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That's inhumane. Prisoners should be given something to live for/keep entertained. I disagree with much of his policies, but the idea generating revenue from inmates is a good idea.
For kicks... I looked up Phoenix...
http://phoenix.gov/haht-bin/hsrun/pa...selectAnalysis
1996:
205 Homicides
759 Sexual Assualts
10966 Violent Crime Total
123205 Total Crimes
1997:
125 Homicides
802 Sexual Assualts
11263 Violent Crime Total
129969 Total Crimes
1998:
226 Homicides
778 Sexual Assualts
11007 Violent Crime Total
122207 Total Crimes
1999:
250 Homicides
803 Sexual Assualts
10388 Violent Crime Total
110407 Total Crimes
2000:
169 Homicides
678 Sexual Assualts
9755 Violent Crime Total
110258 Total Crimes
2001:
247 Homicides
665 Sexual Assualts
10721 Violent Crime Total
116021 Total Crimes
2002:
240 Homicides
612 Sexual Assualts
9605 Violent Crime Total
121474 Total Crimes
2003:
254 Homicides
757 Sexual Assualts
9816 Violent Crime Total
122047 Total Crimes
2004:
238 Homicides
824 Sexual Assaults
10503 Violent Crime Total
131052 Total Crimes
2005:
238 Homicides
824 Sexual Assaults
10782 Violent Crime Total
12136 Total Crimes
First Half 2006:
127 Homicides
695 Sexual Assaults
5836 Violent Crime Total
58240 Total Crimes
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There appears to be no significant or discernable trend over the last 10 years... and any trends would need to controlled for national and regional trends, population growth, etc. So, please don't draw any conclusions other than you can say there has been no major drop off in the number of crimes in Phoenix in the last 10 years.
Last edited by scott; 08-05-2006 at 01:36 AM.
That's inhumane. Prisoners should be given something to live for/keep entertained. I disagree with much of his policies, but the idea generating revenue from inmates is a good idea.
WTF happened in 97????
Not good numbers but not the recidivism rate either........ How many of those murders and sex offenders were repeaters???
It wouldn't appear to be much of a deterent.......... Most criminals don't plan on getting caught..........
Actually, it's the county stir, not a penitentiary. There are people there who are simply awaiting trial, and will be acquited. Medical treatment should also never be withheld.It's not his job to determine guilt or innocence, it's his job to house those found guilty.
Is that actually the case? I understood only convicts were in the tent city and that the people awaiting trial are in a regular jail.
You're right, Kori. The net effect, however, is that Joe gets his sadistic rocks off, and the moron voters of Maricopa county, plus idjits like whottt, get entertained. Doesn't look like it does a damn thing about crime...
When asked by a reporter if he had any lecture series by a Democrat, he replied that a democratic lecture series might explain why a lot of the inmates were in his jails in the first place.
Doesn't Phoenix have a police department? And wouldn't the city of Phoenix be their responsiblity?
Plus this guy was elected in 1992...not 96.
Last edited by whottt; 08-05-2006 at 12:37 AM.
I wonder how many repeat offenders they have and what the recidivism rate is.
I also wonder what the crime rate by the inmates within that jail is...Drugs, sexual abuse etc....compared to other jails.
I'd be willing to bet both are extremely low.
And finally I wonder that their success rate is in solving crimes and aprehending criminals.
Last edited by whottt; 08-05-2006 at 12:38 AM.
Most criminals don't count on getting caught...but it's when they do that what he does will have an impact IMO.
The pleasantness of your jail stay can be a life changing experience for a lot of guys.
I bet even the most hardened of criminals leave that place swearing to go back to jail...in fact I'd be willing to bet that everyone that spends anytime in that tent jail leaves vowing never to be stupid enough to return.
I'd rather be homeless than be in that jail....that's not true of a lot of jails.
I went back to 1996, because that's all it let me.
I'm having trouble deciphering what your first two sentences where supposed to mean... but I'll give it a try.
Yes, Phoenix has a police department. No, it is not the police department's responsibility to deter crime. The job of a police department is to apprehend criminals when a crime is committed.
Is it the job of the legislature to establish laws that deter crime, the judicial system to enforce those laws that deter crime, and the penitentiary system to efficiently run a system that deters crime.
The judicial and penitentiary systems don't simply exist to exact revenge upon those who have committed crimes - they exist to do their part in detering future crimes. Making prisoner's suffer does nothing to reverse the damage that has been done to those who have been victimized by crime. The main benefit from an effective judiciary and jail system is the people who are saved from being victimized in the future. A system that does nothing to deter crime isn't worth the time, effort or money.
PS:... should read 125 murders in 1997... has been corrected.
Anyway...my point was, well it's going to be lost since you don't think peace officers are supposed to deter crime...
I can't say for sure how Phoenix and this county work...
But generally, the Police Department has jurisdiction within the city, over the county and therefore the number of crimes commited within Phoenix are their responsibility....not the Sheriff's Department.
So the Phoenix crime stats don't have a whole lot of bearing on how well the Sherriff's department is doing it's job.
I could be wrong...the county might have jurisdiction over the PD anywhere in the county, but it wouldn't be the norm.
But if it's like Austin then a substantial number of criminals convicted of crimes in Phoenix will serve time at the country jail....
And I do think a jail being miserable rather than comfortable is a deterrent...at least to first time offenders.
Last edited by whottt; 08-05-2006 at 02:28 AM.
That's correct for Phoenix/Maricopa County. I have a lot of Phoenix police officers in my family.But generally, the Police Department has jurisdiction within the city, over the county and therefore the number of crimes commited within Phoenix are their responsibility....not the Sheriff's Department.
Still no info on the recidivism rate ........????
How many of those murders and sex offenders were repeaters is really what it is all about!!!!!!!
I found a blog site that claimed the recidivism rate is 15% compared to the national rate of 85%...but I don't put much stock in those numbers since they weren't linked to an official site....and 85% seems just a tad high for the national recidivism rate.
Is it odd not to find that info anywhere???
You would think it would be deep in ink...........
Tell me then how a police department goes about deterring crime. If your point was to say that the jail system for crimes committed in the city of Phoenix is not the county jail system - then that's a good point. I don't know the answer to that. But if Phoenix criminals end up in this county jail, then Phoenix crime trends are very much an indicator of how this jail system is working (not the same as "how the Sheriff's dept is doing it's job").
Anyway...my point was, well it's going to be lost since you don't think peace officers are supposed to deter crime...
I can't say for sure how Phoenix and this county work...
But generally, the Police Department has jurisdiction within the city, over the county and therefore the number of crimes commited within Phoenix are their responsibility....not the Sheriff's Department.
So the Phoenix crime stats don't have a whole lot of bearing on how well the Sherriff's department is doing it's job.
I could be wrong...the county might have jurisdiction over the PD anywhere in the county, but it wouldn't be the norm.
But if it's like Austin then a substantial number of criminals convicted of crimes in Phoenix will serve time at the country jail....
And I do think a jail being miserable rather than comfortable is a deterrent...at least to first time offenders.
I agree that a jail being miserable is probably a deterrent. I know I sure wouldn't want to be in one. Whether or not it has actually served as an effective deterrent, is another matter - and would make an interesting statistical survey (for which I have neither the time or particular interest in this instance). One would think the death penalty would be an effective deterrent, but it has shown not to be.
I think you'd have to fix society before you'd see "a lot less crime." Just a hunch, but I figure most felons probably didn't have the best childhood.
Did a lot of research on this a while ago, pretty interesting.
There is no reduced rate in repeat offenders from tent-city or any significant detterance effect. It is, however, cheap to run. By cutting out luxuries and eliminating the need to construct a large prison, it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to house the inmates.
I like the idea soley based on the fact of putting less of the budget into the prisons system. Most states can't even finance new prisons and face massive overcrowding problems.
The inmates are forced to wear pink undergarments and the prisoners also pay for their own meals. Just some tidbits. Laters. Maybe I can find my book and give hard numbers on stuff.
Oh yeah, and don't bother quoting Wikipedia. That article is slanted to be anti-tent city. Find some cold hard numbers and facts.
Last edited by sabar; 08-06-2006 at 05:15 AM.
Aside: Punishment is not an effective deterrant to crime. Even things like having more police officers on the beat has no effect of detering crime. A study in Kansas City where additional police officers were placed on patrols showed no change in crime rate. The only change in reported crime happened when there were zero officers on patrol. Jail time and capital punishment have also been shown to have no effect on preventing crime.
Murders will go to any end to get their task accomplished. Fear of the death penalty or 100 years in prison. Same thing essentially. Hardened criminals and people that commit violent crimes will do so to any end.
I'd bet if the penalty for speeding was death, most people would still try and get away with it.
I would also guess that the population has grown over the past 10 years.
I would also guess that I already mentioned that.
the population has almost doubled in that time.
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