Reply With Quote
Someone with all of forty posts asks this question?
PS dumb - look where this thread is now.
lol can you? nash is no mvp lebron should be if you take lebron away from the cavs there nothing if you take nash away from the suns..they still make the playoffs..so hes not really the most important...
Someone with all of forty posts asks this question?
PS dumb - look where this thread is now.
2003-04 Phoenix Suns ... no playoff appearance.
Take Nash of the Suns, no guarantee that the Suns make the playoffs, especially considering Amare was out basically the entire season as well.
Steve Nash is pretty inept at the defensive end. But, anyone remember Craig Hodges? Anyone seen Jamal Crawford play before? How about Luke Ridnour? Peja Stojakovic gets passed more times than an 80 year old grandmother driving a beat up station wagon. Allan Houston was pretty putrid defensively. Ever see Chris Mills play one-on-one defense?
Anyway, even if Nash is not the worst defender ever, it still is pretty unsettling that as bad as he is defensively that he is a two time MVP. And, I guess that's one of the points being made here.
I like Nash's game and I don't think he's the worst EVER...offensively he's completely sound I liked how he posted up on Odom and scored on him in the last series...I read supposedly he wanted to work on his D over the summer last year...There's a slight trace I noticed this year comparably, but other than rotating well with help defense-- he's pretty weak... Like he starts off the game trying to defend his man but once his man reads how he defends and gets by, he basically goes "Ah it--I'll just get ready to run back and push the ball up after he makes this basket".
He's an aberration, most MVP's excel at both ends. He better keep working at it...Stockton was a skinny white guy and he was solid. Parker's tiny and he's an 8 or 9 defender. So I don't know why Nash doesn't elevate it. Maybe it has something to do with the last two coaches he's played for.
lol..i think it they would still make the playoffs without nash...marion has played better defence this year and diaw has really improved
I do find it funny that the same people criticizing Nash for his postseason play, saying it's proof he isn't the MVP, are the same people still talking up Kobe for MVP.
Anyone remember Kobe's postseason?
He wasn't even the MVP of his team in his teams wins. That was Lamar Odom. Sure, he hit the game-tieing, then game-winning shots in game four, but others set the stage for that. They did the heavy lifting, Kobe got the acclaim. Then in game six and game seven, it can be argued it was vintage Kobe in each. Too many shots in one game, not enough out of spite in the following game as his teams chokes against a team they and just about everyone left for dead.
Is that stepping up?
Fact is, Nash carried the Suns this season. He's beat. He's completely worn out, having not had more than a days rest since early in the first round. Let's see how he plays with fresh legs.
Obviously Nash will always be a poor defender, but there's nothing like heavy legs to make one look that much worse.
I still say Ceballos was the most apathetic defender I've ever seen. Dude didn't even try to care.
You're crazy. Marion can't create his own shot and Diaw's improvement stems largely from the pick-n-roll that he and Nash run.
Without Nash, Marion is just another past over star and Diaw's still an unknown most likely.
What's a past over star?
OK, so were on to spelling critiques... clever boy!
It was done on purpose because this thread needed an anal-retentive spellchecker and HEY! What do ya know, I FOUND ONE!
No, I was being genuine. I didn't know if you meant passed over star(underrated) or what...
Easy, tiger, easy...
Yeah... Passed over star as in back to his unknown status of a few years ago when he averaged 21 points, 9+ rebounds, 2+ steals and wasn't named to the All-Star team because the Suns were en route to their worst record ever.
JMarkJohns,
What about those people who complain about Nash getting the MVP who believe LeBron should have gotten it?
Wasn't Lebron #2 in voting?
Lebron had an excellent last month or two, but the MVP isn't based on two months; it's based on an entire year. From beginning to end Nash was a more viable MVP and that was showed in the landslide win. It wasn't close.
12 players have had career years the past two seasons with Nash. Why? Because he's the orchestrator of the offense and he finds ways to get his team involved. People always want to find one point to bash on Nash - mainly his D. But the MVP is a culmination of many aspects of a players game, not one or two.
And Kobes perception around the league/media will always be an achillies heal to him.
I've said this again and again, Nash is a great player. However, his stats and greatness is greatly dependent upon the type of system in which he plays in. When you have a run and gun offense, and athletic players around you who can run and catch the ball, like Marion, Bell, Diaw, etc. you're going to rack up the assists and point totals. The same thing happened to Nash in Dallas when he was there.
Which leads me to my point: What exactly has Nash done differently in Pheonix than he did with his years with the Mavs? Mavs ended the one year with Nash with 60 wins and had 50+ win seasons......yet Nash was never even mentioned for MVP back then. And if you argue it was because he had Dirk next to him...well now he has Shawn Marion. So, what is he doing so differently with the Suns? His stats are up? Well, that is due to the system he plays in now, which I mentioned above. Like Simmons said in his one article, Nash winning the MVP last year was "cute,"...but this year? No way.
29 wins to 62 last year. That's why he got credit for it.
No Amare(all season) and no KT(last 2-3 months) = no inside game. Yet he's still been able to lead them to gm7 of the second round. Take Nash out and they're a very below avg team both seasons. Right or wrong, these are things people look at.
^I understand that. But as I mentioned, the reason they do so well in the regular season was because of the system they play in. Not to mention, Marion, Raja Bell and Diaw aren't exactly a scrubs. Diaw just never got any playing time in Atlanta that's why people never realized how good he was.
Like I said, I'm not denying Nash is a great player or his ability to make his team-mates better. However, back to back MVP's are reserved for seriously amazing players...and Nash has yet to even make it to the Finals (which I know postseason doesn't have any bearing on the award, but still!).
Anyways, if he wins it next year too, then I'll definitly scream!
theres a reason why nash is not on the defensive team,
but if that clown can win mvp without playin defense, then why cant dirk win mvp without playin defense? his team wins are up, his stats are up
Thing is, there weren't many towards the end of the regular season. Everyone had him in their top five, some in their top three, but the "LeBron should have won MVP" argument has really just picked up steam with his otherworldly performance in these playoffs and since the MVP award is a regular season honor, I'll tip my cap to LeBron on his witnesses for his postseason and say if he plays like this all of next year, then the award is his.
I've said all along that the playoffs, no matter who had won the award, shouldn't be factored into the MVP opinion since it doesn't factor into the MVP voting.
Right now, the postseason MVP is LeBron and it's not even close. If he keeps it up, there may be an MVP honor for him this season yet... He's been far and away the best player and has had the most impact on his team's success of anyone.
My post was criticizing those who say Nash shouldn't be the MVP based on his postseason, then still proclaim Kobe a worthy candidate when his team struggled both when he did well and when he intentionally let it.
The Suns road their horse to death. Nash has almost nothing left. After a career high in minutes in the regular season, then an even higher average per game in the 13 postseason battles thus far, that's understandable.
He's got no backup PG that can come in and run the offense in his stead. His coach doesn't believe in running plays. The weight of the Suns postseason rests solely on his ability to beat doubleteams and find his teammates quality, high-percentage shots.
True, his defense is terrible right now, but how many point guards are good post defenders? If you watched the games, you'd know that the Clippers are taking Nash down low a minimum of 20 times a game. That's not to excuse it, but serisously, that's one of the main reasons why Ross went off last night and why Cassell has torched them in the previous games.
As far as I'm concerned, you take a team's most skilled rebounder and then their best low-post scorer and second best rebounder and the expectations aren't nearly as high as where the Suns have ended up. I figured the Suns would lose this series in six. They've superceded my expectations by one game.
A lot of that is Nash.
Again, I'd be arguing for Dirk or even Kobe had they won the award and fans here said they didn't deserve the award.
I hate the Lakers, but I've defended Kobe on several sites. I could really care less about Dirk, but would have argued for him as well. My favorite player in the NBA is Wade and I didn't even argue for him.
I'm not the Suns or Nash homer my arguments for Nash portray me as. I know you're not saying I am, but frankly I'm tired of arguing this over and over here, but there's really nothing to do, short of letting Anti-Nash bias (in most cases) or Anti-Nash arguments run rampent.
Anyways... You've probably stopped reading by this point.. I'm rambling...
LeBron should have been MVP. No question.
Is this why Tony Parker is letting Devin Harris blow by him? Your whole team has played bad defense, especially in this series with the Mavs. You need to look at your own team right now and not at ours. Nash is not a great defender, but I don't think Parker is either plus he has Duncan to cover his mistakes and usually Nazr or Rasho ( though not in this series). It is truly amazing that the Suns have made it this far without Amare and Kurt Thomas. Both the Spurs and the Pistons are being pushed to the brink and both have won championships and have back up point guards to spell their starter. I think you need to look at your own teams before starting stupid threads like this.
Um, yeah, okay. Look at our own teams. Good idea.
Pistons: Billups: horrible defensive player winning phony awards? Nope. Rip: horrible defensive player winning phony awards? Nope.
Spurs: Ginobili: horrible defensive player winning phony awards? Nope. Parker: horrible defensive player winning phony awards? Nope.
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.
Lebron's not that great at defense yet either. He's just a huge Man-beast which makes up for some areas. He will have plenty MVP's in time though.
...Nash is pretty legit in my eyes. Most people on here like to look at everything but this season. 81 and Age won't cut it. Nash was reigning MVP, no one really made their case to take it from him.
In short here's the sole reasons Nash won that the voters would try to deny, and sweep under the rug:
(Not ignoring the fact that all these guys bring it for their teams pretty much equally. Take any of them out, Each team sucks. regardless whose does a little more)
Lebron = too young
Dirk = too soft
Kobe = asshole
Nash = Nice guy.
I rest my case.
Lebron = too young
Dirk = too soft
Kobe = asshole
Nash = Nice guy.
I rest my case.Is that the NBA's official criteria for selecting MVP?
Shoogar,
MVP is not an award for defense, so what is your point?
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
