In Manu's Last 5 Playoff Road Games ...

[MI21]

Interesting timvp.

For comparison, here are the stats of the other 2 members of the "Big 3" in those same 5 games. Without looking at the stats, I would think they aren't going to be to much greater than Manu's, because the whole team has struggled the last 5 road games.

Tim Duncan

PPG - 20.4
FG% - 45.9%
FT% - 57.8%
RPG - 13.0
APG - 2.4

Tony Parker

PPG - 16.2
FG% - 45.4%
FT% - 68.7%
RPG - 2.0
APG - 3.6

Tim has been decent, considering some of the opposition and injuries. 20/13 is never bad. Tony has been very average, not doing anything but scoring at a reasonable FG%.

The Spurs starting guards must lift there game to improve that 1-4 record over the last 5 road playoff games.

[Bruno]

Is it a fluke or is Manu just able to play better in front of the home fans in the playoffs for whatever reason?

It's a fluke.

Now look at this 10 games :

GM3 @ Detroit : 7 pts (FG : 2/6) : Bad game, Manu was slighty injured and Detroit was focused on Manu after his 2 great games at SA.
GM4 @ Detroit : 12 pts (FG : 4/9) : Not a good dame, I don't know if it's because of his injury but it was a blowout and Spurs have been outplayed
GM5 @ Detroit : 15 pts (FG : 5/16) : Good game by Manu, maybe his injury bothered him less. His shoot was off (0/4 form downtown) but 6 rebounds and 9 assists is damn good.
GM6 vs Detroit : 21 pts (FG : 7/17) : Good game even if his shoot was off.
GM7 vs Detroit : 23 pts (FG : 8/13) : Great game

GM1 vs Sacramento : 10 pts (FG : 5/10) : Not a great game by Manu at home, Artest has given him some troubles.
GM2 vs Sacramento : 32 pts (FG : 10/20) : Great game by Manu but Artest was out.
GM3 @ Sacramento : 8 pts (FG : 3/9) : Manu owned by Artest
GM4 @ Sacramento : 3 pts (FG : 1/4) : Manu owned by his turnover and by Artest.
GM5 vs Sacramento : 27 pts (FG : 9/14) : Great game despite Artest.

What's the point of this summary ?
It's to prove that the difference between home games and road games depend on facts that aren't related with that.
On his 5 games on the road, Manu has played two with a injury, one were his shoot was off, one were Artest owned him and one were he wasn't mentaly ready.
On his 5 games at home, Manu has been healthy for all of them and has played one without a strong defense (Piston defense or Artest).


Excuses or reasons ?

Reasons for me.
First you have notice that it's not true during the regular season. Even if Playoff aren't regular season, it's still a clue.
Second, 10 games isn't enough to determine a trend.
Third, Now Just look at the 3 first round of the 2005 playoff campaign. It's 16 games, 8 at home and 8 on the road :
Manu on the road : 20.9pts, 46.2% FG
Manu at home : 22.6pts, 56.7% FG
10% FG can seem to be a lot but 46.2% isn't bad and stats on 8 games can fluctuate a lot with one or two bad/good shooting game. It's logical too for a player to have better stats @ home than on the road.

To conclude, don't forget that Manu has played some years with a top team in Europe. An arena in Greece or Turkey is way more hostile than a nba arena (even Auburn Hill and ARCO one's).

[ShoogarBear]

[AHF]It was Tony Parkers fault[/AHF]

If TP had these road-home splits, people would be saying he's mentally weak and spending too much time with Eva and we should bench him on the road and start Beno.

[Rick Von Braun]

In Manu's last five playoff road games, he's averaging 8.9 points per game on 34.1% shooting from the field. In has last five home games, he's averaging 22.4 points per game on 52.7% shooting from the floor.

In the regular season, Manu was actually better on the road than at home. 15.7 points on 48.2% shooting from the field (47.3% from beyond the arc) on the road compared to 14.5 points per game on 44.2% shooting from the field (28.6% from beyond the arc) at home.

Is it a fluke or is Manu just able to play better in front of the home fans in the playoffs for whatever reason?

Your sample size is very small. You simply took the 3 Pistons games from 1 year ago, where the Spurs lost badly in 2 of them and the 2 losses against Sacto this year. Except for game 5 vs the Pistons where he played well, all the other games he had poor performances.

Consider all performances of last year's playoffs, and compare home and road. You may get a different result and be surprised.

[polandprzem]

Then how did he play so well in the home games?

When you get the injury it is not for the rest of your life.

Bruno posted it better.

[Nikos]

To be fair I think Ginobili was solid in Game 5 of the finals. He had 9 assists if I remember correctly and had a very nice first half with Tony to help set the tone for the game. (Remember when Horry missed 3 straight open layups -- yes open).

But I agree he was bad in Game 3 and 4, and he probably is weaker on the road. I do remember him doing well on the road vs Denver however, and also Phoenix. But against Seattle he wasn't too good on the road.

It probably isn't a fluke. He likely is a consistently better player at home. But it all depends how you look at it. Teams in general are better at home, so on average the opposition is going to be weaker. Maybe it is a fluke that Manu takes such a huge drop, maybe not. But it does seem like he has more energy in SA, and it seems like he makes more of the little plays. But I think he is capable of doing real well on the road from time to time.

[ShoogarBear]

In general ALL players are worse on the road than at home. Otherwise, team records at home wouldn't be so much better, right?

So the real question, for any player, is whether the dropoff on the road is more significant for them than it is for the average player. This is very tough to prove, but my gestalt is that Manu isn't a road sissy.

[boutons_]

   Boxscores-Lineups(Jun 19 2005 10:16PM)
   
  FINALS (Game 5)
   
   SAN ANTONIO (96)
   
                             fg    ft    rb             
                      min   m-a   m-a   o-t   a  pf   tp
   B Bowen             44   4-8   0-0   0-5   3   4   10
   T Duncan            48 11-24  4-11  8-19   2   3   26
   N Mohammed          26   3-4   0-0   1-3   0   3    6
   E Ginobili          44  5-16   5-5   3-6   9   4   15
   T Parker            45  7-15   0-0   1-2   3   4   14
   B Barry             22   1-3   0-0   1-2   0   3    3
   R Horry             32  7-12   2-3   5-7   2   5   21
   D Brown              4   0-0   1-2   0-1   1   0    1
 
   _____________________________________________________
   TOTALS             265 38-82 12-21 19-45  20  26   96

WTF is wrong with 15-9, including the game winning AST to Robert?

This thread sucks.

[nkdlunch]

Players play better at home? NOOOO really???

[Athenea]

Then how did he play so well in the home games?

He got injured in min 1 of Game 3 @Det. Then came Game 4 @Detroit also. Game 5 he was still hurting but slowly improving. Game 6 he played too sloppy and made costly plays.
Game 7, he did great.
Can someone pliz tell me why choose such a small sample?

[vanvannen]

Because it helped his cause.

[Athenea]

This is very tough to prove, but my gestalt is that Manu isn't a road sissy.

And I think that's the point MR TimVP was trying to prove .

[MI21]

I think people are completely missing the point of this thread. timvp is just pointing out this rather weird set of games and questioning why.

I don't think he is having a go at Manu, god forbid if he was.

[Spurologist]

In Manu's last five playoff road games, he's averaging 8.9 points per game on 34.1% shooting from the field. In has last five home games, he's averaging 22.4 points per game on 52.7% shooting from the floor.

In the regular season, Manu was actually better on the road than at home. 15.7 points on 48.2% shooting from the field (47.3% from beyond the arc) on the road compared to 14.5 points per game on 44.2% shooting from the field (28.6% from beyond the arc) at home.

Is it a fluke or is Manu just able to play better in front of the home fans in the playoffs for whatever reason?

Things change. Case and point: Manu GAME 6

[Jimcs50]

I think Manu will have a great road game at Arco and Bonzi will have his worst game. Just a feeling I have...no real reason for this statement.

[ShoogarBear]

no real reason for this statement.

Unlike your usual careful research and precision logic?

[1Parker1]

Unlike your usual careful research and precision logic?

Quick, Where's that thread with you two debating the Las Vegas odds of the Spurs winning it all vs the Pistons?

[2centsworth]

Tim shot 10-30 in Game 7 last year and I thought he played great. sometimes FG% doesn't tell the whole story.

Nevertheless, Manu's struggles have been a combo of things.

1. He took a knee in game 3 against detroit which I thought slowed him down.
2. The team hasn't played well in most of those games.
3. Artest shut him down in game 3 of this series and game 4 it was in his head.

If the team plays well in game 6 then I think Manu will too. Manu doesn't have Lebron James, Kobe talent to put a team on his back on the road. He can do it at home because of the energy of the crowd. On the road he needs help.

[boutons_]

Can the Spurs win this elimination game on the road?

A huge test of Spurs' road warrior-ness extending to the playoffs.

As the stakes get higher, I get more tense.

I don't understand why a guy who was second in voting for Finals MVP is being questioned? Some people must be really bored between games.

[Spurminator]

Wasn't Manu injured in Game 2 or 3 last year? I thought I remembered that affecting his movement for a portion of that series.

Anyway, what happens when you expand your sample to include the other road Playoff games last year?

[boutons_]

Manu got kneed just above the knee, IIRC, of first play of Game3, which resulted in a Spurs' TO and Pistons starting the game with a fastbreak score, foreshadowing two disastrous games for the Spurs.

[NCaliSpurs]

Question.

Why does Manu get the free pass with the "injury" card?

Besides, Manu is awesome when it counts, regardless of home or road, or if he is having a bad or good game to that point.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Question.

Why does Manu get the free pass with the "injury" card?

Besides, Manu is awesome when it counts, regardless of home or road, or if he is having a bad or good game to that point.

injury card?? what, you don't think a player can be injured??

[Kori Ellis]

And I think that's the point MR TimVP was trying to prove .

timvp thinks Manu is God, so I don't think that's the point.

But thanks for your y rolling of your eyes, like always.

[1Parker1]

I thought Timvp thinks NVE is God