Josh Howard

[ShoogarBear]

'moron alert'

[Dirk41MVP]

are you my new fan or something ? you're quoting posts of other threads into this one... stalker.

[Kori Ellis]

are you my new fan or something ? you're quoting posts of other threads into this one... stalker.

Stop with the "gay" and " " talk in every post. If you are sexual, that's fine -- we don't mind. But stop talking about it.

[ShoogarBear]

Who could have ever guessed the latest Village Idiot would be a Mav Fan?

I mean, what are the odds?

[jman3000]

all this "we can get any free agent we want" talk... i thought that was reserved for laker fans...

[Obstructed_View]

actually I disagree. They traded barbosa (duuuumb) and passed on jho, two solid players that would be helping their team right now no question.

Who do you rather have Jho or nobody ? mm... bull if you say nobody. They had the pick, all they had to do was select him, and didn't even though he could be helping them right now. They don't want help with their team ?, bull

The Spurs traded out of the first round, and as a result, didn't have to pay a guaranteed contract to a pick. They were able to re-sign Ginobili less than a month later, and re-signed Parker in November. Both of them "helped" the team when they won the le the next year.

Not losing either of them is worth not having Barbosa or Mr. Time Out IMHO.

[AFBlue]

The Spurs traded out of the first round, and as a result, didn't have to pay a guaranteed contract to a pick. They were able to re-sign Ginobili less than a month later, and re-signed Parker in November. Both of them "helped" the team when they won the le the next year.

Not losing either of them is worth not having Barbosa or Mr. Time Out IMHO.

If the Spurs had used their late first round pick, I doubt it would have had any affect on their considerations for signing 2 of the big 3. After all, the starting salary would be less than a million bucks.

The bottom line is that they chose to save money because they didn't like either Howard or Barbosa for that gauranteed amount.

All I'm saying is that if they knew then what they know now, they'd have drafted Howard in an instant. He would have had no effect on the decisions to re-sign Parker and Ginobili position-wise, and we would've had the long-term 3/defensive replacement for Bowen in the line up. That's a dream scenario that never took place, and because everyone else now realizes how good this kid is, it probably never will.

[orhe]

hmm josh howard is overrated... the guy scores because dirk attracts so much attention and creates match up problems... i like prince better

[LEONARD]

LOL...JHo isn't going anywhere...

[FromWayDowntown]

If the Spurs had used their late first round pick, I doubt it would have had any affect on their considerations for signing 2 of the big 3. After all, the starting salary would be less than a million bucks.

You say that, but IIRC, the front office nearly balked at paying Parker $2 million more over the life of his 6 year deal -- the Spurs offered 6 years/$64 million; Parker requested 6 years/$66 million. Until some pressure was brought to bear on the pursestrings, that $333,000/year difference was too much.

And given how unwilling the Spurs have been over the last few years to stray much from the luxury tax threshold, I'd say it's almost a certainty that having Howard or Barbosa hanging around on a rookie deal might have cost the Spurs Ginobili or Parker. Neither of those would be good trades -- I wouldn't trade Parker for Barbosa and I wouldn't trade Ginobili for Howard.

[ShoogarBear]

Neither of those would be good trades -- I wouldn't trade Parker for Barbosa and I wouldn't trade Ginobili for Howard.

I'm nost sure there's all that much difference between Barbosa and Parker in talent or game impact.

Parker is a better penetrator and more durable and mature (the latter probably has to do with the better coaching)

But Barbosa is a better shooter.

There might not be such a noticable difference for the Spurs if Barbosa could be counted on for 38 minutes a night.

[FromWayDowntown]

I'm nost sure there's all that much difference between Barbosa and Parker in talent or game impact.

Parker is a better penetrator and more durable and mature (the latter probably has to do with the better coaching)

But Barbosa is a better shooter.

There might not be such a noticable difference for the Spurs if Barbosa could be counted on for 38 minutes a night.

I understand what you're saying, Shoog. I still wouldn't trade Parker for Barbosa straight up.

[ShoogarBear]

Oh, yeah, I agree. Just noting that they probably have similar impacts.

[AFBlue]

You say that, but IIRC, the front office nearly balked at paying Parker $2 million more over the life of his 6 year deal -- the Spurs offered 6 years/$64 million; Parker requested 6 years/$66 million. Until some pressure was brought to bear on the pursestrings, that $333,000/year difference was too much.

And given how unwilling the Spurs have been over the last few years to stray much from the luxury tax threshold, I'd say it's almost a certainty that having Howard or Barbosa hanging around on a rookie deal might have cost the Spurs Ginobili or Parker. Neither of those would be good trades -- I wouldn't trade Parker for Barbosa and I wouldn't trade Ginobili for Howard.

I could deal in hypotheticals all day....

If, and I think it's a big "if", you're right and the Spurs would have declined to pay TP or Manu, surely the Front Office is good enough that it would not have lost them without compensation. Let's say it was Tony...

Parker traded to team x for a lottery draft pick...Spurs draft Chris Paul. Then you go from being the "international" team to the "wake forest" squad.

[AFBlue]

The Spurs traded out of the first round, and as a result, didn't have to pay a guaranteed contract to a pick. They were able to re-sign Ginobili less than a month later, and re-signed Parker in November. Both of them "helped" the team when they won the le the next year.

Not losing either of them is worth not having Barbosa or Mr. Time Out IMHO.

BTW, I just looked this one up. It should be clarified that Parker's extension wasn't signed until well over a year later, Nov 2004. Don't know if that has much bearing on the decision to pass on Howard or Barbosa, but it's FYI.

[Obstructed_View]

BTW, I just looked this one up. It should be clarified that Parker's extension wasn't signed until well over a year later, Nov 2004. Don't know if that has much bearing on the decision to pass on Howard or Barbosa, but it's FYI.

Then I'm completely wrong, because Manu was signed in '04 as well. So that would have been a few months after drafting Beno. My bad.

[Obstructed_View]

So what that basically means is the Spurs passed on Howard and Barbosa so they could draft Beno. How's that feel, Spurs fans?

[FromWayDowntown]

The pick that became Barbosa was sent out in the summer of 2003 for the purpose of clearing every bit of cap room possible to make runs at Kidd and the other free agents of that summer.

The pick that the Spurs acquired for the pick that became Barbosa was turned around to New York in the Rose-Mohammed deal.

So, in a sense, passing on Barbosa or Howard netted the Spurs Rasho Nesterovic and Nazr Mohammed . . . . er, Matt Bonner, Eric Williams, and a 2nd round pick, plus significant cap space going forward. Or something like that.

[AFBlue]

The pick that became Barbosa was sent out in the summer of 2003 for the purpose of clearing every bit of cap room possible to make runs at Kidd and the other free agents of that summer.

The pick that the Spurs acquired for the pick that became Barbosa was turned around to New York in the Rose-Mohammed deal.

So, in a sense, passing on Barbosa or Howard netted the Spurs Rasho Nesterovic and Nazr Mohammed . . . . er, Matt Bonner, Eric Williams, and a 2nd round pick, plus significant cap space going forward. Or something like that.

...take it easy bud, that was four seasons of "Lost" in one post. I'm totally turned bass ackwards.

Nah man, I get what you're saying. In the end, it is what it is...we don't have Josh Howard, probably never will, but we won one championship without him and my guess is that if we keep making smart personnel decisions we'll be in the hunt for a while.

Would've been nice though...

Oh well, maybe we can go out and snag a guy who is so dejected in his current position and who's stock couldn't be any lower right now...Michael Pietrus. I bet we could trade Barry for Pietrus and a scrap if he keeps putting up numbers like he has in the pre-season.

[ducks]

LOL...JHo isn't going anywhere...

just like nash was not

[SenorSpur]

Howard's emergence shouldn't be a surprise. He is doing the same things in the pros that he did in college - only he's doing it better.

As we saw from the recent playoff series, the Spurs had NO ONE to matchup with him. When they moved Bowen over to guard Howard, Dirk goes wild and vice versa.

The bottom line is the Spurs passed on a player that could have helped them tremendously for many years to come. Had they taken him, we wouldn't be having this often-discussed topic of who will eventually replace Bowen.

It worries me that the Spurs do not seem to place the same premium on domestic talent as they do on international talent. Players of Howard's caliber do not often "fall into your lap" at the end of the first round. The fact that the Spurs passed on him was flat-out stupid. Now to see him flourishing in a Mavs uniform only adds "insult to injury". For an organization that is as shrewd and smart as the Spurs are, they "screwed the pooch" on this guy.

[AFBlue]

Howard's emergence shouldn't be a surprise. He is doing the same things in the pros that he did in college - only he's doing it better.

As we saw from the recent playoff series, the Spurs had NO ONE to matchup with him. When they moved Bowen over to guard Howard, Dirk goes wild and vice versa.

The bottom line is the Spurs passed on a player that could have helped them tremendously for many years to come. Had they taken him, we wouldn't be having this often-discussed topic of who will eventually replace Bowen.

It worries me that the Spurs do not seem to place the same premium on domestic talent as they do on international talent. Players of Howard's caliber do not often "fall into your lap" at the end of the first round. The fact that the Spurs passed on him was flat-out stupid. Now to see him flourishing in a Mavs uniform only adds "insult to injury". For an organization that is as shrewd and smart as the Spurs are, they "screwed the pooch" on this guy.

Yeah, what he said!

[Dirk41MVP]

If the Spurs had used their late first round pick, I doubt it would have had any affect on their considerations for signing 2 of the big 3. After all, the starting salary would be less than a million bucks.

The bottom line is that they chose to save money because they didn't like either Howard or Barbosa for that gauranteed amount.

All I'm saying is that if they knew then what they know now, they'd have drafted Howard in an instant. He would have had no effect on the decisions to re-sign Parker and Ginobili position-wise, and we would've had the long-term 3/defensive replacement for Bowen in the line up. That's a dream scenario that never took place, and because everyone else now realizes how good this kid is, it probably never will.

finally somebody that knows what he's talking about. Jho and/or barbosa would have costed the spurs less than 1 mill a year. That wouldn't have affected their chances of signing another player they wanted to extend. They didn't do their scouting h.w., and passed up on bright talent on arguably one of the deepest drafts in some years... you really think the spurs or any team for that matter would object to having jho or barbosa for less than 1 mill a year ?, don't be stupid. You don't pass up potential all-star talent for less than 1 mill a year for a couple of years. Jho is just as good if not better than ginobili and is younger than him...

just like nash was not

There's a difference, Nash was 30+ yrs. old and unrestricted, jho is 26 and restricted. And we never got anywhere with nash in dallas, this team just came off of a finals run, improving the chances of keeping the core together. Those 2 situations are completely different...

hmm josh howard is overrated... the guy scores because dirk attracts so much attention and creates match up problems.

GUESS HOW GINOBILI, PARKER, FINLEY, AND THE REST OF YOUR STUPID TEAM SCORES ALSO ?, EVERY WONDER HOW ?.. MMM... moron

EDIT: There's seems to be few smart people in this board, those two guys above me know what they're talking about, y'all should listen to them

[SenorSpur]

Just heard the local beat writer for the FW Star-Telegram on local Dallas Sportstalk radio. He claims there is about a 3-1 chance that Josh DOES NOT get his extension this year. The Mavs are content to allow him to play out this year and work a deal next summer.

Reportedly, J-Ho was "insulted" that the Mavs last offer was about $20 million less than that received by Tayshun Prince - which is the baromoter that Josh and his agent are using.

If this does happen, there is likely to be of no consequence because Howard is a RFA at the end of the year. The Mavs will likely match any offer he gets. Of course, there is a risk that some team will throw the bank at him.

[Kermit]

josh howard is a maverick, at least until they "finley" him. you know, stab him in the back.