Avery's media problem

[pussyface]

chumpdumper, you think the league was right huh?

[pussyface]

...if toine fouls dirk as hard as stack fouled shaq a suspension might have been warrented.

shaq is a different animal and should be treated as such: a g/f like stackhouse fouling oneal hard isnt directly relatable to f like walker fouling a f like nowitzki hard.

if you watched the game and saw the hit and think the nba did the right thing by suspending stackhouse, i can honestly say that on some level I suspect you are a bit of a softie. although i admit that if toine had done that to dirk i'd be okay with suspending antoine, there is no way in that, were I a Heat fan, I would be advocating Stack's suspension in this situation.

then again, i am one of those guys who likes to see a good hard foul every now and again, and i'm not that into the wnba.

[pussyface]

just as you look to mavs fans thinking the Stack suspension is unwarrented as proof that they are purely partisan and would advocate anything if it benifitted the mavs, I can look at you and do the reverse.

i think that you are so upset about the Mavs beating the Spurs and want to see them beaten so badly that you are quick to look at a good, hard, flagrant 1 foul you would have loved to see Manu put on Shaq and call it a suspension worthy offense.

next, you justified it by comparing it to an apples-and-oranges hypothetical collision between two players of roughly equal size.

[nbascribe]

The justification of the foul is the fact that Stack played body. He wasn't even trying to go for the ball. He hit Shaq when he went airborne and that's just a no-no.

[Lp26]

This is actually getting alot of attention in the national media. There was an article in the NY Times today talking about it saying if this was Dwade who did this to say Eric Dampier, he would've never gotten suspended and reporters would be celebrating "Riley ball" and the "toughness" of the Heat. Also if the Mavs had done nothing, they would be criticized as soft. It also talked about the suspension was "favoritism", and the league losing more and more credibility with things like this.

Say what you want about the Mavs/Stackhouse, but I don't know if anyone here can agree that Wade would've been supsended for that.

[nbascribe]

This is actually getting alot of attention in the national media. There was an article in the NY Times today talking about it saying if this was Dwade who did this to say Eric Dampier, he would've never gotten suspended and reporters would be celebrating "Riley ball" and the "toughness" of the Heat. Also if the Mavs had done nothing, they would be criticized as soft. It also talked about the suspension was "favoritism", and the league losing more and more credibility with things like this.

The Heat do play dirty. Shaq gets away with ALOT. So does (If the Spurs were in the EC and played them more, some might have a very different opinion than they do now)

When things tend to go wrong, they're solution is to start beating (literally) the other team. They've come unraveled so many times this season (playoffs included).

Say what you want about the Mavs/Stackhouse, but I don't know if anyone here can agree that Wade would've been supsended for that.

Yes he would. If he went anywhere near the neck area, he would have been suspended. You cannot commit a foul towards the head area, no matter what the size of the player is. The refs will call that every time and usually it will be upgraded to a more severe penalty.

Keep in mind, Wade went to Shaq and stopped him from retaliating. If he hadn't you would have had a bench clearing brawl and I don't think Stack would have won that fight. Hitting a 340 pound man who is also an officer is basically stupidity at the root level.

[Winnipeg_Spur]

The Heat do play dirty. Shaq gets away with ALOT. So does (If the Spurs were in the EC and played them more, some might have a very different opinion than they do now)

You think Spurs fans don't know Shaq? Trust me, we saw plenty of him when he was in LA, and back then he got a lot more calls. These days he gets called for a lot more of the stuff he used to do, and as a result he's in foul trouble seemingly every other game...

[Lp26]

Yes he would. If he went anywhere near the neck area, he would have been suspended. You cannot commit a foul towards the head area, no matter what the size of the player is. The refs will call that every time and usually it will be upgraded to a more severe penalty.

I don't know. I guess it's just a difference of opinion. I really don't see the league suspending Wade for that esp. in the NBA Finals just b/c of who he is.

Keep in mind, Wade went to Shaq and stopped him from retaliating. If he hadn't you would have had a bench clearing brawl and I don't think Stack would have won that fight. Hitting a 340 pound man who is also an officer is basically stupidity at the root level.

But at the same time if they're had been a fight/or some sort of retaliation, imagine both Stackhouse and Shaq getting suspended. To say the Heat would be affected more by that is an understatement. The hard foul would look pretty smart at that point, although Stackhouse would probably be dead.

[pussyface]

...didnt post originally because i dont have anything to back this up, but on a gut level i totally agree with lp26. i cannot imagine the league suspending wade in a similar cir stance, much less if he had committed his foul on the likes of Eric Dampier.

[nbascribe]

This is the definition of a flagrant foul according to this year's rule book: Section 4g - A flagrant foul is unnecessary and/or excessive contact committed by a player against an opponent whether the ball is dead or alive.

Stack's foul was excessive.

The full rule is the following:

Section IV—Flagrant Foul a. If contact committed against a player, with or without the ball, is interpreted to be unnecessary, a flagrant foul— penalty (1) will be assessed.A personal foul is charged to the offender and a team foul is charged to the team.
PENALTY: (1) Two free throws shall be attempted and the ball awarded to the offended team on either side of the court at the free throw line extended. (2) If the offended player is injured and unable to attempt his free throws, the opposing coach will select any player from the bench to attempt the free throws. (3) This subs ute may not be replaced until the ball is legally touched by a player on the court. (EXCEPTION:
Rule 3—Section V—e.) (4) The injured player may not return to the game. (5) A player will be ejected if he commits two flagrant fouls in the same game.
b. If contact committed against a player, with or without the ball, is interpreted to be unnecessary and excessive, a flagrant foul—penalty (2) will be assessed. A personal foul is charged to the offender and a team foul is charged to the team.
PENALTY: (1) Two free throws shall be attempted and the ball awarded to the
offended team on either side of the court at the free throw line extended.
(2) If the offended player is injured and unable to attempt his free throws, his coach will select a subs ute and any player from the team is eligible to attempt the free throws. (3) This subs ute may not be replaced until the ball is legally touched by a player on the court.
EXCEPTION: Rule 3—Section V—e. (4) The injured player may return to the game at any time after the free throws are attempted. (5) This is an unsportsmanlike act and the offender is ejected. c. A flagrant foul may be assessed whether the ball is dead or alive.

The league can review the situation and even though the Mavs' didn't agree with the suspension, the foul was excessive according to the rule book.

Maybe what Avery should do is teach his guys the rulebook too.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I stopped listening on the news when Avery said all he wanted was consistency out of the league on penalties.

Well AJ, Posey shoulder blocked Kirk Hinrich in round 1, and was suspended... (I hope you're sitting down Whiny General...) ONE GAME.

How much more ing consistency do you want, you little prick?

One of my cousins is a Mavs season ticket holder, and we were talking earlier today and he thinks Avery is panicking. He points to the two day fest about officiating and the moving of the team, and thinks that Avery is overmatched and is panicking, trying anything to get his team to 'respond'.

The more I think about it, the more I think he's right on the money.

[nbascribe]

I stopped listening on the news when Avery said all he wanted was consistency out of the league on penalties.

Well AJ, Posey shoulder blocked Kirk Hinrich in round 1, and was suspended... (I hope you're sitting down Whiny General...) ONE GAME.

How much more ing consistency do you want, you little prick?

One of my cousins is a Mavs season ticket holder, and we were talking earlier today and he thinks Avery is panicking. He points to the two day fest about officiating and the moving of the team, and thinks that Avery is overmatched and is panicking, trying anything to get his team to 'respond'.

The more I think about it, the more I think he's right on the money.

I think it's more the case of they have shot their wad during their two series with San Antonio and Pheonix. This team (and a lot of its fanbase) were so intent on beating the two powerhouses in the West that they didnt realize that they'd have a dogfight on their hands in this series. All that sweep talk last week prior to the game three loss solidified my contention that nobody respects the game at this point of the season.

As much as people want to say that AJ had outcoached Pop and D'Antoni in the West, the Heat have matched the Mavs' intensity from the last two games and have now found their rhythm and gameplan in beating their opponent. Game four was a telling game whether Mavs' fans and their team wants to admit it or not. The fact that they cannot stop Wade and allowed him to basically dictate the game is systematic to how the Mavs have played their last two series.

I'll say this again, if the Mavs lose tonight, you might want to start calling Dr. Phil. Trying to win two straight, even with homecourt advantage is a daunting task for this team. You are asking them to do something that they have not had to do on a consistent basis in the playoffs.

[Islymore]

Part of me would agree with the thots that AJ is panickin a bit...
I would totally agree with that...

If I didnt believe that his opinions had some purpose.
All the man is sayin is exactly what everybody has been sayin since playoffs begin.
Def on this forum. Spur fans wanted the officiating to be consistent against the Mavs, did they not? Mav fans felt the same. Lets stop with all the whining references when ppl have been sayin it since Playoffs began. Those same ppl werent whining when they wanted calls in favor of their team then, so why all of a sudden is it a whine when a COACH says he wants consistency from refs?
Ppl get real. Everybody has been saying so much about the BS calls from the refs, the lack of calls, or the refs ability to call a foul bc they thot there would be one....

IS THIS ALL SUCH NEW INFORMATION???


* And I dont know how I feel about the DWADE ifs... Who cares about them? DWADE has been playin smarter than that hasnt he? Stack fouled the guy, no way was he goin for the ball. Clearly saw an elbow thrown in that mix... So Stack should be fouled. I know he's pissed about it. I am too, as a Mav fan how could I not be? But this is the finals... What do they really want a knock down drag-out fest on ABC? Please. Still pullin for the Mavs. I fully expect them to come to play tonight. I've always said it would come down to 6 games, 4-2 Mavs. Im stickin with that.

[nbascribe]

Part of me would agree with the thots that AJ is panickin a bit...
I would totally agree with that...

If I didnt believe that his opinions had some purpose.
All the man is sayin is exactly what everybody has been sayin since playoffs begin.
Def on this forum. Spur fans wanted the officiating to be consistent against the Mavs, did they not? Mav fans felt the same. Lets stop with all the whining references when ppl have been sayin it since Playoffs began. Those same ppl werent whining when they wanted calls in favor of their team then, so why all of a sudden is it a whine when a COACH says he wants consistency from refs?
Ppl get real. Everybody has been saying so much about the BS calls from the refs, the lack of calls, or the refs ability to call a foul bc they thot there would be one....

IS THIS ALL SUCH NEW INFORMATION???


* And I dont know how I feel about the DWADE ifs... Who cares about them? DWADE has been playin smarter than that hasnt he? Stack fouled the guy, no way was he goin for the ball. Clearly saw an elbow thrown in that mix... So Stack should be fouled. I know he's pissed about it. I am too, as a Mav fan how could I not be? But this is the finals... What do they really want a knock down drag-out fest on ABC? Please. Still pullin for the Mavs. I fully expect them to come to play tonight. I've always said it would come down to 6 games, 4-2 Mavs. Im stickin with that.

I can't go with that 4-2 premise. The Mavs aren't the consistent. When it comes to closing out series at opportune times, the Mavs continually fail the test. Remember in this series alone they had two opportunities to be in a 3-1 position and failed to do so. The Heat know that tonight is their 'game seven' scenario in front of the home crowd and they have played exceptionally well at home.

Sure the Mavs will come and play hard because they are a man down now. And they aren't just a man down like in the Spurs series; this is their top reserve off the bench. There is nobody on that bench that does the intangibles that Stackhouse does for them....NOBODY.

[Islymore]

While I could agree... def tonight is a must win for both teams. In my opinion more so for the Mavs than the Heat - and I know some disagree... But... I fully expect the Mavs to play better ball than they have the last two games. I expect Dirk to show up since he took a vay'k the last two games... and I expect better ball rotation... better looks... better overall production from the Mavs. What we have seen the last two games, I fail to believe is attributed to 'running outta gas' or the Mavs feeling like they accomplished what they needed to by beatin the teams in the West.

Stack is definitely needed. Dont confuse my thots. But just like JET when he returned, Stack will be lookin for his in Game 6. Period and he will be home in front of his fans... So I am almost certain the Mavs will do the next two games.

Just my opinion... and I am fully aware that sometimes those are wrong.
In this case... I gotta go with my Mavs...

And while true there is nobody to replace Stack from the bench... I fully expect the starters to play like they should - they should carry this team to a victory if its the last thing they do. (JET, DIRK, JOSH, DEV, DAMP/DIOP)

But what do I know? I am just a fan.

EDIT: And its not 'Stack should be fouled - I meant Stack should be suspended... Man I cant type today for some reason!

[nbascribe]

Lol...

Look we all have their opinions. I had the Spurs and Detroit pinned in this year. I shouldn't even be in Miami today but in boring as Detoit!! But see why they play the game.

I think one of the things most people are forgetting is how exposed the Mavs were in those last two games. Game three was a very winneable game and they should have had that one. Game four wasn't going to be winneable but the Mavs had game three.

And I agree with you this game is important to the Mavs because it gives them momentum going back to the AAC. However this game is equally important for the Heat because if they get the 3-2 edge, then it's just one game they have to win on the road; not two.

We'll see in a few hours though.

gm

[Islymore]

Oh def... Most def...

When I spoke to a friend of mine from NY prior to Game 3, I told him the Heat would win easy. They were home, needed to win, could play how they wanted to. I told him then it was a momentum changing game and the Mavs needed to win it but I just didnt feel the Mavs would win in my gut. My gut has been pretty good to me soo far in the playoffs... He wanted to take me to Vegas... Lol... Since I made us both a good bit of change this playoff run...

Anyway - My thing is... I'm not one of those foolish fans who has suddenly seen the Maverick light. I know the team plays iffy. I know the team isnt as concrete as some fans are believing. I know this team. I know that the "exposing" is not really "exposing" its just something nobody every picked up on until the Heat did. There was nothing to expose to me - bc I have seen them play like this all season. I have seen them play B+ defense and then IN THE SAME GAME turn around and play F defense and let a man run right past them for an easy layup. Dirk has always been horrible against smaller defenders... Stack has always had an at ude... *I was waitin on him to erupt*... and once JET misses, look for him to miss a few more times before he finds the basket... Sorry I'm rambling...

You left Detroit to go to Miami? Who could blame you? I thot that this year would be a building, meshing year for the Mavs... I am as shocked as they come to their position in the Finals this year... I looked for them to be way better next year after a year of playin together... So I too had Detroit/Spurs as the Finals... I hate Detroit went out like they did...

[nbascribe]

Oh def... Most def...

When I spoke to a friend of mine from NY prior to Game 3, I told him the Heat would win easy. They were home, needed to win, could play how they wanted to. I told him then it was a momentum changing game and the Mavs needed to win it but I just didnt feel the Mavs would win in my gut. My gut has been pretty good to me soo far in the playoffs... He wanted to take me to Vegas... Lol... Since I made us both a good bit of change this playoff run...

Anyway - My thing is... I'm not one of those foolish fans who has suddenly seen the Maverick light. I know the team plays iffy. I know the team isnt as concrete as some fans are believing. I know this team. I know that the "exposing" is not really "exposing" its just something nobody every picked up on until the Heat did. There was nothing to expose to me - bc I have seen them play like this all season. I have seen them play B+ defense and then IN THE SAME GAME turn around and play F defense and let a man run right past them for an easy layup. Dirk has always been horrible against smaller defenders... Stack has always had an at ude... *I was waitin on him to erupt*... and once JET misses, look for him to miss a few more times before he finds the basket... Sorry I'm rambling...

You left Detroit to go to Miami? Who could blame you? I thot that this year would be a building, meshing year for the Mavs... I am as shocked as they come to their position in the Finals this year... I looked for them to be way better next year after a year of playin together... So I too had Detroit/Spurs as the Finals... I hate Detroit went out like they did...

Naw I was dreading covering a Detroit/Spurs game in Detroit. The only reason why I'm in Miami is that I got credentialed and figured I might as well see a game here too. Saw game 2 in Big D.

This has been a good series for both fans and writers. Heck who would have thoght that this series would finally become a slugfest.

[ChumpDumper]

Pussyface, your three posts of whining says it all.

I agree with the suspension. I would've agreed with the suspension the other way. I agreed with the Willis suspension against PHX and called it right when it happened. I don't know why I should be ashamed of siding with Cuban on his view of fouls, maybe you should take it up with him.

I understand you are really upset at losing two in a row in such embarrassing fashion after thinking you were going to sweep and that you have nothing approaching objectivity in this situation. I understand you are afraid to lose yet again so you go into a whining frenzy when confronted with the truth.

I have to say the only reason I really have to root for the Heat is that the Mavfan contingent here is the biggest collection of es outside the Westminster show.

[nbascribe]

Pussyface, your three posts of whining says it all.

I agree with the suspension. I would've agreed with the suspension the other way. I agreed with the Willis suspension against PHX and called it right when it happened. I don't know why I should be ashamed of siding with Cuban on his view of fouls, maybe you should take it up with him.

I understand you are really upset at losing two in a row in such embarrassing fashion after thinking you were going to sweep and that you have nothing approaching objectivity in this situation. I understand you are afraid to lose yet again so you go into a whining frenzy when confronted with the truth.

I have to say the only reason I really have to root for the Heat is that the Mavfan contingent here is the biggest collection of es outside the Westminster show.

I take offense to be calling a with whiny Mavs fans.
Signed Lassie

[ChumpDumper]

There are exceptions, but the es dorwn them out.

[Islymore]

Naw I was dreading covering a Detroit/Spurs game in Detroit. The only reason why I'm in Miami is that I got credentialed and figured I might as well see a game here too. Saw game 2 in Big D.

This has been a good series for both fans and writers. Heck who would have thoght that this series would finally become a slugfest.

well lucky you... lol... I'm from Dallas and didnt make it to games 1 or 2.... hopefully I can get in at 6... lol... I never would have imagined Stack would get suspended in the Finals, or seeing so many elbows, or just everything that we have seen. The craziness of it.

And I take offense to being called a /whiny Mavfan. I can never understand the "clumpin" thass done from NBA fans. I am a fan of the sport. I happen to love the Mavs.

[pussyface]

i went for the basketball route and that didnt work. you just wrote off my 3 posts of reasoned argument as "whining."

my tone towards you was civil, while you were purely abrasive in tone in your posts towards me. Im not sure if this is because I am a classier person than you or because i have less to be bitter about than you, as my team plays for the championship while yours is fishing, but at this point I am throwing all that out.

in light of your nails on a chalkboard approach to argument, i'll give up on making basketball points that you won't consider and just go with calling you are a big pussy for not wanting to let boys be boys. Quit crying you ing baby.

[pussyface]

"I understand you are really upset at losing two in a row in such embarrassing fashion after thinking you were going to sweep and that you have nothing approaching objectivity in this situation"-you

lets speak to the issue of objectivity. i disagree with your assesment that you need to me a mavs fan to feel that this suspension was bull . ask steve kerr or many other members of the national media for more on that.

i think people who are interested basketball observors would like to see the players decide the series and not have one team handicapped by league front office judgement calls. im one of them. Like most people, I'd like league interference in this scene to be as minimal as possible.

on the other hand, spurs partisans will be likely to favor the suspension because they will naturally carry bitterness towards the team that eliminated them from the playoffs.

[nbascribe]

"I understand you are really upset at losing two in a row in such embarrassing fashion after thinking you were going to sweep and that you have nothing approaching objectivity in this situation"-you

lets speak to the issue of objectivity. i disagree with your assesment that you need to me a mavs fan to feel that this suspension was bull . ask steve kerr or many other members of the national media for more on that.

i think people who are interested basketball observors would like to see the players decide the series and not have one team handicapped by league front office judgement calls. im one of them. Like most people, I'd like league interference in this scene to be as minimal as possible.

on the other hand, spurs partisans will be likely to favor the suspension because they will naturally carry bitterness towards the team that eliminated them from the playoffs.

Pussyface I'm part of the Spurs media AND A PART OF THE NATIONAL MEDIA and I thought it was very warranted. Unlike most of those guys up there, I DO MY HOMEWORK. Posey's suspension is right up there with what Stack got. If you read the rule and interpret it properly, you'd see that Stu Jackson did what was appropriate.

Face the fact that Stack didn't play the ball and we'll be done with this topic. If Stack didn't get suspended and they let this type of rough play go forward, I guarantee you that Dirk was gonna get put on his ass. This isn't baseball where there are unwritten rules for retaliation. The NBA doesn't allow such nonsense.

The play was wrong and whether you like it or not, it was the right thing to do. The one thing I can't stand is for anyone, a fan, a player, coach or even a guy who is supposed to know the game not know the damn rules. The majority of the national press don't know a lick of NBA rules and probably couldn't even tell you how to get them to read.