called in their favour? The Spurs have every single play called in their favour? Or are you just trying to claim that the Spurs have MORE calls go for them? If you, you would have to go through all 5 games and do ent it play by play.
And guess what? The Spurs are able to capitalize on the favouralbe calls, Suns can't.
Also, let us break down the FTA per game.
Game 1: Spurs 31, Suns 29
game 2: Spurs 21, Suns 17
Gmae 3: Spurs 30, Suns 15
Game 4: Spurs 23, Suns 16
Game 5: Spurs 16, Suns 17.
Other than game 3, there simply was not a significant difference between the two teams. Keep in mind that the Suns were, as you suggested, fouling on purpose in the last second, and that the Spurs are an inside team, while the Suns are a perimeter team, it looks to me that the Suns got a fair shake. , I am starting to think why did the Spurs not shoot 10 more FT per games than the Suns did.

[ambchang]

BTW, I am not even so sure what we are arguing about. Are you saying that the Suns lost the series because of bad calls? Are you saying the Suns lost one game because of a bad call? Are you saying the Suns get less calls than the Spurs? Please let me know.