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LMAO that he even gave us one chance. Rosen is a notorious Spur hatah. Yeah, Duncan at 30 is almost done...Didn't Kareem win one at like 40?
Rosen knows some things about basketball, but he continues to think he's an expert simply because he's friends with Phil Jackson. His basketball analyses of games are always filled with terminology that makes him feel smarter than the average fan even though he knows little more than real avid fans of basketball. And, his subjective articles like this one are always filled with misinformation and wrong facts.
Take for example how he describes Vince Carter as a "spry 31." Vince Carter is 29 years old, dumbass.
In his last article ranking coaches, he called Minnesota head coach Duane Casey Mike Casey.
I wouldn't go so far as saying he doesn't know anything. He obviously knows some things about basketball. But, it's far less than he makes it out to be.
LMAO that he even gave us one chance. Rosen is a notorious Spur hatah. Yeah, Duncan at 30 is almost done...
Some people talking sense. Wow, unbelievable. What's striking about this squad is that there are none of these players being developed on the team who can move into important roles. The above posters are exactly right: it has been since Parker came aboard that they acquired and developed a young player that worked out and wasn't a flop.
So much weight has been put on the overseas talent in the past, but this summer has basically torpedoed most of it. They said no to Javtokas - Elson is better. They determined that Scola will never be a Spur. Mahinmi looks miles away from being a productive NBA player, much less being a starter, and Sanikidze is similarly leagues away. We even find out Karaulov was someone they took a flier on because *ahem* Presti heard about him fifth-hand, when they could have drafted at that spot, uh, Jackie Butler.
We expected a lot to happen this offseason. Dump Rasho and Nazr, get some back-up PG help (hopefully), get back-up big men for Duncan, fix the rebounding problem, find a Bowen replacement, get some youth on the bench.
What happened? They did dump Rasho and Nazr, but got as replacement a dubious fleet-of-foot third stringer from Denver, and an untested project from New York. They got Jacques Vaughn (I was very happy with this). Did nothing to fix the rebounding problem, did not find a Bowen replacement, got no youth on the bench. This off-season was an utter strike-out. Grade? D.
The Chicago preseason game was eye-opening not because the Spurs lost - who cares? But because Chicago is teeming with young talent, exactly the pieces the Spurs need. Would I trade the 3 championships we've won post-Jordan for what they've not accomplished? No, of course not. But would I trade our future in the next five years for their future? I'd think about it, long and hard.
Obviously we have Parker, Ginobili and Duncan, and yes, we're going to compete for a championship banner this year, but after this season is over, things go downhill fast. Horry - gone. Bowen - one year closer to it. Finley - slower and slower. Barry - ineffective. No centers. We're not developing talent on the bench. Our overseas troops aren't much.
That's why people are concerned. You look across the way vs. Chicago and they were bringing in players - Thabo Sefolosha, Victor Khryapa - that we VITALLY NEED, that are deep in their bench. Those are players that take the load off Duncan's shoulders, that give him rest, don't strain him and risk injury for him.
So what happened? Why did the Front Office fail to keep this team going? Suddenly we look like the Los Angeles Lakers team we plucked in 2003. Sure, they had Kobe and Shaq, but the rest of the team was a shambles. Their guys were just old. Rick Fox, too old. Shaw, too old. Devean George, hurt. Horry, played too much. They had to fill in blanks with Medvedenko, Samaki Walker, Kareem Rush. Their point guard was Jannero Pargo.
That's us right now, or close to it. These are the last years of a dynasty team: the savvy veterans have long grey beards. It gets harder and harder to get young talent. The luck subsides.
It's not over, not by a longshot. But how long is it? Enjoy this year - we all will - but anyone with long term perspective can see this is the third act in a three act play.
While what Rosen has said is true, I believe he missed the point:
We, the fans, do not care about the future.
We do not care about long-term projections, where players are in relation to their "prime," or any number of factors that one would take into account when worried about a project's longevity. The NBA is entertainment. The NBA is a service provided to the population for the purposes of giving us something interesting to talk about, and socialize around. And we, in return, give the NBA money. It is a simple supply and demand.
If the end-goal of an NBA team is to win (because winning is what the fans want), why would a head office intentionally lose now to achieve the same thing later? If a core group of 30+ aged players produces wins during the season and puts fans in the stands, why change the formula? Isn’t that what they wanted?
For example, when a team rebuilds, they have understandably lost X percentage of the total fan support. Of the money spent on tickets and concessions and items with their logo. But if they win, which the process of rebuilding tends to insinuate (unless you are the Warriors), they only gain that X percentage back?
Teams only rebuild if the current formula does not work. It is like declaring bankruptcy. So why is Rosen even caring that the 76ers should have traded away AI a season ago? Did they really reach their lowest point? Did their monetary return on investment really slow to the point where it would make immediate financial sense to trade him?
I argue that teams should ride the wave as long as possible. So what if Finley is aging, Horry is on his last knee brace, and Bowen is one more 100+ game season away from blowing his cooling system? The fact of the matter is, the players the Spurs have right now have them winning. And as a fan, that makes me happy. That makes me want to continue to buy Spurs paraphernalia, and tickets to games, because I enjoy watching the Spurs win.
Of course everyone is going to burnout, just like every car will eventually be unable to start. But , if the thing moves, keep it moving. These teams don’t need to win or reboot. They need to win, even at a decreasing rate, in a pattern that could still span many seasons, until they have stalled in the middle of the street. It is then, and only then, that they can reboot.
If Horry retires, or Finley fades, or Ginobili gets hurt, or Bowen simply can’t take it anymore, the Spurs are still going to win. They will win less often than they are winning now, but they will still, by all accounts, be a successful franchise. And successful franchises make money.
Which is point Rosen missed making.
If I may speak for those of us (JGrice02, Phat Tony and Mr. Body) who have expressed concern with both the immediate and long-term future of this team, this aint about pessimism - this is about cold, hard, compe ive reality.
The Spurs have utterly failed in building the type of balanced roster that will allow them to remain chamiponship contenders in an ever-changing league beyond this year and next. Outside of the "big three", no one knows what this team will look like in two years.
Don't anyone give me that about the Euro talent overseas. I see highlights of Maceo Baston (formerly of Maccabi) in a Pacers uniform and I wonder, what happened?
I see Boris Diaw getting an extension with the Suns and I wonder, what happened? After all, if the Spurs scouted Tony Parker extensively, shouldn't they have known about Diaw too? , they played on the same team.
I see Luol Deng in a Bulls uniform and I wonder what happened?
I see Michael Pietrus in a Warriors uniform and I wonder what happened?
I see Josh Howard in a Mavs unifrom, and I KNOW what happened. You get the point.
How does an organization that is THE front runner in league scouting miss on all these guys. Of course, we know they cannot pay everyone, but when is the last time the Spurs have successfully drafted and developed a player in house? Beno Udrih?
It seems every team is drafting and developing young talent to replenish its roster - except the Spurs. And please SPARE ME the names of the EURO players who cannot garner enough consideration to warrant the necessary contractual "buyout" needed to get them over here. At this point, I don't give a about EURO talent. The fact is Spurs are overlooking "home-grown", domestic talent in this country at the expense of courting foreign talent that is in no position to help them win.
We all love our Spurs and want to see them succeed - not just this year but for many years to come. However, the FO is not abouve harsh criticism. The age of the current roster and the overall lack of long-term talent needed to replenish it is a MAJOR CONCERN.
some fresh takes, pal, that's all any of us ask. Bring a fresh take or two.
The Bulls had a lottery pick and we didn't?
That's your POV.
Check vegas odds to see that your POV isn't widely shared.
Spurs will be under the cap in 2 years.
Spurs fans are lucky, most nba teams fans are worried about this season, not the 08-09 one.
Baston is 30 years old average player. You can find player like that every year. Javtokas is too abeast on highlights.
Diaw wasn't available at the Spurs pick.
Deng wasn't available at the Spurs pick
Pietrus wasn't available at the Spurs pick and he isn't that good.
Hindsight...
Every franchise makes draft mistakes, Spurs is one of the franchise that make the less mistakes. Since you pointed that Howard is in a Mavs uni, don't forget too that they draft Pavel Podkolzin with the 21st pick
Just look at what psurs have done with their draft picks since Parker.
2001 : Parker
2002 : Traded for Claxton. Claxton has helped Spurs to get the 03 le.
2003 : Traded. Spurs get Nazr for this pick, he has helped Spurs to win the 05 le and they have too dump malik contract that will allow Spurs to reload them in 08.
2004 : Udrih. Not that bad when you look at the players available for this pick.
2005 : Mahinmi. Too soon to judge but this guy has upside.
2006 : Traded (see 2003).
If you want to that, Spurs should tank for Oden. With late first round pick, no capspce and a "cheap" owner rebuilding isn't that easy.
cough .... Parker and Ginobili ... cough
Spurs mainly use second round pick to draft euros. With this kind of pick, you don't get a quality player 90% of the time (even if he is american).
Let's trade Duncan, Ginobili and Parker for draft picks....
As stated above, unavailable when they picked, AND they did NOT play on the same team. Tony played for Paris Basket Racing, and Boris with Pau Orthez. I believe that Boris also pulled out of the draft at least once when it looked as though he might not make the first round. If you're going to rant, at least have your ing facts correct.I see Boris Diaw getting an extension with the Suns and I wonder, what happened? After all, if the Spurs scouted Tony Parker extensively, shouldn't they have known about Diaw too? , they played on the same team.
^ Parker and Diaw played in the same team in 98-99.
Long before the Spurs were scouting Parker, which was his misguided point.
I don't get his logic, Rosen said the Spurs roster is filled with old players that play prominent roles, while complaining that the young players are all just role players. So who is that really really old player on the Spurs who's not a role player?
I absolutely do not get what is going on. Could someone just tell me what would you rather have, 3 champions or young good players? If you want 3 championships, then please go ahead a name a team that went through 2 sets of championship contending core without any rebuilding. If you want young players, please list who the players the Spurs could have drafted and developed in the last 5 years.
That's not what anyone's saying. We're talking about today and the future, not the past. Of course no one is about to trade away the 3 rings. The question is: are you happy with it?
"The spurs will have the same players 3 years from now" -- essentially the logic you need to have to make this mae sense.
I think calling the Nuggets and Cavs contenders just now is generous -- and then doubly lame to list them here. Calling the Sixers "past their prime" is about as on a limb as saying "swimming might make your clothes damp"
Yes, I am. The difference is you think it's over, and I don't. The Spurs always do a good job of playing "Moneyball" and putting good solid players around their core. They're never going to be the big money free spenders in FA, but then again, what exactly has that gotten the Knicks or Portland? They will be le contenders each and every year as long as Duncan is playing. If that's not good enough for you, you need to either lower your expectations or find that elusive dominant team that wins every year. Hint: you won't find such a team.
They had their last shot a loooonnnnnggg time ago.Philadelphia
The next Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, etc..... will retire with no rings and be remembered as one of the better players never to have tasted the champagne.K.G.
Hmmmmm, what happens in the 2008 off-season? Oh yeah, everbody but the core doesn't have a contract. As alluded to earlier by others, the previous championship teams have had some gray beards on them and managed to reload and stay compe ive.San Antonio
At best, the Spurs have two more seasons to seriously challenge for another championship. At worst, Bowen's game goes quickly downhill, and this season will be do or die.
Carter would do well to stay with Kidd who has resurrected Carter's reputation after New Jersey salvaged his career from Toronto. But go ahead Vinsanity, go to Orlando and fall off the radar the remainder of your career.New Jersey
Carter is making noises about opting out of his contract at season's end and signing with Orlando.
Anybody else remember how this guy was considered to have as bright a future as Tony Parker during their rookie seasons? Some Indiana fans regularly came in here and ran smack about how Tinsley was the better find in the draft. Yeah, sure.Jamaal Tinsley is a loser
Sounds about right to me.Denver
It's now or never for the Nuggets. And the smart money is on the latter possibility.
Kenyon Martin is a fraud. Earl Boykins gives away more than he contributes. Will Marcus Camby's next physical breakdown be his last? Joe Smith is the oldest 31-year-old on the planet. George Karl's endless mind games, perpetual emphasis on full-speed-ahead offense and his profound disregard for defense may be successful for short stretches, but are counter-productive over the long haul.
One more season of could-haves should-haves, and might-haves will just leave the Nuggets mired in mediocrity.
There's that word again in the same sentence with Larry Hughes.Larry Hughes is an erratic shooter and a risk-taker on defense, but has the potential of developing into a passable partner for LeBron.
Probably is their last shot for a while.Detroit
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