Its Official (3rd or 4th best team in the west)

[RogerIsEatingASandwich]

A helping hand? Thanks babe. *unzip*

go to bed

[SenorSpur]

Phoenix-Better
Dallas-Better
Clippers-Better

Then you have the spurs, lakers, wolves, jazz, kings all cluster banging each other!

More second round losses to the Mavs or time to be the Suns es in the second round!

Plus, this team has no depth, ZERO depth, if Manu, Finley, or Godforbid Tim go down, game over this time. Horry is a walking corpse who doesn't care anymore, Tony is going to have to work so hard this year his legs will be gone by february!

Manu is to fragile, Finley is no spring chicken, Brent Barry will not provide additional minutes. WHo on this team can handle additional minutes? Elson is good for 5 fouls a night, 2 pts, 5 rb's, 0 blocks, soft as charmin. Butler can't play any defense, that should be good for Popovich! What the are they thinking! Jacque Vaugh, can you say Anthony Carter the second???

I feel letdown by the spurs, but maybe it was our time to pay the piper, the suns and mavs will battle for supremacy for many years to come! How come no one is talking about Greg Buckner going to the mavs? nice veteran addition to replace daniels, or minny getting Mike James.

The Goal in the offseason is to get better not worse, but even more painful is the fact that you have an aging core, a closing window, Duncan has 4 good years left, and your telling me he has to go to war with Elson and Butler for half of those! WOW!

Nothing like Tim Duncan looking over his shoulder to see Elson, Butler, or Matt Bonner helping him enforce the paint in a tight 4th quarter! Wow, Tim has to feel so confused right now! I guess we find out how good of a coach Greg is because we all know how much he likes it when our bigs play soft and can't make rotations on key possesions down the stretch!

Big deal, life goes on, but it still hurts, the lakers signed Radmonovich, teams try to get good players, not the spurs!

So true. For all those who said "trust the FO" and "Pop and R.C. know more than we do", well how do you like the moves that were made? Or better still, how do you like the moves that they didn't make?

So for everyone that felt confident that there was a grand plan in place, you've now got your answer. To date, that grand plan seems to be "dump salaries at the expense of improving the team" and "take whatever leftover scrubs off the scrap heap so long as it doesn't impact the the bottom line".

Sorry folks. The FO doesn't get a pass here. The Spurs may be better off financially for this upcoming season, but the team that will "hit the floor" this year will likely be less talented than last year's. It's quite possible that the other top teams in the conference may have either closed the gap or surpassed the Spurs.

The bottom line is I don't see how the moves made will improve the chances of the Spurs winning a championship.

For all those that said "don't panic", welcome to Panic City. I'll be out on the ledge waiting patiently for others to join.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Wolf, take a deep breath and step back from the ledge...

1. Some Spurs fans are so spoiled! It's like they have a sense of en lement and want a championship to be guaranteed before the season is anywhere near starting! Get over it.

2. There's a little thing called long-term strategy that separates teams like the Knicks from teams like the Spurs. Our management has consistently kicked arse for the last 8 years, and they know more than you or I do. There are no big moves being made because there are no big moves out there that will help us commensurate with their future impact (ie. the old "don't make bad moves for the sake of making moves" rule)

3. If we get Butler I think it will have been a decent offseason.

Vaughn is versatility, one shooting backup PG, one for defense. Min contract. Nice move.
Butler is 21, athletic and probably pretty motivated to make a career in this league. He can bang and block shots and has a post game, and it'll cost Dolan 14mil to keep him (lux tax) - let's hope he doesn't.
Elson is a serviceable backup centre who could surprise us under Tim and Pop's tutelage (like Jax, for example). We shall see. Would've preferred Javtokas though.

Parker/Udrih/Vaughn
Manu/Fin/Barry
Bowen/William/Barry
TD/Bonner/Horry
Butler/Elson/Oberto

I'll go to war with that and see what happens. Would've preferred to see Jav, and I think we'll still get a young swingman for the minimum for depth, but it's not the worst Spurs team I've seen on paper. More than that, we haven't killed the cap for more tweaking moves over the rest of Timmy's career. It's a SUSTAINABLE model.

4. We can always make a tweaking move during the season.

[mffl89]

for u to say that the spurs aren't gonna be a top team next season is bs...although i do wish that they wouldn't be a top team next season, the spurs will probably end up ruining my dreams again

*dreams* as in hoping the spurs don't finish as a top team...NOT where they knock the mavs out of the playoffs

sorry if it doesn't make sense

[FromWayDowntown]

I'm pretty sure the Spurs will be lucky to make the playoffs next season



I'm not exactly sure how it is that this team has gone backwards and lost depth by improving the point guard situation and obtaining a guy who can spread the floor while having a much better chance of hanging in a series against an athletic team. They already would seem to have 2 things that they didn't have last season.

Plus, this team has no depth, ZERO depth, if Manu, Finley, or Godforbid Tim go down, game over this time. Horry is a walking corpse who doesn't care anymore, Tony is going to have to work so hard this year his legs will be gone by february!

For the last 9 seasons, it's been true that if Tim went down, the Spurs were history. It's not possible to have a guy who can step in and provide what Tim does. Tim is the beginning and the ending of this thing -- no Tim = no contention and no les.

[GrandeDavid]

Once again the Spurs will prove the idiots wrong. Besides, its an odd year.

[SpursWillOwn]

its another float under the rader move by cia pop with vaughn?

[MajorMike]

Amare Stoudamire will score 80+ on the Spurs interior. Wait and see.

And the Suns will lose by 8, just like '05.

[NBA Junkie]

And I think it will end up being...

1) Spurs
2) Suns
3) Mavs
4) Clips

Spot on with the Spurs having the best record.

[JGrice02]

Phoenix and Dallas are better..... or are you telling me that there not?

they have this guy named Amare, he's not bad

Dallas is better, younger, more athletic, deeper, better offense, enough D. A coach that knows all the tricks.

The Spurs could just as easily say they are more experienced, have three All-Stars (including the best player from either team), are better on defense, have enough offense, and are led by a coach who has been there several times.

The Mavs did nothing to drastically improve themselves this offseason. It's not like the gap between the Spurs and Mavs is widening. The problem with the Spurs offseason is they are leaving themselves vulnerable against teams like Miami and even Phoenix.

The Mavs were the one's who were a Manu-foul away from exiting in the second round. And the Mavs were the one's who choked in the Finals. The only team that can make a drastic improvement next season is Phoenix, and that is IF Stoudamire returns to 2005 form. The Spurs beat that team two years ago and they have every reason to think they can do it again.

It would have been nice to see the Spurs make some significant upgrades this offseason but to think they will drop significantly is premature. They will fight it out with the Mavs and Suns for the top seed.

[FromWayDowntown]

It would have been nice to see the Spurs make some significant upgrades this offseason but to think they will drop significantly is premature. They will fight it out with the Mavs and Suns for the top seed.

Sure, it would have been nice, but I'm not sure what significant upgrades the Spurs actually could have made, given their cap situation and the resources available to them. That's the thing about the ing and moaning that I still don't understand -- what opportunities (real, no-brainer sorts of opportunities) have the Spurs missed in this off-season? I can't think of any. They've made some financial decisions, but there's some degree of prudence in that -- why pay Joel Przybilla for 5 years at the MLE when he isn't appreciably better in real basketball terms than guys who are still on the market and will come at lower salaries for fewer guaranteed years?

[ObiwanGinobili]

I disagree.

1) Mavs
2) Spurs
3) Suns
4) Clippers


And I think it will end up being...

1) Spurs
2) Suns
3) Mavs
4) Clips

I agree with PDBM.
I was going to post this exact thing (admitedly with about 5 typos added) but he beat me to it.

[callo1]

Phoenix-Better
Dallas-Better
Clippers-Better

Then you have the spurs, lakers, wolves, jazz, kings all cluster banging each other!

More second round losses to the Mavs or time to be the Suns es in the second round!

Plus, this team has no depth, ZERO depth, if Manu, Finley, or Godforbid Tim go down, game over this time. Horry is a walking corpse who doesn't care anymore, Tony is going to have to work so hard this year his legs will be gone by february!

Manu is to fragile, Finley is no spring chicken, Brent Barry will not provide additional minutes. WHo on this team can handle additional minutes? Elson is good for 5 fouls a night, 2 pts, 5 rb's, 0 blocks, soft as charmin. Butler can't play any defense, that should be good for Popovich! What the are they thinking! Jacque Vaugh, can you say Anthony Carter the second???

I feel letdown by the spurs, but maybe it was our time to pay the piper, the suns and mavs will battle for supremacy for many years to come! How come no one is talking about Greg Buckner going to the mavs? nice veteran addition to replace daniels, or minny getting Mike James.

The Goal in the offseason is to get better not worse, but even more painful is the fact that you have an aging core, a closing window, Duncan has 4 good years left, and your telling me he has to go to war with Elson and Butler for half of those! WOW!

Nothing like Tim Duncan looking over his shoulder to see Elson, Butler, or Matt Bonner helping him enforce the paint in a tight 4th quarter! Wow, Tim has to feel so confused right now! I guess we find out how good of a coach Greg is because we all know how much he likes it when our bigs play soft and can't make rotations on key possesions down the stretch!

Big deal, life goes on, but it still hurts, the lakers signed Radmonovich, teams try to get good players, not the spurs!

I honestly don't even know how to respond to stuff like this. Last I checked, the Spurs were one freaking shot away from another Finals trip without even playing their bigs in the WCF. Just who the does everyone expect the Spurs to sign at center that is so damn good? Have you people not seen what is out there? FFS, some of you even think a greatly undersized nut grabber like Reggie Evans is the answer to the Spurs prayers. Not to mention the league going in the direction of small ball as far as calls go. Funny how many in here have a European that has NEVER played one minute in the NBA (Jav) as the savior that the Spurs are passing up, and how they can't win a ring without him.

Some in here need a serious reality check. Please name 1 team in the WCF that has a better starting 3 than the Spurs (TD, Manu, TP). Last I checked, the trade deadline was a loooong way away.

The only thing official is the insane overreacting in posts such as this.

[furry_spurry]

Judging from their personnel maneuvers early in this off-season,two of the NBA's best teams, the San Antonio Spus and the Dallas Mavericks, are stuck in the past. Their transactions suggest they're still trying to reverse their final losses of the 2005–06 season, rather than looking to compete next season.

The development is somewhat surprising because both teams are generally model franchises, especially well-regarded for their work in talent development and shrewd personnel judgments. Yet the Spurs have jettisoned both of their centers, leaving the team perilously thin in the paint (yes, there's Tim Duncan, but little else). The Mavs, meanwhile, have weakened themselves on the wings.

The Spurs' strategy to look for smaller, quicker players was understandable after their loss to the Mavericks in the Western Conference semifinals. Dallas utilized a small lineup, often using Keith Van Horn — a small forward in most lineups — as a center, and ultra-quick guard Devin Harris to push the tempo. The Spurs — a classic, big center, lowpost power forward-style team — struggled to keep up. Their pivotmen, Rasho Nesterovic and Nazr Mohammed, could barely get off the pine because there was no opponent they could guard effectively. Dallas's speed had turned one of San Antonio's assets — strong play in the pivot — into a weakness.

So far in the off-season, the Spurs have traded Nesterovic to the Toronto Raptors in exchange for Matt Bonner and Eric Williams, two forwards who mostly live on the perimeter. Then they watched as Mohammed, a free agent, signed with Detroit. Suddenly, the Spurs' depth in the pivot had vanished. Fabricio Oberto, a 31-year-old rookie from Argentina who saw only 492 minutes of (mostly garbage time) burn, is the now lone option at center. Putting Duncan at center leaves Oberto and the aging Robert Horry as the only options at power forward.

The Spurs are said to be interested in Nuggets center Francisco Elson, but by clearing out the in bents, they have put themselves in a terrible bargaining position. Also, since when did Elson become anyone's idea of a solution? In three seasons with Denver, the 29-year-old from the Netherlands has done little to look like a starting NBA pivotman. Even last season, when the Nuggets were desperate for anyone to play the five, Elson managed just 4.9 points and 4.7 boards in 22 minutes per game.

If the Spurs don't shore up their pivot situation, it will mark their second straight bad off-season. Last summer, they eagerly signed up Oberto, swingman Michael Finley, and guard Nick Van Exel. Of that trio, only Finley paid any dividends,and he's 32 and clearly declining.The Spurs' front office has had a long run of stellar successes, including drafting all-stars Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker when both were relatively unknown players in the European leagues. Unless they can duplicate that success with their frontline personnel, they may be in for a dip next season.

...

Rather than analyze their weaknesses (the Spurs were a poor rebounding and foul-shooting team and Dallas was foul prone and failed to clean the defensive glass) and shore them up, both teams have chosen to fortify themselves in case the spring of 2006 rolls around again.


http://www.nysun.com/article/35976

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

I think scientists should study the Spurs and why the attract an unusually high number of psychics into their fan base. Although this does save me some time and money. My wife and I were thinking about getting league pass but now that we know this season is a lost cause we won't buy it, and instead of watching the games I'll start painting or something. I don't know why there's a huge rush to be the first one over the cliff. It's not like we won't all have a chance to piss and moan if the season starts and the Spurs have a crappy year.

[picnroll]

Why were the Spurs loading up on and carrying guys like Marks and Oberto when other teams were pulling in Diop, M Benga, Butler? What's happened to the vaunted Spurs' front office eye for talent? Even now, rather than get a backup PG with potential, Pop takes the Van Exel, Vaughn route.

[cheguevara]

And this means absolutely nothing.


Remember ppl put the Heat at #5 or #6 in the league last year. and look what happened.

[Mr. Body]

I take heart in the random bit of absolute chance and crazy cir stances that lead Miami Heat to take the championship. That gives San Antonio something like a pure 15.6% chance of getting into the Finals this year.

[mabber]

Amare can't even score on the summer league guys

I've heard such conflicting reports on Amare this summer that I don't know what to believe. Obviously, the Suns FO is putting the "Amare is back" spin on everything but I've heard two totally different stories from outside sources about him. One that says he's dominating and one that says he's really struggling.

[wolf754life]

TIME TO BUMP THIS, it was 7/12 of 2006

I WAS WRONG about the CLIPPERS

The SPURS AREN"T WINNING ANY LES, ANY TIME SOON!

[midgetonadonkey]

TIME TO BUMP THIS, it was 7/12 of 2006

I WAS WRONG about the CLIPPERS

The SPURS AREN"T WINNING ANY LES, ANY TIME SOON!

Nobody is winning a le anytime soon. The Finals aren't until June.

[ploto]

The Spurs have a chance in the next 2 weeks to show if they belong in the same conversation with Dallas and Phoenix or if they belong in the same conversation with the Lakers and the Rockets.

[mabber]

The Spurs have a chance in the next 2 weeks to show if they belong in the same conversation with Dallas and Phoenix or if they belong in the same conversation with the Lakers and the Rockets.

I fear a healthy Rocket team more than I fear the Spurs at this point. It's early though and I'm sure the Spurs will improve.

[wolf754life]

pretty damn quiet, considering how hard i got bashed for being realistic this summer!

[SAtown]

I didn't understand this thread until I saw the date on the thread, and I still don't get it.