Spurs vs. Mavs: The Chess Match

[ShoogarBear]

I actually like a modified version of 1. Bsically the strategy would be to let Dirk get his but don't let anybody else beat you, similar to what we did with Amare last year. In fact, it has an even better chance of success with all the isolation Dallas runs. Dallas has already shown this year (against the Warriors) that they're capable of losing even if Dirk gets 50.

Dirk has been relatively well controlled in both games, and the Spurs are almost down 0-2. Nowitzki hasn't been the problem. Howard and Stackhouse and Harris have.

[mookie2001]

2. Play Small Ball
Pros: I hated small ball against the Kings, but against the Mavs it actually makes some sense. I don’t love it but it could be needed to try to stop Dallas. If you keep Bowen on Dirk, going small and putting Finley or Barry on Howard could be the answer. To be sure that Howard doesn’t go off, you might have to actually start the small ball lineup.
Cons: Small ball isn’t Spurs Basketball. Rebounding and blocked shots would suffer. Tim Duncan would be more likely to get into foul trouble.


4. Make them shoot
Pros: This version of the Mavs isn’t nearly as deadly from the outside as past versions. They have some good shooters but they aren’t loaded with great shooters like they used to be. The Spurs could theoretically play the same style of defense but just back off the shooters. Make players like Josh Howard and Devin Harris beat you with their shooting ability. By sagging in the lane, the Spurs could turn the Mavs into a jump shooting team.
Cons: This one is obvious. If the Mavs hit those shots, the Spurs would be in trouble. Howard is a much improved shooter and a player like Jason Terry could become deadly from the perimeter. With the Mavs being at home, this is risky because a few shots could get the arena rocking.

I strongly object
to me if you stop playing small ball, EVERY problem not referee related is solved

its like the 1st rule of basketball fundamentals; it enrages me

when duncan shoots (like the mavs are letting him do), he better make it because there is NO way any spur is getting a tip or rebound

and of course on d they cant buy a rebound either

but mostly its defense, a big part of bowens game is forcing guys to beat him right into a shotblocker, he gets his game limited too

but I agree 100% on letting those bas s shoot, they should back the off them when theyre on the perimeter, give the refs no chance to call a bull foul, and not let them get to the rim where another foul will promptly be called

[E20]

Excellent anaylsis.

[Solid D]

timvp, things are starting to blur a bit now.

Remember the Spurs win in March vs. Dallas? Bowen on Dirk, then Tim, then Manu, then Bruce again. They switched it up.

[timvp]

timvp, things are starting to blur a bit now.

Remember the Spurs win in March vs. Dallas? Bowen on Dirk, then Tim, then Manu, then Bruce again. They switched it up.

IIRC, Bruce always matched up with him but the Spurs were switching pick-and-rolls. That's how Dirk ended up on Manu and even Parker sometimes. The only way Bowen wasn't on him was if he was on the bench or it was in transition.

The Spurs weren't running different guys at him as the primary defender ... they were just switching everything. That'd go under the "switch on the pick-and-roll" strategy.

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure Bowen was always the primary defender that game. I'll take a look at that game to make sure.

[Solid D]

Okay. That's fine. If you look at the highlights here, you can see Timmy on Dirk and Manu on him. The Duncan ones don't really look like they came after switches.

http://www.nba.com/games/20060302/DALSAS/boxscore.html

Also, see CBS Sportsline commentary. I didn't see this prior to my intial comments but it seems to support the notion that Pop did "mix it up" a bit.
http://cbs.sportsline.com/columns/we...ry/3928/032006

Updated: Mar/03/2006 04:11 AM
Spurs big winners
San Antonio and Dallas put on a good show in one of the more highly anticipated games of the season. Maybe not as fun to watch as the Phoenix Suns or the impromptu dunk contest Denver sprung on Detroit the other night, but still, it had a playoff feel and was tight throughout.

These two meeting in the Western Conference Semis is inevitable, and the Spurs were the big winners on Thursday night in evening up the standings, but don’t fool yourself into thinking what you saw is going to repeat itself come mid-to-late May. Here, however, is what you can take out of the 98-89 result:

1. Bruce Bowen will be in Dirk Nowitzki’s nightmares for the next few months, and he’ll be in his shorts all series. Last year, the Rockets frustrated Nowitzki with Tracy McGrady and Phoenix went after him with Shawn Marion. Athleticism and tenacity can get the better of Nowitzki, and by employing Bowen despite the size disadvantage, Gregg Popovich played his best card. He also mixed things up by rotating Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili, so it’s clear his primary objective is to keep the Big German from getting off.
2. Robert Horry looked slow and rusty, especially early, yet he ended up being one of the Spurs more effective players. So what else is new? Horry has coasted through the regular season for years now and then emerged as a key figure when it counts. He did it again Thursday, and will do it again when these two meet. Gametime decision -- ha.

3. Nazr Mohammed is a far more effective post threat than Rasho Nesterovic, and it now becomes clear that his recent insertion into the starting lineup is meant to ensure Nowitzki has to work on the defensive end. The steady Mohammed had three offensive boards and played an effective game under the basket.

4. Even though Tim Duncan looks to be about 80 percent, he’s still remarkably effective. You almost wonder if the Spurs shouldn’t give him the next month off and hope that plantar fasciitis subsides some so he can be a little sharper. That, of course, is unlikely.

5. The Mavericks missed Devin Harris (thigh injury) greatly. The second-year guard is big and quick, and might be able to slow down Tony Parker some. Parker, like he’s done the entire year, held the fort down until the creaky legs warmed up. Jet Terry isn’t big enough to make too great an impact on the improved Parker, but perhaps Harris can. Doesn’t Parker’s running teardrop look like he’s delivering it while slipping on a wet floor?

6. Josh Howard showed no signs of nursing his recently sprained ankle and will have a huge impact on the series.

7. Michael Finley sees that Dallas’ uniform and treats it the way a bull does a red cape. He came out and delivered numerous big baskets and may end up being the x-factor in the Mavs’ elimination the way former teammate Steve Nash was last year for his new team.

8. Finally, the way it's shaping up, believe this series will go seven. San Antonio is typically unbeatable at home, yet was having trouble taking hold of the game despite the fact the Mavs' first nine 3-pointers. The Spurs know that’s not going to be a recurring theme, and they’re very aware how difficult a place Dallas’ American Airlines Center is to play at.

[J.T.]

I say go with #1. I have been saying before this series even started that the Amare Defense would beat the Mavs.

[A-Train]

timvp, things are starting to blur a bit now.

Remember the Spurs win in March vs. Dallas? Bowen on Dirk, then Tim, then Manu, then Bruce again. They switched it up.

What I remember is that Mohammed started and played 30 minutes. Rasho saw some time too.

[milkyway21]

Cons: Dirk could explode. You’d have to guard Dirk with either Horry or Duncan and that could get ugly. Dirk is explosive and is having his the best year of his career. You’d have to pencil in Dirk for 40 if the Spurs switch Bowen off of him.

2. Play Small Ball
Pros: I hated small ball against the Kings, but against the Mavs it actually makes some sense. I don’t love it but it could be needed to try to stop Dallas. If you keep Bowen on Dirk, going small and putting Finley or Barry on Howard could be the answer. To be sure that Howard doesn’t go off, you might have to actually start the small ball lineup.
Cons: Small ball isn’t Spurs Basketball. Rebounding and blocked shots would suffer. Tim Duncan would be more likely to get into foul trouble.

Horry is not the best option to guard Howard. Bowen is. So if Tim guards Dirk he'd likely be on early foul trouble. And that's scares me. If Tim will be in early foul trouble the Mavs could expode...

How about Horry on Dirk? Then late in the game have Tim switch roles.

just don't let Brent Barry guard Stackhouse he looked uncertain and lost in game 1, might happen again in game 3.

as for speedy Harris we need a faster player on him. Not Finley. Maybe TP?

Then we better keep Nazr off the floor. He doesn't know the basic defense, switching back and forth might cause his brain to explode

Through two games, the Spurs' "center" combination of Rasho Nesterovic and Nazr Mohammed has totaled one point in 23 minutes. So much for the tradition of twin towers in San Antonio.

so frustrating Nazr was kind of tentative. In the last playoffs he dominated in the offensive rbds. And I was amazed. Now he's nowhere to be found in that area.

[gospursgojas]

Option 1 would be the Spurs best bet....

Let Dirk get his, Howard will NOT be able to score against Bruce, and when he goes to the bench neither will Stack. With the rest tony hopfully will be able to guard Harris or Terry, and the same goes for Manu.

This would be like what the Spurs did against the Suns last year with Amare...

[CosmicCowboy]

LJ...you need to sticky this thread.

[FromWayDowntown]

It's just my opinion, but I think this group of Spurs plays screens best when, as Solid D mentioned, there's a long and hard show to hedge the ball coming over the top. Whether that creates a switch or just gives the ball defender a beat to catch up and trap the ball is a different question; I think the Spurs are at their defensive best when they don't switch screens. But, to me, that brings up the Spurs major defensive weakness, which is the inability of the guards to really fight through solid screens up high. I think Pop has gone to switching a lot in the last few seasons, mostly because he doesn't have a strong point guard (ala AJ) who is capable of fighting through the screen -- that, and missing David Robinson, who played screen and roll defense better than perhaps any big man in NBA history (certainly better than any big I've ever seen).

I think a major problem in both games so far has been that the Spurs indecision or lack of aggressiveness in playing defense through screens has created the need for wing defenders to sag into the lane to aid in stopping the ball. I don't have the benefit of having re-watched either game, but it appeared to me in Game 2 that on several occasions, particularly when Brent Barry was matched up with Stackhouse, he came into the middle to offer a hand with penetration and left Stackhouse alone in corners for unconstested 3's. That's a recipe for disaster. I think the solve to that is to go away from small ball -- to have a second big to defend the rack when a guard is able to exploit a problem with the defense on screens. At the same time, while it's useful for wings to sink a bit and help to defend the middle, I don't think you want to give great looks to guys who are hot from the arc. If you have a second big in the game, he can contest things at the rim by rotating while eliminating the need for the wings to commit to that kind of help.

And, as much as everyone wants to talk about Bowen moving to Howard or staying on Dirk, I thought the most curious move in Game 2 was the fact that Pop generally left Manu on Harris and put Parker on Terry. How much of that was the product of Tony's fatigue and injury and how much of that was a deliberate strategy by Pop arising from some other decision, I don't know. I do think, though, that Parker is a much more formidable matchup for Harris. If you can keep Harris out of the lane, a lot that went well for Dallas in Game 2 might not be available in later games.

[A-Train]

Just an observation but I'm struck by the dearth of Mav Fan mental dribbles in this thread. Once you start talking basketball....

[CosmicCowboy]

bump

no way this thread should drop off the page.

[Kori Ellis]

Though Bowen may see some time on Howard tonight, he's still expected to spend most of his minutes guarding Nowitzki.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/b...k.2edf954.html

[whottt]

4. Make them shoot
Pros: This version of the Mavs isn’t nearly as deadly from the outside as past versions. They have some good shooters but they aren’t loaded with great shooters like they used to be. The Spurs could theoretically play the same style of defense but just back off the shooters. Make players like Josh Howard and Devin Harris beat you with their shooting ability. By sagging in the lane, the Spurs could turn the Mavs into a jump shooting team.
Cons: This one is obvious. If the Mavs hit those shots, the Spurs would be in trouble. Howard is a much improved shooter and a player like Jason Terry could become deadly from the perimeter. With the Mavs being at home, this is risky because a few shots could get the arena rocking.

Those are the four options that Pop has right now. I’m sure AJ is preparing for each of them. Honestly, I don’t know which one I prefer. Luckily they are all doable and each plan would force the Mavs to change what beat the Spurs in Game 2.

If it were up to me, I’d use option number three and make Dirk beat the Spurs while being guarded by a smaller player. He hasn’t consistently burned the Spurs yet and I’d be willing to play with that fire.

Werd....I was noticing this myself...the Spurs are the far superior shooting team...in the paint and out of it.


We need to do to them what teams have always done to us...


Pack the paint...a fitting way to beat AJ.

This include Dirk...Dirk will get his points but Dirk is not clutch...never has been never will be. Ya he's hit a game winner or so...but everyone hits one every thousand or so tried.


Bottom line is that Tim Duncan is a better go to guy that Nowitzki...and Parker is a better paint scorer than anyone on the Mavs...these are the deciding factors of the series.

[carina_gino20]

i'm leaning on 1 and 4. So far, Bowen has done a very good job on Dirk but as much as I would like to see that, there's an immediate problem called Josh Howard that needs to be addressed. 4 also makes sense because unless Dallas shoots 55+% the whole game, they're bound to miss. Seeing those Mavs go for layup after layup in Game 2 just made me sick.

[strangeweather]

I agree with 1 & 4. Then I would switch Bowen back to Dirk for the fourth quarter.

[ploto]

Though Bowen may see some time on Howard tonight, he's still expected to spend most of his minutes guarding Nowitzki.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/b...k.2edf954.html

Key word being expected.

[ShoogarBear]

I only like 4 if Stackhouse is taking the shots. Jason Terry has beat us before from the outside (remember the Hawk losses).

However, keeping the option open to switch Bruce onto Dirk in the 4th, ala Billups and Bosh, is good.

[Rick Von Braun]

Nice ball discussion...

A tangential comment: Have you noticed the complete lack of Mavs' fans in this discussion? I guess timvp is right... Mavs' fans are the bottom part of the fan chain

[ShoogarBear]

If you look, Mav fans are never even viewing this thread. It overloads their three functioning synapses.

[clubalien]

What I find funny is that someone mentioned the strategy of let dirk get his and shut down everyone else. Then we had a reply of well if you do that dirk will go crazy with 60 points(obvioulsy not true), but now all a sudden it is listed as an option.

That said this is one of the better threads on spurstalk.
"Just win, baby"

[Cant_Be_Faded]

If we end up playing small ball today, we are going to get rocked.

[spurster]

I'd go primarily with Option 1. If Dirk gets his, and the Spurs can shut down the rest, then the Spurs win. Also, once the Mavs get used to watching Dirk, the Spurs can change their defense in crunch time to better control Dirk.