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  1. #26
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    I for one don't understand why someone can't point out the stupidity of smallball without being labeled a hater. When Pop won't even insert Nazr or Rasho into the game when Timmy and Horry are in foul trouble, I can't figure why everyone wouldn't question the motivation behind it.

    And no, you can't defend small ball any more than the Spurs can defend when they play it.

  2. #27
    Senior Member conqueso's Avatar
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    I for one don't understand why someone can't point out the stupidity of smallball without being labeled a hater. When Pop won't even insert Nazr or Rasho into the game when Timmy and Horry are in foul trouble, I can't figure why everyone wouldn't question the motivation behind it.

    And no, you can't defend small ball any more than the Spurs can defend when they play it.
    Here's how a defense of small ball might go:

    One of Dallas' four-headed centers is always on the court: Diop, Dampier, Mbenga, or Van Horn. Now let's say you eschew small ball and play Rasho a 20-30 minutes per game. Who's he going to guard? Putting him on Dirk would be a laughing stock. You can't stick him on Diop either, because that leaves Duncan to guard Dirk. If you want to put Bowen on Dirk, that forces Duncan to guard Howard or Griffin if Rasho's on DeSagana. Duncan on Dirk still allows Dirk to score in the 25-30 range (since Duncan really can't take away Dirk's drive to the hoop from the elbow and can't jump high enough to block that driving layup), wears out Timmy, and likely gets him into foul trouble. We saw this in the last 4 minutes of game 3, when Tim got stuck guarding Dirk (because Bowen was in serious foul trouble) and Tim fouled him twice, numbers 5 and 6. Duncan on Howard is even worse, since Howard can blow right by him and step out for long range jumpers, pulling Tim out of the paint and forcing Rasho to get all the defensive boards. So playing Rasho means he has to guard either Diop or Dirk, and neither of those scenarios is any better than starting Bruce at PF and putting him on Nowitzki.
    The only other option is to give Nazr the lion's share of the minutes at 5. Nazr is a better (offensive) rebounder than Rasho and he's more athletic. Nazr is more inept on offense than Rasho, and he is (arguably) a worse defender. Rasho plays good one-quarter post position defense, is a decent shot blocker, and has a mid-range jumper than garners just a little bit of respect. The problem with Nazr isn't as much in the x's and o's as it is in the head. Nazr played well (by his standards) in the two regular season victories against the Mavs, averaging 10 ppg, but had not been playing very well during the playoffs (excepting Game 1 against Sacramento, a game in which even I would have played 20 minutes and shot 8-8 from three if I had been wearing a Spurs uniform). The one game where he got any significant time (Game 2), he had 4 fouls and 1 point in 12 minutes. With Nazr, you still have problems matching him up against Dirk or Howard, and he had that deer-in-headlights look when he did get in the game. Maybe being in Pop's doghouse wrecked his confidence, or not getting consistent minutes hurt his rhythm or whatever, but regardless of the reason, he wasn't mentally prepared to play against the Mavs in the playoffs, whereas Finley was. Add that to the matchup problems, and I think it makes a lot of sense to nail him to the bench.
    Both Nazr and Rasho would have helped the Spurs rebounding, which by all accounts was atrocious against Dallas. They might have even denied Devin Harris a lay-up or two with their long arms. But I think it's ironic that those who criticize small ball point to the lack of defense, when sticking with the big lineup would have actually resulted in worse individual defense on Howard, Griffin, and/or Dirk.
    Now I know it sucks that the Spurs had to conform to another team because the matchups just didn't work out in their favor. It's tough to swallow a complete change of mentality in the playoffs, especially when it fails to ensure victory. But you loved it last year when the Spurs annihilated the Suns by refusing to defend Amare and letting him average something ridiculous like 37 ppg while shooting a bunch of one-pass threes in transition. And if you honestly look at the Spurs' roster and compare it to the Mavs' rotation, you can see why the characteristic defense-first approach of the Spurs was inappropriate to use against this Dallas team. Maybe one different piece, like an athletic big who could play D or a long 3 who could shoot, would have changed everything and allowed the Spurs to force the Mavericks to alter their game plan. But with Parker, Ginobili, Finley, Bowen, Duncan, Barry, Horry, Van Exel, Mohammed and Nesterovic, you have to go small.

  3. #28
    Who is this guy, again? travis2's Avatar
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    Here's how a defense of small ball might go:

    One of Dallas' four-headed centers is always on the court: Diop, Dampier, Mbenga, or Van Horn. Now let's say you eschew small ball and play Rasho a 20-30 minutes per game. Who's he going to guard? Putting him on Dirk would be a laughing stock. You can't stick him on Diop either, because that leaves Duncan to guard Dirk. If you want to put Bowen on Dirk, that forces Duncan to guard Howard or Griffin if Rasho's on DeSagana. Duncan on Dirk still allows Dirk to score in the 25-30 range (since Duncan really can't take away Dirk's drive to the hoop from the elbow and can't jump high enough to block that driving layup), wears out Timmy, and likely gets him into foul trouble. We saw this in the last 4 minutes of game 3, when Tim got stuck guarding Dirk (because Bowen was in serious foul trouble) and Tim fouled him twice, numbers 5 and 6. Duncan on Howard is even worse, since Howard can blow right by him and step out for long range jumpers, pulling Tim out of the paint and forcing Rasho to get all the defensive boards. So playing Rasho means he has to guard either Diop or Dirk, and neither of those scenarios is any better than starting Bruce at PF and putting him on Nowitzki.
    The only other option is to give Nazr the lion's share of the minutes at 5. Nazr is a better (offensive) rebounder than Rasho and he's more athletic. Nazr is more inept on offense than Rasho, and he is (arguably) a worse defender. Rasho plays good one-quarter post position defense, is a decent shot blocker, and has a mid-range jumper than garners just a little bit of respect. The problem with Nazr isn't as much in the x's and o's as it is in the head. Nazr played well (by his standards) in the two regular season victories against the Mavs, averaging 10 ppg, but had not been playing very well during the playoffs (excepting Game 1 against Sacramento, a game in which even I would have played 20 minutes and shot 8-8 from three if I had been wearing a Spurs uniform). The one game where he got any significant time (Game 2), he had 4 fouls and 1 point in 12 minutes. With Nazr, you still have problems matching him up against Dirk or Howard, and he had that deer-in-headlights look when he did get in the game. Maybe being in Pop's doghouse wrecked his confidence, or not getting consistent minutes hurt his rhythm or whatever, but regardless of the reason, he wasn't mentally prepared to play against the Mavs in the playoffs, whereas Finley was. Add that to the matchup problems, and I think it makes a lot of sense to nail him to the bench.
    Both Nazr and Rasho would have helped the Spurs rebounding, which by all accounts was atrocious against Dallas. They might have even denied Devin Harris a lay-up or two with their long arms. But I think it's ironic that those who criticize small ball point to the lack of defense, when sticking with the big lineup would have actually resulted in worse individual defense on Howard, Griffin, and/or Dirk.
    Now I know it sucks that the Spurs had to conform to another team because the matchups just didn't work out in their favor. It's tough to swallow a complete change of mentality in the playoffs, especially when it fails to ensure victory. But you loved it last year when the Spurs annihilated the Suns by refusing to defend Amare and letting him average something ridiculous like 37 ppg while shooting a bunch of one-pass threes in transition. And if you honestly look at the Spurs' roster and compare it to the Mavs' rotation, you can see why the characteristic defense-first approach of the Spurs was inappropriate to use against this Dallas team. Maybe one different piece, like an athletic big who could play D or a long 3 who could shoot, would have changed everything and allowed the Spurs to force the Mavericks to alter their game plan. But with Parker, Ginobili, Finley, Bowen, Duncan, Barry, Horry, Van Exel, Mohammed and Nesterovic, you have to go small.
    Someone else who gets it...

  4. #29
    Believe. Fabbs's Avatar
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    We saw this in the last 4 minutes of game 3, when Tim got stuck guarding Dirk (because Bowen was in serious foul trouble) and Tim fouled him twice, numbers 5 and 6.

    Rasho plays good one-quarter post position defense, is a decent shot blocker, and has a mid-range jumper than garners just a little bit of respect.
    Yeah that 6th *foul* on Duncan sure was due to Duncans D. Floppin Frauline steps on his foot then flails to the floor on the way to his 23rd and 24th FTs. No way I call that any deficiency on Duncans D.

    2. A midrange jumper is exactly what Dallas D screamed for.

  5. #30
    Believe. AdmiralMVP's Avatar
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    Pop was the best thing to happen to the Spurs since ... well, getting David Robinson and Tim Duncan with the #1 pick in their respective draft classes. Let's face it, as much as I like Robinson and Duncan, they aren't (weren't) vocal leaders who fire up their teammates. The Spurs needed someone to crack the whip, and Pop did. He brings an intensity that the Spurs need.

  6. #31
    Believe. rwb's Avatar
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    I think Pop leaving is as likely as Timmy leaving, and I'd prefer not to see either scenario any time soon.

  7. #32
    Who is this guy, again? travis2's Avatar
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    Yeah that 6th *foul* on Duncan sure was due to Duncans D. Floppin Frauline steps on his foot then flails to the floor on the way to his 23rd and 24th FTs. No way I call that any deficiency on Duncans D.

    2. A midrange jumper is exactly what Dallas D screamed for.
    But that's how the games are called, idiot. That would have happened EVERY ING GAME had you put Duncan on Nowitzki regularly.


  8. #33
    Senior Member conqueso's Avatar
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    Yeah that 6th *foul* on Duncan sure was due to Duncans D. Floppin Frauline steps on his foot then flails to the floor on the way to his 23rd and 24th FTs. No way I call that any deficiency on Duncans D.

    2. A midrange jumper is exactly what Dallas D screamed for.
    1. Regardless of whether the refs sucked (which they did), it's pretty clear that Timmy can't guard Dirk 35 minutes/game as well as Bowen. Dirk pump fakes at the elbow and drives on Duncan every time Duncan steps out to contest his money mid-range jumper. Duncan is not very effective defensively against Dirk, and that is the root of all the Spurs' (as well as the rest of the league's) matchup problems.

    2. I don't think Rasho making 4 or 5 mid-range jumpers a game would have saved the Spurs. Dirk would also be D-ing up Rasho, and I'm not going to say that Dirk can actually play D or anything, but Rasho would be the perfect defensive assignment for him: slow, plodding, same height, can't really post up...Dirk would have had a hand in Rasho's face every time he tried to shoot that short-corner or straight-on middie. With Rasho, Spurs' rebounding would have been better, but their transition defense (and half-court defense against Dirk et al) would have been much much MUCH worse.

    Can someone direct me to the small ball vs. big ball thread? I want to read what some other people have had to say about this, and I haven't found the thread devoted to it.

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