But aren't those electors the senators and congressmen, who in turn were elected by the people?America is still not democratic.
Ever hear of the electoral college:
The United States Electoral College is the name of the group of Presidential Electors who are chosen every four years to cast the electoral vote and thereby elect the President and Vice President of the United States.
The "electoral college" was established by Article Two, Section One of the United States Cons ution, which provides for a quadrennial election of Presidential Electors in each state.
The electoral process was modified in 1804 with the ratification of the 12th Amendment and again in 1961 with the ratification of the 23rd Amendment, and still sucks.
If we could junk the above than we might be real close to a democracy
but aren't those electors the senators and congressmen"
no. that's what they do in England, where the elected parliamentarians elect the PM.
electoral college electors are not the members of Congress.
In the closely divided and deeply porlarized USA, the electoral college is more like in the future to have popular vote opposite from electoral vote, as it was in 2000 by 600K votes more for Gore.
Again, Iran once had the voice of the people, imperfect as it was -- not too unlike the US was imperfect as we have pointed out. We just didn't like what they were saying -- namely threatening to nationalize their oil industry -- so we helped to stop it. Then the people spoke again twenty years later by overthrowing the Shah and now look what we have.
If Islam is so an hetical to democracy, how do you explain Kuwait since 1962? In the past two years, its elected parliament has given women the vote and actually removed the hereditary Emir during a succession crisis. Pretty extraordinary stuff.
And how about Turkey, that has had multiparty elections since 1945 and women's suffrage since 1929? There has been the occasional miitary coup replacing weak, instable governments, but they have always managed to return to civilian control in time. It took nothing short of a revolution there to remove many of the oppressive aspects of traditional Islamic law, but Turkey's population is still 99% Muslim.
Democracy in Islamic lands is not impossible, but it will be heavily influenced by Islam and won't be exactly what we think it should be, but that's what happens with self-determination. There are definitely huge obstacles to it in a place like Iraq, many caused by its arbitrary borders that have thrown together three groups that may be better off trying to install democracies in three seperate states.
But both examples you gave are not countries I would associate with having 'theocratic run' governments. And Iran..... well, let's just say that their government has lost the will of the people. And yet the people can't do anything about it.
So fundamentalist theocracies can't be democracies.
Wow, that's deep.
What's next? Dogs can't be airplanes?
You are right (for once)....
The number of electoral college votes matches the number of elected (congressmen + senators)... but the electoral vote of a state goes directly to the candidate who won the state on the popular vote count.
I can't say the system is without its flaws.
Last edited by hegamboa; 08-31-2006 at 11:27 AM.
Now we're on the same page.
The electoral college is a great idea, as it gives smaller states a bit more voice in the national debate, and keeps seccessionist movements at bay.America is still not democratic.
Ever hear of the electoral college:
The United States Electoral College is the name of the group of Presidential Electors who are chosen every four years to cast the electoral vote and thereby elect the President and Vice President of the United States.
The "electoral college" was established by Article Two, Section One of the United States Cons ution, which provides for a quadrennial election of Presidential Electors in each state.
The electoral process was modified in 1804 with the ratification of the 12th Amendment and again in 1961 with the ratification of the 23rd Amendment, and still sucks.
If we could junk the above than we might be real close to a democracy
hegamboa, you sound like there is no other way to run a government besides using a democratic way and more so it sounds like you want to shove down your beliefs onto other people. So far you sound more authoritarian than democratic.
I've just expressed my views on some democratic principles.... I've not expressed anything remotely implying how to enforce or establish said ideology... so your assessment of my stance in said light was rather premature and incorrect...
Turkey is a secular country and their is freedom of religion.
Other countries are surrounded by other Muslim countries, i.e. SA, Yemen
By the way, Pakistan and India don't get along and in Nigeria there are constant problems between Christians and Muslims.
Niger is not Nigeria.
Huh?
Nigeria has religious problems between Christians and Muslims. I don't know about Niger.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger
you learn something new everyday.''Niger'', officially the ''Republic of Niger'', is a landlocked Sub-Saharan country in Western Africa, named after the Niger River. It borders Nigeria and Benin to the south, Burkina Faso and Mali to the west, Algeria and Libya to the north and Chad to the East.
I successfully responded to the question by BIG_IRISH if there are any Muslim countries that are not attacking anybody. Well so far I read up and Nigeria does have some Muslim and Christian conflicts, so okay scratch off Nigeria And I already know that Pakistan and India didn't get along that's why I said:
Pakistan (They don't like India, but they're not at war with them)
Also, Pakistan and Afghanistan border China. Yemen borders Eithiopia.
Niger, Algeria, Morroco, Egypt all border countries in Africa that are not predominatly Muslim. Indonesia borders Papa New Guinea.
http://eprentice.sdsu.edu:16080/j023...d-Map-1200.jpg
Also, the land masses are all also seperated by religon as well. Some areas have dominant Christian countries and other countries other religons, which I also think keeps peace around. Starting from the left you have Christianity, Islam/Judasiam, then Hinduism/Buddihism. ALSO:I am not saying that if the United States or Britain/France bordered Yemen they would start to attack them.
Last edited by E20; 09-02-2006 at 11:29 PM.
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