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So what was the diffrenence between these two?
Just re-writing the words different your post?
Actually you got the Mavs line-up wrong, Harris will be the PG with Johnson as his back-up. (Minor point)
The moves alter the Mavs more then in just player moves. Harris wil now be the full-time PG and Terry the full-time SG. The two will be on the floor much more together this year then last.
Bottom line, they plan on playing speed ball all year long. This will effect the Spurs series because it will not be something that we will "try" but something that we will have been doing all year long.
As to the Questions
1) Have the Mavs clearly surpassed the Spurs with their transactions this summer?
In terms of just transactions ... Yes. They have signed their players (the ones they wanted) and traded to fill voids, however small.
If one is to say that the Mavs were the better team last year, then ... Yes, they are still the better team ... based on the moves.
2) Is the Spurs' roster as it stands as good as their roster was at the end of last season?
No, even if Butler and Elson are a wash with Rasho and Nazr (remains to be seen), the entire team is a year older .... Thats alot of age adding up.
3) Would you be confident against the Mavs next season if neither team made any more moves? If not, what moves do you think the Spurs need to make?
As a Mavs fan I am very confident. The Spurs need someone to guard Howard, thet didn't get that person, though Griffen would help.
Harris, Terry, Howard, Nowitzki, Diop
Parker, Manu, Bowen, Duncan, ?Butler?
Thats pretty close.
Johnson, Stackhouse, George, Crosher, Dampier
Udrih, Barry, Finley, Bonner, ?Elson?
Thats not even close, even putting in Williams, Vaughn, or Horry doesn't make it close. I do think that it is worth noting that the current Spurs centers wont see the floor vs the Mavs anymore then the last two ... They have no one to guard, until the Spurs take Bowen off of Nowitzki and trust the job of guarding him to someone else, it creates a situation that will keep Butler, Elson and Oberto off the floor.
So what was the diffrenence between these two?
Just re-writing the words different your post?
Questions:
1) Have the Mavs clearly surpassed the Spurs with their transactions this summer?
With their overall youth, athleticism and new-found confidence, I believe the Mavs had a slight edge.
2) Is the Spurs' roster as it stands as good as their roster was at the end of last season?
Push
3) Would you be confident against the Mavs next season if neither team made any more moves? No.
If not, what moves do you think the Spurs need to make?
Sign either Qyntel Woods or trade for Trevor Ariza.
High and tight with some serious mus .
You sold me at the first insinuation.
If they are worse than Atlanta, they won't make the playoffs. The point is that we don't know how many regular season games the Spurs will win with Elson/Butler upfront yet. So they might not even be in position to meet Dallas in the playoffs. That's why I choose to wait and see.
Butler might not be ready to be a full time starter.
Elson might not defend or rebound consistently in a starting role.
Spurs could end up with Oberto starting.
Anyway to answer the questions.
Questions:
1) Have the Mavs clearly surpassed the Spurs with their transactions this summer?
Yes. They were already better than the Spurs and they have improved their roster.
2) Is the Spurs' roster as it stands as good as their roster was at the end of last season?
Wait and see. It depends on if Elson/Butler = Nazr/Rasho.
3) Would you be confident against the Mavs next season if neither team made any more moves? If not, what moves do you think the Spurs need to make?
Not at all. They didn't get by them last year and haven't address issues of rebounding, getting a younger bench, or bringing in an athletic forward (long 3/athletic 4 or whatever you want to call it).
addition
Johnson, George, Croshere, Ager, Buckner
loss
Armstrong, Daniels, Van Horn, Griffen
The third string point guard spot is an ungrade, but not by much. Either way its pine time and really no help.
Griffen for Buckner is a wash.
So, the real issue comes down to Van Horn and Daniels for Croshere and George.
Dallas looses a lot from Van Horn to Croshere. Croshere can't hit the outside shot anymore and is slow of foot. Van Horn was slow too, but when he was healthy he could always hit the big three. I think they will miss Van Horn's offense from the bench.
The real damage occurs wth George who is older and slower and no where near the energy that Daniels provides. I believe that Dallas has actually slowed themselves a bit with this trades and in no way have they improved. The loss of Daniels alone drives home this point.
So, I believe Dallas has actually taken a step back. Has the Spurs moved back as well? That answer will be decided by the play of Butler and the still impending trades that will eventually occur with Barry and Williams. These trades may not happen until near the trade deadline during the season.
The real team to worry about in the west is the Suns. A healthy Stoudamire and Nash will win his first ring. Dallas has nothing that can compete with that and unless Butler can play out of his mind the Spurs will have trouble too.
Do you really think that Spurs won't make the playoff next year ?
The loss of Rasho/Nazr won't turn Spurs into a lottery team : if Spurs without Manu can be 12/5 last year, I have no doubt that Spurs without Rasho/Nazr will be able to win at least 50 games.
Butler is an upside guy, he can be a bust.
Elson is a solid player : he has played more minutes than Rasho or Nazr last year and has started more games than Rasho or Nazr.
A crazy way to turn the thing :
If Elson, who plays a lot of minutes last year, is able to make the playoffs with denver, will he be able to make the playoffs with a better supporting cast in SA ?
My point :
Spurs are talented enough with Duncan/Parker/Manu/Bruce/Finley/Pop to beat 80-90% of nba teams : we beat Sacramento who was a matchup nightmare only with our talent.
Spurs really need to matchup well against the other 10-20%.
Where did I say they won't make the playoffs. I'm not saying they won't be in the playoffs. I'm saying we have no idea if they will meet Dallas in the playoffs -- meaning they could get knocked out before meeting Dallas.Do you really think that Spurs won't make the playoff next year ?
The loss of Rasho/Nazr won't turn Spurs into a lottery team : if Spurs without Manu can be 12/5 last year, I have no doubt that Spurs without Rasho/Nazr will be able to win at least 50 games.
I don't think Elson is a solid player. He does some things well -- run and hit jumpers. But he's not a good rebounder, defender, or shotblocker. He doesn't have good hands. Maybe all those things will change in San Antonio, maybe not.Butler is an upside guy, he can be a bust.
Elson is a solid player : he has played more minutes than Rasho or Nazr last year and has started more games than Rasho or Nazr.
A crazy way to turn the thing :
If Elson, who plays a lot of minutes last year, is able to make the playoffs with denver, will he be able to make the playoffs with a better supporting cast in SA ?
So far, yes. They got a backup pg that is better than our 2 backups combined. They upgraded Griffin/Daniels with Buckner/George/Ager. And I must be the only one who thinks Croshere is an upgrade over KVH. He shoots 3's and rebounds and won't buckle under pressure like KVH.
They still have a roster spot open. I'm not sure if they s/t KVH for that player or sign a guy like Pops who they liked during summer league.
It's hard to say. I'm tempted to say no.2) Is the Spurs' roster as it stands as good as their roster was at the end of last season?
Right now, we're hoping that Elson/Butler prove they're at least as productive as Rasho/Nazr were during the season. What if they're not? Does Pop sit them during the playoffs too?
I like Bonner as a scrappy/3 pt shooter. Williams is a question mark. Does he have enough left in the tank for spot minutes? I just don't see those minutes after Bowen/Finley.
I like Vaughn as a 3rd pg. I do like that signing. Beno is who I'm concerned about. I just can't believe he's going to be given the chance to win the backup role. Even if he proves himself in camp, how long before Pop yanks him back to the doghouse?
And we still haven't addressed the long athletic sf the FO pointed out as a need. Melzer sounds interesting but could he really be the answer?
Other than Butler and Bonner, we've not addressed getting younger either.
I guess August 21st will be a telling day.
We'll have to see what the new additions bring to the table.3) Would you be confident against the Mavs next season if neither team made any more moves? If not, what moves do you think the Spurs need to make?
I'd like to see them upgrade Barry/Oberto/Udrih/Williams.
I don't see where you guys think Stoudamire is going to return to form.
Players after this surgery NEVER return to form.
The third string point guard spot is an ungrade, but not by much. Either way its pine time and really no help.
Griffen for Buckner is a wash.
So, the real issue comes down to Van Horn and Daniels for Croshere and George.
Wow, this is completely wrong.
Starters - Harris, Terry, Howard, Nowitzki, Diop
Johnson becomes the #2 PG and Buckner the #2 or #3 SG (depending on Agers development)
Armstrong (No minutes), Danials (No minutes), KVH (Often injured), Griffen (offensive liability)
For ..
Johnson (#2 PG), Buckner (Shooting and Defence makes him an upgrade over Griffen and maybe the #2 SG), Croshere (Same game as KVH but more healthy; #2 PF), Goerge (Injury insurance), Ager (Showing good things to this point and will see some minutes this year at SG)
I would make that trade in a heartbeat.
I don't really think too much about the Suns, they are going through the biggest "IF" of any team in the NBA.
When you have said : "The point is that we don't know how many regular season games the Spurs will win" , I've thought that you think that Spurs won't make Playoffs. My bad if I haven't well understood.
Maybe but the loss of Rasho/Nazr won't be a huge loss against a lot of western playoff teams : when Duncan defend the opposite center, Rasho/Nazr are quite useless.
Quite agree, Elson is a downgrade from Rasho or Nazr. By solid, I mean that he is nba proven (even if he wasn't very good).
As I said before, you don't play with 6 or 7 players at the same time.
So let's say you are AJ : make the minute breakdown for Dallas in a Spurs-Mavs playoffs series ?
Yeah this is obviously going to be a gimmick season. Mavs got way better, spurs were worse before, now even more behind the curve. lol.
Gimmick season?
I must have bee watching players with fake names on the back of their jerseys. George, Croshere, clutch? Are you serious? They will miss two for every one they make. Buckner better on Manu? Did anyone see the first round v. the Nuggets last year? Can't believe the doom and gloom. I watched a lot of Mav games last year and they got every break imagineable...down big and came back...shots going in the last second... that is not going to happen every year....just like the Pistons came back to earth at the end of the season. Can't wait to get it started. Then the speculation can go away.
PG - Harris (30), Terry (10), Johnson (8)make the minute breakdown for Dallas in a Spurs-Mavs playoffs series ?
SG - Terry (20), Buckner (20), Stackhouse (4), Ager (4)
SF - Howard (30), Stackhouse (10), George (8)
PF - Dirk (35), Croshere (10), Stackhouse (3)
C - Diop (24), Dampier (24)
Of course if Buckner, Stackhouse or George gets hot they will absorb minutes from the other two.
Mavs' minutes/game in the Mavs - Spurs series
D. Nowitzki - 44.3
J. Howard - 37.7
J. Stackhouse - 35.0
D. Harris - 31.6
M. Daniels - 12.8*
E. Dampier - 24.6
D. Diop - 15.4
J. Powell - 0.7
D. Mbenga - 1.3
K Van Horn - 2.3
D Armstrong - 1.7
Griffin - 5.7*
* significant number of minutes from game that Terry missed for nut shoting Finley
So who's going to sit giving these prized acquisition all the additional floortime? Dirk? Stackhouse? Terry? Harris? Mavs have to keep the sumo wrestlers Diop and Dump on the floor to mug Duncan with.
Last edited by picnroll; 07-25-2006 at 07:20 PM.
Thanks AJ.
Thanks for giving Terry who scored 20ppg against us only 30mpg while he can play 38 mpg.
Thanks for giving Stackhouse who scored 16ppg against us and hurt us with his physical style of play only 17mpg while he can play 30 mpg.
Thanks for giving Dirk who scored 27ppg against us and give us a matchup nightmare only 35mpg while he can play 42 mpg.
Thanks for giving Howard who scored 16 ppg and grab 7 rpg only 30 mpg while he can play 36 mpg.
Thanks AJ, your 2007 Mavs > 2006 Mavs.
The tides have totally changed; instead of the mavs fearing us and not wanting to play us, now its us who don't want anything to do with them. All we have to do is hope the new seeding system prevents us and them from meeting too early.
Thats the luxury of our team ... If your hot ... you play more, if your not ... you don't. The Mavs had different people step up in most games. Sometimes its Harris, others its Terry and more often then not Stackhouse. If your hot, you play more, if not, you don't. How many minutes did Stackhouse get in "off" games? Only Dirks minutes are set in stone.
With Stackhouse ... I think that he will be traded before the deadline ... He has a ruff contract.
i wouldnt worry about Buckner in the playoffs
Buck went 6 from 27 from 3 pt land during the first 4 games vs the Clippers. The only time he hit at a decent clip was during game 5 where he hit 4 from 5. The only reason he hit four from 5 was coz the Nuggets were down 20+ and he hit a few in the 4th qtr
He Even managed a game where he went 0-8 and one where he went 1 from 7. Id rather KVH raining bombs over Buck
If i was a Mavs fan, id be more concerned about the impact that Frankie will have against them in the playoffs, instead of thinking Buck will help them in the postseason
Wanna see the effetciveness of Buck on D?
http://www.nba.com/statistics/player...DD=vs%20Denver
SG's OWNED the Nuggets. Even an injury riddled Manu put up 18.7 on them.
Dont overrate Buck and make the same mistake as some of us Nuggets fan made
1. No. They've improved the bottom of their rotation by adding some nice backups. Barring key injuries or outright boredom, they should win more games in the regular season, and they should also be a somewhat tougher matchup in the postseason. Which still doesn't mean they've clearly surpassed us.
2. In the power rankings? Maybe not. We might only win 59 or 60 games next year. I don't think that's the issue, because I don't think the number of games we win in the regular season is going to be an issue for anything except playoff seeding. We might have to play a series or two on the road next year if our wins drop off and Dallas and Phoenix really tear things up.
Against the team that sent us home? yes, we got better. We added a promising young center, and we added an older center whose main skill set seems to be the speed and mobility to play against quick Western Conference teams. His rebounding and blocking are pretty poor -- until you compare him with Michael Finley, who is the guy we had out there last year.
Yeah, based on regular season stats, we got worse. But here's a stat for you: 2 > 0. We have two centers that might earn minutes against the Mavs. Heck, even if Elson is a total face plant, 1 still > 0.
3. Confident? Of course not. But I'm not ready to write our team off yet, either. It should be another good dogfight.
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