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  1. #26
    Free Throw Coach Aggie Hoopsfan's Avatar
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    Do you have any evidence they are doped up on Opium?
    It's been widely reported that this is going on. No, I'm not going to go hunting for a link. Watch the news or read a paper sometime.

    On both sides, if children are raised to hate then no solution will ever be developed.
    If your kids couldn't go outside in the yard without worrying about a bomb landing on their head, or going to the mall/cafe without some nut walking in and blowing him and them up, they'd probably be pissed too.

  2. #27
    Marilyn Rae Lover jochhejaam's Avatar
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    And for the last time, Palestinians using kids isn't right...and neither is this . Why don't you guys get that? Like Manny said stop trying to justify this .
    1. You started a thread about Jewish kids signing bombs and labeled it as being "sick".

    2. No one's trying to justify the missle signing. (in the scope of what's transpiring in the M/E, it wasn't even worth mentioning).

    3. You equivocate this missle signing to the Muslim/Islamic terrorists indiscriminate and intentional murdering of innocents by stating that "both are wrong". The two acts should not be mentioned in the same breath! There's no comparing them!

    4. Your obvious hate-filled, bigotted bias against Jews and Israel would be aptly described as "sick".

    5. There's no place in the human race for people that wish for the destruction of a Nation that merely wishes to live in peace.

  3. #28
    Believe. gtownspur's Avatar
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    What moral justification do pakis have in condemning israel?

    Sincerely

    -Random Indian Guy,

  4. #29
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Man, like clockwork Joch pulls out the Anti Semite card. You could seriously tell time by it.

  5. #30

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    It's been widely reported that this is going on. No, I'm not going to go hunting for a link. Watch the news or read a paper sometime.
    Why should I?

    You're making the claim. Just back it up.

  6. #31

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    What moral justification do pakis have in condemning israel?

    Sincerely

    -Random Indian Guy,



    Let's not get into India vs Pak...I plan on sleeping sometime tonight.

  7. #32

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    [B]

    3. You equivocate this missle signing to the Muslim/Islamic terrorists indiscriminate and intentional murdering of innocents by stating that "both are wrong". The two acts should not be mentioned in the same breath! There's no comparing them!

    4. Your obvious hate-filled, bigotted bias against Jews and Israel would be aptly described as "sick".

    5. There's no place in the human race for people that wish for the destruction of a Nation that merely wishes to live in peace.
    Wow.

    You got all that out of my first post? You...my friend are Mr. Cleo.

  8. #33
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Palestian children have been used by certain groups. It is pretty well do ented. However, most Palestinians outside of those groups responded with outraged. It is not something that the majority agrees with, so I don't see how it bears any relevence in this conversation one way or the other.

  9. #34
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    Man, like clockwork Joch pulls out the Anti Semite card. You could seriously tell time by it.
    Your not supposed to criticizing Israel - says so in the Bible.

  10. #35
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    If we're going to sit here and talk about the use of children, be real about it. The Israelis use children as well and involve them in this conflict when it is outright wrong.


    http://www.child-soldiers.org/do ent_get.php?id=966

    Israeli security forces
    Child recruitment and use
    The Israeli intelligence services (Shabak)
    continually seek to recruit children as informants.
    A field survey with former child detainees
    conducted in 2003 by Defence For Children
    International-Palestine Section (DCI-PS),
    estimated that 60 per cent of the children
    interviewed, some of them are as young as 12,
    were reported to have been tortured or subjected
    to other forms of coercion or inducement in an
    attempt to make them cooperate.3 By late 2003
    in Gaza alone there were on average 40 attempts
    to recruit minors every month. In January
    2004, a 17 year old was arrested at the Rafah
    crossing between Gaza and Israel, questioned
    about his and his family’s political affiliations,
    and reportedly beaten and threatened until he
    agreed to inform on his family. After his release,
    he handed himself over to the security forces of
    the Palestinian Authority. Travel or work permits
    may be offered in exchange for information. In
    February 2004 a 16 year old was detained on
    his way to work through the Erez checkpoint
    and, when he refused to be an informant, was
    photographed being hugged by an intelligence
    officer. He later agreed to cooperate after he was
    threatened with publication of the photo, but was
    subsequently arrested by the security forces of
    the Palestinian Authority.4
    The Israeli armed forces were reported to
    have used children as human shields. On 22 April
    2004 soldiers reportedly made a 13-year old
    boy sit for four hours on the front of their armed
    jeep, with his arm tied to the windshield, to stop
    stones being thrown at them by demonstrators
    protesting at the building of the separation wall
    in Biddo
    .5
    Despite its commitment to uphold the UN
    Convention on the Rights of the Child and
    the Optional Protocol on the involvement of
    children in armed conflict, Israel failed to meet
    its obligations under these treaties to provide
    special protection for children in armed conflicts.
    The Israeli armed forces frequently failed to
    distinguish between civilian and military targets,
    resulting in a high number of child casualties. The
    Israeli authorities said that most children were
    killed while actively engaged in combat.11 Detailed
    do entation indicates that the majority of
    deaths did not occur in demonstrations or in
    armed combat.12
    Palestinians use kids too. It's really pretty damn sick.

    Armed political groups
    There was no evidence of systematic recruitment
    of children by Palestinian armed groups, which all
    publicly opposed the use of children in combat.
    However, children receive military training and
    are used as messengers and couriers, and in
    some cases as fighters and suicide bombers in
    attacks on Israeli soldiers and civilians.21 All the
    main political groups involve children in this way,
    including Fatah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the
    Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine.22
    Testimony from child members of armed
    groups suggests that they were recruited
    voluntarily and that children in the most difficult
    social and economic cir stances were often
    the most eager to participate.
    25 In a handful of
    cases, it was alleged that children were tricked
    into involvement or unwittingly used in attacks.26
    Armed groups reportedly supplied locally made
    explosives to children. At least three children died
    and four were injured in Gaza in early 2004 while
    using homemade explosives.2
    That right there is the best proof you should ever need to how you start to solve this situation.

    Hamas called for an end to the use of children
    in armed attacks and suicide missions on a
    number of occasions.33 In April 2002 Hamas
    called on imams “to mention this issue in their
    sermons” and on educators “to address this issue
    without sacrificing the enthusiasm or spirit of
    martyrdom of our youth”.34 However, in March
    2003 Hamas leader Abd al-Aziz al-Rantisi, who
    was killed by Israeli forces on 17 April 2004,
    declared, “If a boy is 16, he is a man. He is a
    mujaheed, a holy warrior, engaged in jihad”.35
    The Hamas armed forces, the Izz al-Din al-Qassam
    Brigades, were implicated in several attacks
    by under-18s, including a suicide bombing by
    17-year-old Khamis Gerwan near Arial in August
    2003.36 Several 16- to 18-year-olds were killed in
    attacks on Israeli settlements that allegedly had
    Hamas backing.37 Hamas claimed responsibility
    for attacks by children as young as 15.38

  11. #36
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childre...inian_conflict

    The Israeli response to the deaths, injuries and arrests of Palestinian children has been mixed. Many individuals and organizations within Israel have condemned what they claim is a systemic disregard for the well-being of Palestinian children. Others, including the Israeli government and the Israeli Defence Forces, have expressed sympathy but deferred responsibility and blame to the Palestinians. This deferment has been on four primary grounds: that the deaths of children are a regrettable consequence of war; that Islamic militants use children has human shields or deliberately locate themselves in civilian areas during fighting; that children are used as child suicide bombers by Palestinian militant organizations; and that children engage in acts of extreme violence toward Israeli forces and civilians.

    Several Israeli and international human rights groups have refuted the latter two claims by collecting statistics that have shown the majority (between 64.4% and 87.7%) of Palestinian child fatalities were killed in cir stances in which they were clearly not involved in any hostilities or clashes with Israeli forces.

  12. #37

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    That's some good info, thanks Manny.

  13. #38
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    At what age is a child to young to fight? 10? 13? 16? I think 18 is to young. Clearly, both sides have used kids in acts of violence against each other, just as both sides have bombed primarily civilian targets.

  14. #39
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    I just wonder how naive the collective group is...

    Children being taught hate?

    I think parents that shield children from their own biases are few and far between...because biased people seldom see themselves as being biased. And even if they do...they seldom see their bias as unjustified.

    Does a racist avoid racial comments around his child because he doesn't want his child to be a racist? Uh no...if he was capable of that kind of thought he wouldn't be a racist.

    No he will teach his child racism because he thinks it's in the child's best interest.


    Now strapping a bomb to your child and sending him out to die...

    That's ed up. That's incredibly ed up...it's by far more ed up than passing your own biases on to your kids.

    It's sending your child to die.

    The fact that it's somehow seen as a different side of the same coin as teaching kids hate is what scares me...

    If I have kids, I probably will pass my biases on to them...and if it's strong enough bias I might probably even do something that would cross the line of good parenting...

    But sticking a bomb on them and sending them out to die for my belief?

    That I would never do...

    Killing your child is pretty much the worst thing you can do to him...


    Do you think NBAdan and boutons tell their kids that political parties are just differing viewpoints and neither are truly right or wrong, and that the child should form their own opinion?


    All this is nothing new and it's probably done less now than it has been done historically.

    Not excusing it...but I'd be willing to bet that just about every parent either intentionally or unintentionally attempts to pass their biases on to their children. And if the culture is a violent one and the bias is strong enough....


    I am pretty sure this sort of thing has happened in America before BTW...I mean kids being fed and used for propaganda purposes.
    Last edited by whottt; 07-29-2006 at 01:16 AM.

  15. #40
    Marilyn Rae Lover jochhejaam's Avatar
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    Man, like clockwork Joch pulls out the Anti Semite card. You could seriously tell time by it.
    The Anti-Semite card?
    I've mentioned it about two posters over the 12 months I've posted in the forum and you can tell time by it?

    One of the two is you, who has openly proclaimed your "hatred" for the Nation of Israel and has said that you could care less if they and the Palestinians killed each other off. (although I haven't recently insinuated that your hatred is for the Jews. I agree that your hatred, as stated by you, is for Israel in general and not anti-semitic)

    The other is PDBM who was asked if he beieved the Nation of Israel had a right to exist and replied that 'his answer to the question should be obvious
    based on his comments about them'. That's anti-semitic.

    Now, expound on your assertion that you can "tell time by it".

  16. #41
    Marilyn Rae Lover jochhejaam's Avatar
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    Wow.

    You got all that out of my first post? You...my friend are Mr. Cleo.
    Nah, onlly the points regarding the missles, the rest was obtained from your posts in the "War" thread and your comments that I cited in post #40 of this thread.



    Other excerpts from the War thread
    QUOTE=clambake: Until Israel is accepted as a soverign state with the right to exist, all of this is an exercise in futility.
    QUOTE=Please_dont_ban_me: Who made them a sovereign state with the right to exist?
    Feel free to clarify your position if what I've said is incorrect.

  17. #42
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    You busted it out on NBADan as well. And I believe there are other instances of you at least alluding to it, but I digress. You've at least come to the conclusion that my beef is indeed with the government of Isreal and not the Jewish faith or nor people of Jewish decent.

    As for me not caring about whether or not these 2 cultures destory themsevles, I should clarify because you constantly fall back on this. This is not a situation which our society has ignored. It is a situation which has indirectly led to the deaths of many Americans and a situation in which neither side wants to work to a long term solution at this time. I think the Arab nations and Palestian leaders have really screwed the Palestian people several times (in 45 and when Araft refused the offer given to him are the worst cases of this) but I also believe that Israel has much to perpetuate and continue the current situation. In otherwords, both groups share DEEPLY in the blame for the the problems.

    Because of that, I feel if is a problem they should solve. They US needs to stop with the excessive material/monetary/military support of Israel and let them deal with the problems they have shared in creating. At some point, enough is enough. I've reached my threshhold. If they can't learn to live with each other, then THEY must live with the consequences.

    The people of this country are indifferent and ignorant of the vast majority of conflicts across the globe where people are enduring great suffering. Sure, 10 years after a massacre we feel moved by movies like Hotel Rwanda but we continue to flat out ignore the suffering of people in Africa. We do nothing to help these people. We're afraid to call genocide by its name because it may commit us to act out. The people of this country couldn't care any less what happens in these places, yet we devote so much to Israel. Why?

  18. #43
    Homer 2centsworth's Avatar
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    yet we devote so much to Israel. Why?
    The hollocaust for one. Secondly, they are at the center of the fight against terrorism.

    We should directly do something about the people of Darfur. Indirectly we're in a fight against radical islam.

    Also, what is the UN doing for the people of Darfur? I thought the rest of the world had the moral authority to care for the people of Darfur. Why is everyone waiting for the "evil" United States to fix it?

  19. #44
    Uno, Dos, Tres, Catorce... Ya Vez's Avatar
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    I know its not like the sectarian violence in africa is any different then the one between jews and arabs.... don't people read the news, history... alot of the sectarian violence happening now in africa is also cause by radical islamofacist..... exported from where?

  20. #45
    Senior Member ShackO's Avatar
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    The Anti-Semite card?
    I've mentioned it about two posters over the 12 months I've posted in the forum and you can tell time by it?

    One of the two is you, who has openly proclaimed your "hatred" for the Nation of Israel and has said that you could care less if they and the Palestinians killed each other off. (although I haven't recently insinuated that your hatred is for the Jews. I agree that your hatred, as stated by you, is for Israel in general and not anti-semitic)

    The other is PDBM who was asked if he beieved the Nation of Israel had a right to exist and replied that 'his answer to the question should be obvious
    based on his comments about them'. That's anti-semitic.

    Now, expound on your assertion that you can "tell time by it".

    If someone does not believe Israel should exist does that make them anti-Semitic???

    If some doesn’t believe Kurdistan should exist are they anti-Kurd??

    If someone does not agree with sending billions of “your dollars” to Ireland are they anti-Celtic???

    What his views are I don’t know, nor care, but far to often ppl are shouted down for speaking out against the things they have done……..

    I tell you now they have no “right” to exist….. By might and might alone they or any nation on earth has ever existed……

    DO they have some “right” to that land………. Yea as long as they have the power to keep it……

    By what right does the US have New Mexico??? They took it from Mexico… Mexico took it from Spain… Spain took it from the “Indians” and those “Indians” took it from some other “Indians”…….. So then how has “the most right”?????

  21. #46
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    You guys are aware that Muslim children are taught from birth that Jews drink the blood of non-Jewish children on Passover.

    Just checking.

  22. #47
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    All of them?

  23. #48
    I love J.T. smeagol's Avatar
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    When Israel deliberately targets women and children, get back to us pdbm.

    Till, then, the Muslim terrorists, in my book, are the sickests people in the planet.

  24. #49
    Veteran velik_m's Avatar
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    When Israel deliberately targets women and children, get back to us pdbm.

    Till, then, the Muslim terrorists, in my book, are the sickests people in the planet.
    Israel may not target children, but it sure doesn't care if they kill some.

    terrorist are bad people, whether they are muslim, atheist, christian or jewish.

    and nazis are far sicker than them.

    ---------------------

    More than 40 people, including 20 children, have been killed in an Israeli air strike on the southern Lebanese town of Qana.

    Displaced families had been sheltering in the basement of a site which was crushed after a direct hit.

    The US secretary of state has cancelled a visit to Lebanon as its prime minister says he will only discuss a full and immediate ceasefire.

    Hundreds of protesters are staging a violent demonstration in Beirut.

    ...

    Qana was the site of an Israeli bombing of a UN base in 1996 that killed more than 100 people sheltering there during Israel's "Grapes of Wrath" offensive, which was also aimed at destroying Hezbollah.

    Before Sunday's attack, the UN said some 600 people - about a third of them children - had been killed by Israeli action in Lebanon since their operations began 19 days ago.

    Story from BBC NEWS:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/h...st/5228224.stm

    ----------------------------

  25. #50
    Marilyn Rae Lover jochhejaam's Avatar
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    [QUOTE]
    If someone does not believe Israel should exist does that make them anti-Semitic???
    Unless they deny it, and PDBM hasn't done so, yes, it does.

    If some doesn’t believe Kurdistan should exist are they anti-Kurd??
    Yes (that one was easy)

    If someone does not agree with sending billions of “your dollars” to Ireland are they anti-Celtic???
    They're anti-sendingourtaxdollarstoIreland. (I believe I'm aceing the test so far)

    What his views are I don’t know, nor care, but far to often ppl are shouted down for speaking out against the things they have done……..
    You can get "shouted at" but you really can't get "shouted down" in a blog.


    I tell you now they have no “right” to exist….. By might and might alone they or any nation on earth has ever existed……
    On the face of it, this statement is senseless. Perhaps you can expound on this one.

    DO they have some “right” to that land………. Yea as long as they have the power to keep it……
    You're confusing the power to take and "keep" something with the legal rights to something.

    By what right does the US have New Mexico??? They took it from Mexico… Mexico took it from Spain… Spain took it from the “Indians” and those “Indians” took it from some other “Indians”…….. So then how has “the most right”?????
    Possession is 9/10's of the law, so we do.

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