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Melo is still more valuable over chancey. The reason Billups has a championship ring is because the Pistons had a better team.
If Melo had a better supporting cast, he would have won too.
C'mon, in the championship years Manu was alot more effective than Parker in those games. Parker couldn't even shoot, he was intimidated by the bigger opponents and was scared to play in the big games.So wrong but so funny
Manu, on the other hand, played defense, showed grit and determination, and was way more clutch than Parker can ever dream of. Every time the Spurs went into a hole, Parker did not bail them out. That's why I say Manu is alot more valuable than Parker.
Melo is still more valuable over chancey. The reason Billups has a championship ring is because the Pistons had a better team.
If Melo had a better supporting cast, he would have won too.
C'mon you are wrong on almost everything.
let's see :
Parker was better than Manu in 03 (Palyoffs stats : 14.7ppg for Parker, 9.4ppg for Ginobili). Parker was quite good in 05 playoffs too (17.2ppg).
Parker has worked a lot on his jumpshot and has a reliable mid range jumpshoot since the ASG. Don't live in the past.
Parker was better than Ginobili against Lakers (14.8ppg against 11.7ppg) and he was a 20 years old PG.
Wrong, a general manager will take Parker over Ginobili because :
- Parker is 24, Ginobili is 29.
- Parker can still improve.
- Parker has way less injuries than Ginobili.
- Parker is a PG : PGs are more difficult to fing than SG.
- Parker is able to play 35mpg, Ginobili can't play more than 30mpg.
- Parker was better than Ginobili in 2006 and it will be likely the same thing in the following years.
Sure, Manu is our starting PG and Parker is our starting SG.
Pass first PG aren't better than shoot first PG, PG aren't only on the court to pass the ball, they have the right to score. Parker is a great shoot first PG and a shoot first PG isn't at all an undersized SG.
Ask Bibby this year or ask Pistons after game 7.
In every sentence you claim things that are false. If you are a Parker hate, at least, be a clever one.
That's your opinion. I'm just giving mine.
The reason why Parker averaged more than Manu in the 03' year because he was the starter. Manu was a bench player.
If we're bringing out stats, then here it is:
Manu was better than Parker in the '05 playoffs averaging 20.8 points per game. Parker was averaging 17.2 points per game.
Manu barely played 30 minutes per game and he still managed to be more effective in other areas than Parker (points, steals, rebounds, etc.). Not to mention, Ginobili does all the little things that don't show up in stats - Hustle, boxing out defenders for a rebound, etc.
Parker has developed thanks to the Spurs shooting doctor. At the NBA level, he should have already have learned how to shoot. It just goes to show how pathetic Parker's game was. In all the clutch moments, Parker was not on the floor in the crucial game costing moments - '03 Dallas series and '05 Seattle series. Pop trusted Manu to be in the floor than Parker.
1. Parker may be younger than Ginobili but Ginobili has the veteran experience. You can't replace that.
2. Parker COULD improve. You don't know until it happens. Ginobili can raise his stats too if he had the ball as much as Parker does.
3. That's an opinion. Not a fact. Power Forwards and Centers are the most valuable. All the best teams had the best power forwards and centers. Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Shaq, and Tim Duncan.
4. The reason Ginobili can't play more than 30 mpg is because Pop pulls him out of the game. It's not Gino's fault.
5. Ginobili was injured in most of 2006. Injuries happen. It will be test to see if Parker will be good again this year. Last year might have been a fluke.
Bibby doesn't play defense. In fact, who was Sacramento's best defender (Artest, in case I have to spell it out for you) guarding who? Oh yeah, it was Ginobili.
Ask Bibby this year or ask Pistons after game 7.
What would the Pistons say? They'll say don't double team Manu 'cause he'll pass it out to Horry.
Whatever, dude.
Last edited by BERSERK; 09-25-2006 at 04:49 PM.
It was more than an opinion. Facts can be denied.
So you go from "Parker did not win the '03 and '05 championships, Ginobili did." to Manu was really good in 05. Interesting ....
Parker enters in the league at 19. You can't expect that a 19 years old player has all the skills to play in NBA.
Using a shooting doctor to improve your jumpshot isn't pathetic : it's clever. Tell that to Steve Kerr and Grant hill who work with the same shooting coach.
Parker was 20 years old in 03 and he was on the floor during the crucial moments against Seattle in 05 (check your facts).
1. You build a team around young players, not old one. Parker has shown some good leadership in 06. BTW, Parker : 16500min in nba, Ginobili : 10000min in nba.
2. A 24 years old player has more upside than a 29 years old player.
3. Ginobili isn't a PF or a C. It's a fact that PG are harder to find than swingmen.
4. Ginobili with his crazy style hasn't the stamina to play 35mpg. Pop has no reason to pulls him out of a game since he is Spurs' better swingmen.
5. Parker has raised his stats every year except one since 5 years. Last year is far from being a fluke. Manu's 05 year looks way more like a fluke than Parker's 06 year (even if I don't think that manu's 05 year is a fluke).
Do, you say that Parker is "overmatched" because he can't score : it's just ridiculous, check his stats.
Artest wasn't guarding Ginobili because he was more dangerous than Parker. A player can't guard players from PG to SF. Artest is a SF : he will mainly guard the best opposite swingman.
Horry shoot was in the game 5 not in the game 7.
Sorry but when you give your opinion, at least based it on true facts and not false facts.
More like your facts are exaggerated. I'm just stating the obvious.
You're the one who brought up player stats. The reason why I'm bringing up Ginobili's 05 stats is because we're going to base it on Manu and Tony as starters. It makes the argument more arguable on who's effective on their minutes.
Oh now you're saying it's unfair to compare '03 Parker to '03 Ginobili because Parker was a young rookie. It just goes to show now you're pulling the age card as an excuse to justify Parker's weak playoff performance.
On game 6 in the final secons, who was that gave Tim Duncan the winning play? Manu. Not Tony. Check your facts!
Ginobili was winning les when he was the Euro league. He certainly would have won more championships for the Spurs if he was brought in at a young age too.
Why just because he's younger? experience can be a plus too.
Youth is not always an answer. Go ask the Charlotte Bobcats how they're doing with their championship caliber team.
No, you said which position is valuable. I just stated which position do I think it's more valuable. I know Ginobili isn't a Power Foward or Center. Read my message again. Where do you read where I said that Ginobili is a power forward or center.
So you're saying Pop would rather have a well rested manu than well rested Tony.
Again you're making it seem like your opinion is a fact. We don't know if Tony will have another good year. The reason why Tony had a good year was because Tim and Manu were banged up all year long. As the Spurs other scoring option, he has the opportunity to do good on that.
No, I say Tony is overmatched if you consider player matchups on other teams, not scoring.
You would be a terrible GM. If you have the best defender on your team, you have cover your dangerous opponents.
why do you think Pop has Bowen cover the most dangerous opponents of the other teams.
Then you admit Ginobili's play was crucial to game 5. Where was Parker?
There wouldn't be a game 7 if we had won game 5. Remember that. Also Ginobili's and Tim Duncan's effort in Game 7 was what won the championship.
Stop your BS, Bruno.
A fact is fact. Your opinion is exaggerated.
Parker wasn't a rookie in 03 and Parker was better than Manu in 03', your point is moot.
Parker was on the floor, check your facts.
It take times to buld a winning franchise from scratch and that's why you need young players who can stay with you for a long time.
BTW, Bobcats are doing a great job.
No. I've said "PGs are more difficult to find than SG"
Manu is a SG, Parker is a PG : PF or C have nothing to do in this argument and you have started to speak about PF or C.
No. Parker can play 35mpg during 100 games/year, Manu can't. Plain and simple.
Tony has had a lot of good years. The last was better than the previous.
That's why parker is an allstar and is considered as a top5 PG ?
First, a coach make defensive assignements, not the GM.
Never heard of what a matchup is ?
Bowen don't cover the mostt dangerous opponents : against Minnessota, he doesn't defend Garnett...
Sorry to be harsh : either you have a very limited BB knowledge or you're just a troll to say things like "If you have the best defender on your team, you have cover your dangerous opponents."
So you say that Parker has always the ball in his hands (and that's why Manu stats aren't good) and when he doesn't have the ball in his hands you say "Where was Parker?".
All your posts are a joke. Try to read slowly so you don't hurt yourself.
Parker did not do a better performance than Manu. If you remember the time, every time Parker would mess up Pop would pull him in. It's basically what Pop is doing with Beno now. Any error = no playing time.
You're overlooking the important message here.
Manu = clutch.
Parker = choke.
Parker did not bail out the Spurs when they were in a hole. It was either Tim or Manu. Nothing more, nothing less.
If all you have is young rookies, then you're destined to fail. You need some veteran experience in the mix to turn a franchise around. Not all rookies will turn into the next Magic Johnsons, Lebron James, Tim Duncans, Shaqs, etc.
Again you're overlooking the obvious. In MY OPINION, PF or C are more valuable than the point guards.
With whatever time manu has, he uses it effectively (offense and defense).
Again you're trying to predict the future. You don't know if Tony or Manu will have another good year. In that past 3 years performances from the two players, I'm saying that Manu is valuable than Tony.
From what source? Any list that's out now is subjective.
Again you're the one proving to be limited to your Basketball knowledge. If you're a good defender, you're capable of defending anyone.
If you forgot, Bowen was the one who was capable of defending 7 foot tall Dirk in these playoffs.
Yeah because Parker hasn't shown anybody that he's clutch. Parker is not clutch.
This discussion is going nowhere so I ended it. If you want to read more about the subject, there are a ton of Parker/Ginobili threads on this board.
I don't want to be unkind with you but that is one of the dumbest thing, I've ever read on this board. You seriously lack of BB knowledge and I don't say that to hurt you.
Then you're admitting you have nothing to fall back on.
Again you'll say anything to sooth your broken pride.
Discuting with you is just a waste of time because you are clueless about BB.
Re-read this discussion and you will see how all your points were destroyed.
My pride won't be broken with a discusion on internet (where I'm right furthermore).
BTW, It's my last post to you. End of the discussion.
Yeah like the last post was your last message. I made good points in my posts and you're just finding words to misinterpret.
Starting an argument and not finishing it doesn't mean you won, Bruno. It means you ran out of stuff to make up. So turn tail and run.
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