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Yep:
among his many notable achievements was his selection as a Nobel Peace Prize Laureate for his part in the negotiations leading to the Treaty of Portsmouth that ended the Russo-Japanese War in 1905.
Ah, the patron-saint of old school Republicans. T.R. loved San Antonio.Theodore Roosevelt 1907
Yep:
among his many notable achievements was his selection as a Nobel Peace Prize Laureate for his part in the negotiations leading to the Treaty of Portsmouth that ended the Russo-Japanese War in 1905.
Yeah, that turned out well.
wow... scaryIn the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin.
But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American ... There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all.
We have room for but one flag, the American flag ... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language ... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.
Okay, put another way, we should not allow our government to facilitate an emigree's ability not to assimilate.
1) Make English the official language of the United States.
2) Don't provide any government service or publication in any other language.
3) Deport those who are here illegally.
4) Arrest those who harbor or transport illegal aliens for money, fine the rest.
5) Don't provide welfare resources to non-citizens.
That'd about do it.
these first two are MORONIC! what the do you think they are going to accomplish?1) Make English the official language of the United States.
2) Don't provide any government service or publication in any other language.
Assimilation.
Question Manu, does Argentina produce do ents in languages other than Spanish? Are there (since I don't konw) a large influx of Brazilians needing Portuguese translations (even though when I worked in Brazil, Spanish was passable for them to understand)? How about folks from China or other Asian countries that would require translations to languages they can understand?
Assimilate to what? What group are you using as your standard to which these immigrants must assimilate?
Is there a large Chinese speaking population in Argentina?
In my work experience in South America, not only are countries importing Asian workers, but the Chinese government is making large in roads into some of those countries (Forestry and roads/bridges). I'm not looking to throw rocks at Manu, I was just curious to see if Argentina had language/immigration issues to deal with, and how they were dealing with them.
I don't know how one can begin to accurately profile "muslims" in any meaningful way. I mean, you could begin with investigating those who have a "middle eastern" look, but radical muslims aren't just "middle eastern." You could expand that to include those who have the earmarks of the stereotypical radical muslim, but of course, the 9/11 gang showed that it's rather easy to convincingly change one's appearance to apparently assimilate, if one wanted to. I guess you could expand that even further to include those with "middle eastern" surnames, but I don't suppose that a name like Richard Reid would have aroused much su ion in that scenario.
Maybe we should compel individuals to disclose their religious preferences when buying airline tickets -- or, better yet, compel such disclosures for the purposes of issuing state or federal identification cards.
In other news, XENOPHOBIA rules!
Humiliating and marginalizing people is the fastest way to create new extremists, as Gitmo and Abu Gharaib et al. demonstrate. Take a moderate and subject him/her to the above and you get an extremist.
Thank you for some sense there RG.
I totally disagree with your premise. To "assimilate" suggests that somehow the person must be Borgified, entirely lose their iden y, which is absurd. No-one can move from one place to another and instantly understand the language and cultural rules of the new place. We are not the Borg, nor should we want to be, so forcing people to "assimilate" is ridiculous. Adjust? Fine. Swear loyalty to? No problem with that either. And what actually happens is that people do slowly become one with their new surroundings and those new surroundings become home. It just can't happen overnight.
Also, do you realise you are espousing exactly what you despise! You claim all Muslims want to kill us, when you effectively want to do the same thing to the iden y of anyone who comes to the US!? Do you see the absudity of that?
What is wrong with people coming to our countries, becoming loyal citizens, but still retaining their religious/cultural heritage? Australia is becoming quite multicultural and I have friends, mostly 2nd-generation immigrants (ie. their parents came here 15-30 years ago), who retain some of the culture and language of their parents but are as Australian as I am. The speak with an Aussie accent, think like Aussies, behave like Aussies - THEY ARE AUSSIES! However, they were not forced to "assimilate" as you describe it.
If you look into the history of immigration, that is the typical path. The first generation arrive in their new country, struggle with language and culture but create a better life for their kids (often by opening businesses or doing menial jobs for 16 hours a day). The second generation grow up in Australia/US and are as Australian/American as you and I, but also have an understanding of their heritage through their parents. What the is wrong with that?
You know what the irony here is...who do you think does most of the back-breaking, soul-destroying menial labour in the US??? It sure ain't the white middle-class... it's recent IMMIGRANTS, both legal and illegal.Okay, put another way, we should not allow our government to facilitate an emigree's ability not to assimilate.
1) Make English the official language of the United States.
2) Don't provide any government service or publication in any other language.
3) Deport those who are here illegally.
4) Arrest those who harbor or transport illegal aliens for money, fine the rest.
5) Don't provide welfare resources to non-citizens.
That'd about do it.
Taking away the massive population of underpaid, underprotected cheap immigrant labour in the US would have a disastrous effect on your economy, not to mention the other side of the equation which is the demand created by those people for basic goods and services. You'd actually be shooting yourself in the foot.
Your society is not in trouble because of the immigrants, they actually revitalise and diversify a culture and an economy. It is the moral vacuum, the lack of meaningful direction, the immense luxury taken for granted that afflicts the entire developed world.
Shortly before the fall of Rome, its reach had gone as far as it could and the populace became obsessed with their own comfort. Today, we stand on the same precipice, only the stakes are far higher, global-scale.
Last edited by RuffnReadyOzStyle; 08-23-2006 at 11:30 PM.
Great spirits have always encountered opposition from mediocre minds.
The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly.
Albert Einstein
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48727
Irish, did you even bother to read what I wrote?
The left are the ones "who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly", the right controls the entire frame of the debate!
How long has your family been in the US? 4 or 5 generations? Mine is a 5 generation Australian family.
We come from immigrant nations, we all emigrated here in the recent past fer christsake. And guess what, your people and the Italians were persecuted by the locals less than a century ago when you all started flooding to America... shall we continue the cycle, or try out something better?
BTW- I was in Sidney in December 1968, however as a young GI on R&R
from Nam, I didn't get out of the Kings Cross Area, excpet for a Dinner
with a family from Philly that had settled there.
I was in a Bar and the Bartender told me my money was no good. I wasn't
allowed to buy drinks, they loaded me in a taxi and sent me to my hotel
somewhere around 4 in the morning. Good times
Last edited by BIG IRISH; 08-25-2006 at 02:12 AM.
What I have in mind is not blindly believing that all Muslims are subhuman killing machines and instead welcoming the people who come to our countries (remember, they are carefully screened by our govts before they are allowed to enter), offering them help to adjust, and rebuilding communities and connections between communities in general.
I'm suggesting not writing people off because of their colour or creed, and giving them a chance to become loyal, productive members of our societies as the vast majority of them, INCLUDING OUR PARENTS, have done. As I wrote above, by the 2nd generation, immigrants are generally as Aussie/American as you or I. I have seen this first hand growing up!
Anyway, whatever. If I have to spell it out it has no chance. Obviously I am the crazy one here.
I don't believe that "ALL' Muslims are subhuman killing machines, but I do believe that the majority of Muslims are devout and do not stand a chance
to be productive members of an american society.
Maybe in your country, they are screened carefully, not in mine.they are carefully screened by our govts before they are allowed to enter), offering them help to adjust, and rebuilding communities and connections between communities in general
The first thing they get is a fistload of credit cards and government/small business loans, that most 4th and 5 generation americans, Blacks,
American Indians,Mexicans, cannot get!
It would be nice to get along with everyone, but It is not going to happen.
No matter how many right wingers are waiting for the War in the ME to be over so they can go save the Heathens! or how many liberals think if just Bush was not President this would all go away..
IMO the difference in Religion, Greed, Want for Land/resources, Culture,Skin tones, along with Close minded individuals, both from the left and the right.
will allow the world to continue as it has for years: but the muslim religion is a threat to the american way of life.
Yeah, you know what, I guess our countries are in very different situations too. I don't agree with what you say, but then I'm not American.
However, the one idea I totally oppose is that Islam is any more dangerous than any other religion... to me, extremism is the enemy, in any religion or ideology. Extremist terrorists have come from every religion, even Tibetan buddhists in the 50s resisting CHina resorted to guerilla and terorist tactics. It is poverty, persecution and injustice that pushes people to extremism.
I KNOW peaceful Muslim people, and they are just like peaceful Chistians, Mormons, Buddhists, etc. I live in the same building as a Muslim family. They are good neighbours. One of my best friends in Okinawa was a New Yorker from a Muslim family who was just resigned to being strip searched every time he went through the airport. This guy loves breasts and beer and baseball - he is as American as any American I know!? There is not an ounce of terrorist in him yet he is persecuted for his looks and name.
I just wish my country would get out of your wars and start focusing on our own country and region.
I just wish my country would get out of your wars and start focusing on our own country and region I can understand that, However I am thankful
that your country has been in "OUR" wars, i.e, WWII & Nam. The world would be quite different had in not, trust me.
While I can agree with a point of view, that not all Muslim are bad. I do believe the the Muslim religion, itself teaches extremism. To say that all Muslims are bad would be like saying all Irish are drunks.
I still feel that the True Muslim religion is a threat to the American Way of life and you would have to rip that idea from my mind and replace it with something else.
G-Day
Mate
Last edited by BIG IRISH; 08-25-2006 at 03:24 AM.
I would replace "True Muslim" with "extremist Muslim".
U mean G'Day!
Hey pal.
WWII we all had to be in, and fair enough. Vietnam I can't really comment on, it was before my time and I don't know which history to believe. But the two gulf wars and Afghanistan... we shouldn't be there. We have East Timor, Fiji, the Solomons and PNG to worry about, not to mention those genocidal Indonesians (what they are doing in West Papua and Aceh is di able).
Sadly, Australia has fought in every major war for the last 120 years, first for the Brits, then the US. We should keep more to ourselves like NZ and Canada. We have anough work to do peace-keeping the Pacific Fringe.
I'm not so sure about Afganistan, but I agree that you have your hands full enough at home.I would replace "True Muslim" with "extremist Muslim".
U mean G'Day!
Hey pal.
WWII we all had to be in, and fair enough. Vietnam I can't really comment on, it was before my time and I don't know which history to believe. But the two gulf wars and Afghanistan... we shouldn't be there. We have East Timor, Fiji, the Solomons and PNG to worry about, not to mention those genocidal Indonesians (what they are doing in West Papua and Aceh is di able).
Sadly, Australia has fought in every major war for the last 120 years, first for the Brits, then the US. We should keep more to ourselves like NZ and Canada. We have anough work to do peace-keeping the Pacific Fringe.
Psssssssst Maybe just a little bit more of isolation by America would be nice.
Oh -here comes the liberals and the New World order-repubs.
Big Irish, please read the words in bold. So, are you going to assimilate and become American or continue to identify yourself as Irish?
That's cultural aquisition not assimilation.
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